Clark
Hello, everyone out there and welcome once again to the Soldiers of Cinema podcast. I'm Clark Coffey and with me as always, is Mr. Cullen McFater. Hello, Hello, Hello. Thank you, everybody, for joining us. Thank you, Cohen, for being here. As always, I'm excited. We are at episode four zero, the Big four. Oh, I. I can't believe we've made it this far.
00:00:37:13 - 00:01:05:11
Clark
Yeah, how exciting. But today we're going to be discussing Colin's pick 1973 film by Robert Altman, The Long Goodbye. Mm hmm. I This is the first time I've seen the film. Colin is. You're right. Yes. You mentioned. Yeah. I always love it when. When I'm introduced to a new film. Of course. I'm very familiar with Altman. I've seen many of his films, but I had not seen this one somehow just escape me.
00:01:05:16 - 00:01:31:12
Clark
So whenever I. Whenever you told me that was the film you wanted to discuss, I was pretty excited and I have to say I really enjoyed it. I watched it a couple of times actually, and yeah, I'm looking forward to discussing it. Let's jump in. I'm curious to know why you picked the film when you first saw it and what that experience was, because I have to admit I was a little bit surprised.
00:01:31:12 - 00:01:43:17
Clark
Not that not that I should be, because, you know, I always kind of have part of my head. I'm always like, Colin, you know, is in his early twenties, not to give too much personal information away about someone.
00:01:43:19 - 00:01:44:08
Cullen
Going to get my.
00:01:45:14 - 00:02:13:16
Clark
Butt, but but, you know, it's like, you know, this is a 1973 film. Certainly Altman, of course, is a known entity, a very popular director if you're if you're a film buff. But but maybe not so much if you, you know, watch Marvel movies. And that's kind of the extent of your film experience. Of course, I know that's not you, but nonetheless, I was I was surprised to hear this was your pick.
00:02:13:16 - 00:02:19:03
Clark
So, yeah. Why don't you tell us a little bit about your experience with the film first time around and why you picked it?
00:02:20:03 - 00:02:34:17
Cullen
Yeah, I first saw this movie I think is right at the end of high school. Um, and I, I don't know, there was something just about it that I really liked, I think, back then, which we can definitely get into in more detail later, I was really getting into like PTA.
00:02:34:17 - 00:02:35:13
Clark
And all.
00:02:36:04 - 00:02:45:16
Cullen
That kind of thing. And so I think that was likely. I don't remember specifically, but I think that was the reason I actually went back and watched this was just because PTA sites, that is one of his favorites.
00:02:45:23 - 00:02:46:07
Clark
Right.
00:02:46:17 - 00:02:47:07
Cullen
And you can really.
00:02:47:07 - 00:02:50:13
Clark
See now this film specifically or just Altman in general, is.
00:02:51:01 - 00:02:55:03
Cullen
Altman in general. But also, I think he's discussed this film specifically.
00:02:55:03 - 00:02:55:09
Clark
You don't.
00:02:55:09 - 00:02:56:09
Cullen
Caucasians. Yeah.
00:02:56:23 - 00:03:00:07
Clark
And you can see that. You can see affluence and we'll talk about that later.
00:03:00:07 - 00:03:28:01
Cullen
But yeah, totally. Yeah, yeah. So, so you can you can absolutely see the influence. And I think the reason why I liked it was just because it, it feels very different. You know, it's not by any means like arthouse or anything like that, but it's, it's like laid back in a weird way, you know. Yeah, I've heard this movie compared to Chinatown a lot, and which would have been even more, you know, relevant had this movie originally as it was supposed to be set in the 1940s.
00:03:28:01 - 00:03:28:13
Clark
It was.
00:03:28:18 - 00:03:31:19
Cullen
Set then. There would definitely be much more of a through line.
00:03:31:19 - 00:03:33:09
Clark
But they kept the car though.
00:03:33:09 - 00:03:35:12
Cullen
They kept Carlos they did keep his car. Yeah. Yeah.
00:03:35:12 - 00:03:45:21
Clark
Which I think is like a it's a, it's a like it's a late forties I think maybe a 48 Lincoln Cabriolet. I think that's correct. So they kept the car. Yeah.
00:03:46:12 - 00:04:00:00
Cullen
But, and so I think it was just the Yeah. The way that the movie is like the flow and the vibe of the movie just are, are very different. It's very like it doesn't rush through anything. It's not a very long movie. It's only an hour and 53 minutes, I think. Yeah.
00:04:00:17 - 00:04:03:00
Clark
It almost doesn't under Andrews, it almost has, Yeah.
00:04:03:05 - 00:04:19:18
Cullen
It almost just kind of like very much. I think the film itself embodies the character of Marlowe in the way that like he often seems very relaxed, very cool, calm and collected almost in some scenes. And I think this is a positive, but I've heard people complaining about this as well. Like he almost seems like he just doesn't want to be there.
00:04:19:22 - 00:04:21:17
Cullen
Yeah, which I think is hilarious.
00:04:21:22 - 00:04:29:12
Clark
This is kind of floating through. So what did. Yeah, and it really feels like that. So on your first, you did it it grabbed you. Did you, Were you.
00:04:29:12 - 00:04:52:09
Cullen
Yeah. Honestly, I mean, this is only the second time I've seen it. I think. Okay. And in its entirety I've watched moments and stuff like that when I teach and stuff. Sure. But, but no, weirdly enough, I don't think I had much of a different reaction this time than I did the first time I watched it. There wasn't really anything new that jumped out at me, not in a negative sense, but it just more in a sense that I.
00:04:52:09 - 00:04:57:20
Cullen
I felt pretty much on par with what I felt the last time and now.
00:04:57:20 - 00:05:17:13
Clark
But I think. Yeah, go ahead. Let me ask before not to cut you off there. I'm sorry, but before it kind of it slipped my mind and I forget. I'm curious. So, so, so PTA this obviously like a current contemporary filmmaker, so it's clear why you'd be exposed to his films. So you see that this is an inspiration.
00:05:17:13 - 00:05:38:13
Clark
You go and check it out. I love doing that too, and you like it. But you said just then that you actually use some aspects of this in your teaching. I'm just curious, could you kind of share maybe what is it about this film? Are there some scenes that you share with your students? Are there certain aspects of the film that you kind of use to highlight certain things for your students?
00:05:38:13 - 00:05:41:09
Clark
I'd just be curious to know a little bit more about that. Yeah, there's the.
00:05:41:09 - 00:06:03:01
Cullen
Element of, um, I think one of the key elements that I've used this movie for is just like the flow of camerawork that Altman never likes to keep in know. And that's again, another point that he makes himself, that he never wants to keep the camera still in it. But yeah, and before I even knew that that was really an intention of his, I always kind of noticed that, Yeah, there's so many scenes where you just feel like the scene is moving.
00:06:03:01 - 00:06:07:15
Cullen
It almost feels like montage in a weird way.
00:06:07:15 - 00:06:09:15
Clark
Like it's almost very organic.
00:06:09:15 - 00:06:25:16
Cullen
Yeah, it's like everything is constantly flowing forward, but not in a way that makes it feel like it's rushed, but more so that it just there's this natural kind of ebb and flow to that. I would say even like the first half hour of the movie just feels like it's like one thing just flowing into the next, into the next, into the next.
00:06:25:20 - 00:07:00:19
Cullen
Yeah. And so I think that kind of at least for me, whenever I've taught and usually I only keep this kind of for the more like advanced, like older classes because it's kind of a just kind of a little higher level thing. But it's, it's kind of the marrying of camerawork and storytelling in a very fundamental level like so not necessarily in a way that it's like this this camera movement is showing us what this character thinks, but rather that the camera movement itself is, is if you were to shoot this movie a different way, I don't think that that it would work if you kept everything else would be identical.
00:07:00:19 - 00:07:17:05
Cullen
But if you didn't move the camera, if you just kept it still or just shot it in a different way, yeah, it would feel completely different. And so there's definitely a lot in there that I think is necessary in a weird, which I think, you know, most things in a movie are usually the choices that are made.
00:07:17:08 - 00:07:18:08
Clark
It's conscious. Yeah, if.
00:07:18:08 - 00:07:28:10
Cullen
It's but yeah, it's definitely like the, the way that the camera's moving, the way I think back to the first time you see the, the guard, the guard house guy that does the impressions.
00:07:29:00 - 00:07:30:09
Clark
Yeah. I love that character.
00:07:30:15 - 00:07:49:08
Cullen
Yeah. Yeah. When he's seeing Terry out, when he's kind of like saying goodbye to him right at the beginning. Right. The opening montage and it's like you're, you're pushing in on him and you're, you're zooming in on Terry in the car, and then you're pulling out on the guard again. And then Terry drives away, and it's like the movie is just constantly.
00:07:49:12 - 00:07:50:08
Clark
Decomposing.
00:07:50:08 - 00:08:04:19
Cullen
Like it's moving. And for and that it's it's there's always like this kinetic flow to it, which I really like. Yeah. But that's just something that really caught on to me when I first saw it and something that I've, I think subconsciously kind of adopted and things that I've made as well. So. Sure.
00:08:05:01 - 00:08:35:01
Clark
Well, it's I mean, I think it is interesting to note, you know, and we were going to touch and expand upon so many more. So but, you know, some of the aspects that you've just talked about more as we go through this, But I think the film really stands out today. Now, it it when it was made in 73, man, you know, you and I were just quickly before this podcast, we're kind of reminding ourselves of what films were released, you know, around this film, you know, where where where did this film sit?
00:08:35:23 - 00:08:43:06
Clark
You know? Yeah. Among other films in 1973. And it's like mindblowing, the amount of good films that were.
00:08:43:13 - 00:08:43:19
Cullen
Oh, it's.
00:08:43:19 - 00:09:03:11
Clark
Insane in North America, 1973. I mean, wow, You know, it's like it just as a kind of reminder to people out there to kind of put you back in the context of what kind of films, you know, the studios were releasing in 1973 in North America. I mean, The Sting and The Exorcist were the two most commercially successful films.
00:09:03:18 - 00:09:33:06
Clark
I think both films are also artistically fantastic films. But you've got Lucas with American Graffiti, you've got Scorsese with Mean Streets, you've got Malick with Badlands. And I mean, you could go on and on and on, but certainly oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, Serpico with Al Pacino. I mean, there's just it's like mind blowing. I mean, and I always, I, I, the seventies is definitely my favorite era for film.
00:09:33:16 - 00:09:46:16
Clark
And this film was surrounded by a lot of really extraordinary films in 1973. But and maybe, maybe that's why it wasn't a huge critical or commercial success. Yeah, it didn't.
00:09:46:22 - 00:09:48:12
Cullen
It was technically a flop.
00:09:48:18 - 00:10:09:02
Clark
Yeah, I didn't make it, so I didn't make its budget back and definitely had mixed reviews. And I almost wonder if, you know, what you just described, that that kind of that organic kind of meandering kind of floaty flow where this where and it's not just camera work. You really you really did touch on something that I think's key.
00:10:10:06 - 00:10:37:21
Clark
I think a lot of times camera and story are not integrated really well, Right? Yeah. It's just like, well, we're going to put a camera here and it's kind of arbitrary and it's going to capture what's happening. Right. And and, and the camera's not fully utilized as a storytelling device in a lot of film, and especially especially in a lot of TV, because TV doesn't have the time and it doesn't have the budget.
00:10:37:21 - 00:11:01:07
Clark
And TV's a writer's medium and you have a different director every episode in a lot of instances. So so I think unfortunately we're used to the camera not being a very big part of the storytelling in today's day and age. In my in my opinion, and I think it's really one of the big difference between true cinema and just kind of like, you know, moving pictures.
00:11:01:08 - 00:11:16:22
Cullen
Story. Oh, totally. You know, it's really it's always been really bizarre to me. The, you know, and again, it's definitely a style of directing, but it's one of those styles, a director that I've always been a bit confused about, which is the hands off the camera. I don't mean literally hands on, like I don't think that.
00:11:17:01 - 00:11:19:00
Clark
Well, you mean like a laissez faire attitude?
00:11:19:00 - 00:11:26:06
Cullen
Yeah, but yeah, I know many directors who just don't involve themselves in the movement of the camera or in the framing of a shot at all.
00:11:26:06 - 00:11:26:23
Clark
Yeah, that's crazy.
00:11:26:23 - 00:11:53:00
Cullen
You know, Which is, you know, they'll. They'll go and work with actors, which is very much important as well. But I've always thought that that to me, you know, the big part of being a director is, is balancing everything. Of course, being able to, you know, and because it's not, you know, I think also people I think the biggest mistake and you know, not to get into filmmaking one on one but I think a big mistake that a lot of people make when they're trying to make movies is that they compartmentalize.
00:11:53:12 - 00:11:57:00
Cullen
So they go like, okay, now I'm going to go work with the actors and then I'm going to go work.
00:11:57:00 - 00:11:57:08
Clark
With the cast.
00:11:57:09 - 00:12:05:00
Cullen
Now, going to forget I'm going to go talk to the art department, and it's like, No, all of those things should be happening simultaneously and they all have to come. Yeah, it's.
00:12:05:00 - 00:12:31:08
Clark
Very and let's face it, I mean, that's it's a real challenge, you know? Yeah. And I think that that's, you know, in most other aspects of our lives, right. We're kind of taught like to compartmentalize things. Yeah. Yeah. You handle issue a and then now you move on to handle issue B and I think and I think it's it's a way that a lot of people think, which is a linear step, step by step manner is the way I think many people that's kind of the way many people's brains are organized.
00:12:31:12 - 00:12:41:07
Clark
Yeah. And I think, you know, if you happen to have a brain that's organized in a very holistic way where every you see everything is being interconnected and look.
00:12:41:07 - 00:12:42:11
Cullen
At the bigger picture kind of thing.
00:12:42:11 - 00:13:04:09
Clark
Yeah. And, and I think that that's a challenging way to go through life, not to digress too far into kind of some like philosophy of, you know, of thinking or something, you know, But I feel like, I feel like it can be a challenging way to think because it can take you a long time to wrap your head around things initially because because everything is connected to you.
00:13:04:09 - 00:13:26:23
Clark
So you kind of you have to consume so much information, but once you do wrap your head around it, it's like, wow, you've got this extraordinary understanding and it's and it's deep and interconnected and you can you can kind of see all the moving pieces. I think, you know, this film very much requires that if you really want to maximize the medium's potential for storytelling.
00:13:26:23 - 00:13:41:05
Clark
But but I just wanted to say, I think this is this film is a great example of not only does the camera work, not only does the cinematography really support the the tone, the vibe, if you will.
00:13:41:08 - 00:13:42:02
Cullen
Which I think is such.
00:13:42:02 - 00:13:42:10
Clark
A huge.
00:13:42:11 - 00:13:46:11
Cullen
Story, more so than I think anything we've done otherwise, like that tone.
00:13:46:13 - 00:14:09:02
Clark
And but so does it. So do the performances, especially, and specifically Gould's performance. So Elliott Gould plays Philip marlowe, who is the lead of this film. But we'll get to get to that a little bit more about his performance and the cinematography and the way the story is told are so in line with each other. They flow in these and these parallel lines that just really complemented each other.
00:14:09:06 - 00:14:11:00
Clark
And it's rare to see it's and I.
00:14:11:00 - 00:14:20:14
Cullen
Think it's a testament to Altman's positivity, if that makes sense, that like Altman seemed to be very good friends with most of the people he made this movie with.
00:14:20:19 - 00:14:21:03
Clark
Okay.
00:14:21:18 - 00:14:39:07
Cullen
Or at least got along with them very well. There's not really many stories about, you know, fights or anything on the set, even to the point that Sterling Hayden and Elliott Gould, most of their dialog was adlibbed because Sterling Hayden was like stoned the whole time. But but Altman loved it. Like he was completely blown away.
00:14:39:07 - 00:14:55:06
Clark
By why, no. Altman. Altman did did encourage and did like, you know, improvization and and you know, they would often actors would in rehearsals would, would work on Improvizations and kind of work things up. So, you know, and I definitely was open.
00:14:55:12 - 00:15:20:04
Cullen
Yeah. And in, in I think almost not necessarily stark contrast but the the way that Sigman does the lighting in this movie is so super naturalistic like you don't get it's very look at something like Close Encounters which I think is another really well shot movie There's still you still get like when someone's inside there's there's a light that is you know illuminating them so that you can see their face.
00:15:20:04 - 00:15:40:12
Cullen
Whereas the amount of times in this movie that you're like in a day interior and it's just a bright, bright window behind the actor and you can hardly see the features of their face or, you know, I'm thinking of the moment, too, when when Marlowe goes in with then the guy sitting in the piano playing along and he's like sitting at that bar making the phone call and it's like, there's almost no light on on camera side of his face.
00:15:40:12 - 00:16:05:22
Cullen
It's almost just the entirety of the backlight from the window. Right. Which I think I mean, I'm a big fan of that. Look, the unfortunate thing is that the transfer, I think both me and you saw, is is definitely an age transfer. Oh, yeah. Definitely is not the full potential of what this movie could be. And you can tell that it was done on like a little bit of an older scanner probably again, similarly to when we talked about Butch Cassidy, the Sundance Kid, where you probably had it right when things were being sort of transferred.
00:16:05:22 - 00:16:13:20
Cullen
It was probably done because it's very you know, I think the color timing is off the there's definitely not a depth.
00:16:14:12 - 00:16:18:09
Clark
There is soft, but it's it's really soft. And again, we talked about.
00:16:18:15 - 00:16:21:21
Cullen
Areas that are saturated, I think incorrectly and.
00:16:21:22 - 00:16:26:00
Clark
Inconsistent grain and damage and full on dirt.
00:16:26:00 - 00:16:27:11
Cullen
And lots of dust, lots of hairs.
00:16:27:12 - 00:16:32:23
Clark
And and even a significant piece of damage that last for a good 30.
00:16:33:02 - 00:16:34:18
Cullen
The whole shot. Yeah that little white.
00:16:34:18 - 00:16:46:14
Clark
Yeah yeah yeah and of course that that has nothing to do with the film of course that's like that does it. That's not a reflection on the film. Sadly though and I film this, I feel this is worthy of something like a Criterion Collection release would be.
00:16:46:14 - 00:16:48:03
Cullen
Yeah, restoration release. Yeah.
00:16:48:16 - 00:16:58:16
Clark
And I hope that, that they do that. But I saw this here in the United States on the Criterion streaming service. You I think saw it on iTunes. That correct.
00:16:58:16 - 00:16:59:20
Cullen
Yeah I rented at the Apple.
00:16:59:20 - 00:17:14:17
Clark
You read it if you your iTunes and it sounds like that there's this only this one transfer sadly and I don't think that there's any HD or a Blu ray release physical media that's currently in print.
00:17:15:00 - 00:17:26:06
Cullen
Yeah that's widely available. Yeah. Yes there's there are some but they go for like 6070 bucks. Yeah. And I think the reason that we're pointing this out is just to say that the film is a really beautiful film that deserves.
00:17:26:06 - 00:17:35:13
Clark
Don't let the transfer for you. Yeah, yeah. And hey, if anybody out there listening, it happens to work at, you know, at Criterion. Come on. Yes. Get us reports and make.
00:17:36:10 - 00:17:37:16
Cullen
This and Cassidy, please.
00:17:37:19 - 00:17:39:09
Clark
Yeah, yeah. But no.
00:17:39:10 - 00:17:46:04
Cullen
And I think it's important to mention, too, because I think a lot of people are turned off by older movies when they see something and they're like, Oh, it's so flat and a little contrast.
00:17:46:04 - 00:17:47:07
Clark
Why is it so mushy?
00:17:47:07 - 00:18:01:21
Cullen
Yeah, the film doesn't look like that. It's just that the transfer looks like that and it's a shame. You know, it really is something that, that could I, in my opinion, quite easily be done. It's just that is you know, as anything demands. Is there a market for.
00:18:01:21 - 00:18:23:08
Clark
Is there a market. Yeah. And I agree and I want a little bit of a sidestep here, but I want to mention it before I forget because it is it's related. I'll I'm going to I'm going to make a stretch here. It's related to the cinematography is a related to how it how it looks. I, I love love, love, love films that where the Los Angeles is a character.
00:18:23:08 - 00:18:55:06
Clark
And I feel like that's the case in this film to some extent, especially in other eras. So I love that there's like a little bit of a snapshot of L.A. in the early seventies. I actually lived just across the 101 on North Cuenca from where Marlowe's apartment actually is in real life, where it was shot on location, which is a really unique space where you've got that that elevator that has to kind of take you up the side of the hill and you've got a series of homes or apartments up there.
00:18:55:21 - 00:19:21:06
Clark
That's actually a real place. And it's not a set. Yeah, it's not a set. And I think most of this is shot on location, if not all of it. I'm pretty sure the entire film was shot on location in Los Angeles. Exteriors, interiors. I didn't see anything that that smacked me of set or anything, but but I just love, you know, Hollywood in the seventies, having lived really close to there and having seen some of these play the.
00:19:21:06 - 00:19:22:03
Cullen
Grimy ness of.
00:19:22:03 - 00:19:47:00
Clark
In-Person. I just love it, man. I mean, look, L.A. is a place people either love it or hate it. If you are a film fan and if you ever had any dreams of being in the industry, L.A. probably holds a really special place in your heart. Because everywhere you look, there's something about cinema. Some film has been shot practically on every street, you know, on every street corner in the city and every, you know.
00:19:47:06 - 00:19:51:13
Clark
So there's just so much allure, so many stories. So just a quick sidestep there. I digress.
00:19:51:13 - 00:19:58:14
Cullen
But but no, but it's I mean, it's definitely I would say the that the city is in a lot of ways like a character in this movie in its own.
00:19:58:21 - 00:20:20:13
Clark
Yeah. Because the vibe I mean I think that, you know, even the production design, right? The location is just so perfect. You've got this, you know, it's just, it's so unique and it kind of almost takes you into another little world, you know? Marlowe has to kind of go up this elevator. His apartment is pretty unique. It's like it's small.
00:20:20:17 - 00:20:40:21
Clark
It's got that totally like, I mean, if you've ever lived in an old apartment in L.A., so many of these homes were built in like the twenties, thirties. And there are these, you know, little kind of cottages, bungalows, kinda. It's like that vibe just comes right off of his apartment. Yeah. Yeah. And you've got his neighbors, which cracked me up.
00:20:41:03 - 00:20:49:07
Clark
Yeah. Yoga. Yoga. Women like the yoga women who are always on, like, hash brownies or acid or. Yeah, the a subtheme.
00:20:50:03 - 00:21:04:04
Cullen
It's kind of again, that's what's so like. I think that even exudes the whole feeling of the movie as well that like those characters are such a part of the movie without really being a part of the movie like that. There's not and it's accurate.
00:21:04:04 - 00:21:05:18
Clark
Like, yeah, I mean, maybe not.
00:21:05:18 - 00:21:10:05
Cullen
Just it's really great set dressing in a way. Like it's like it just yeah.
00:21:10:08 - 00:21:31:11
Clark
It was even it's, it's, it's a part of a whole of, you know, kind of communicating a feel but doing it visually. Yes, but, but this is kind of L.A. like if you lived in that area today, you're going to like your neighbors are likely going to be some really eccentric, unique people. And I mean, this is one of the things that I love about Los Angeles.
00:21:31:11 - 00:21:51:18
Clark
But, you know, this is not Iowa suburbs. This is like it's it's and, you know, Barlow's attitude towards them where he's totally nonplused, you know, I mean, it's he doesn't even, you know, think anything about it. That's like the way you get if you live in L.A. because this like just eccentric people everywhere, which is fantastic. I love it.
00:21:51:18 - 00:21:52:06
Clark
You know, what's.
00:21:52:06 - 00:22:12:20
Cullen
Also interesting to me about this movie is that it you know, we've talked a lot. We've we've tried to do, I think movies that are unique and or movies that we love from from, you know, especially from different eras. And this to me, I think perhaps more so than anything else we've done, is a movie I don't think could ever be made today.
00:22:13:09 - 00:22:14:18
Clark
Um, oh, sadly.
00:22:15:02 - 00:22:26:12
Cullen
Yeah. I think that a movie like this and again, to kind of bring back PTA, perhaps the closest we've gotten recently was Inherent Vice, which even then is a very different feel to this movie.
00:22:26:12 - 00:22:28:23
Clark
But I don't even think Inherent Vice could be made today.
00:22:29:15 - 00:22:31:06
Cullen
Oh yeah, perhaps not. I mean, perhaps.
00:22:31:06 - 00:22:41:11
Clark
We're not on that budget, not on 70 millimeter. I don't think on that budget. I really don't. I think what what did what, what what what film did PTA come off of? I'm trying to remember.
00:22:41:12 - 00:22:45:13
Cullen
I think it was just the master that he had done okay. And he did Inherent Vice. They wouldn't even.
00:22:45:18 - 00:22:49:11
Clark
Rent. I can't remember how commercially successful the Master was, but I think it did quite well.
00:22:49:14 - 00:22:52:05
Cullen
The master was quite. And then here Inherent Vice I don't think did.
00:22:52:05 - 00:23:11:02
Clark
Not very yeah so I think you know Paul Thomas Anderson coming off of there will be blood and coming off the master commercially successful very successful Yeah and I think you know the studio gave him money for it here Vice because of that but I don't I mean I almost wonder if you'd have that kind of budget for that film to date.
00:23:11:02 - 00:23:31:12
Clark
Yeah, much less. I'm agreeing with you, much less this film today. And you and I talked about this and I think it's an interesting just not only would this movie be very difficult to make at this budget and be released theatrically, but Elliott Gould, as a leading man, I almost wonder if that could happen today. Yeah.
00:23:31:21 - 00:23:49:13
Cullen
Yeah, he's in that. I've always again said that this like there's this kind of, um, I guess league of like everyman that aren't, you know, supermodels, which is like the writers, the Elliott Gould you know, even some of.
00:23:49:13 - 00:23:51:02
Clark
These pretty standard. I mean it.
00:23:51:07 - 00:24:02:18
Cullen
Was a very common thing. Yeah. And for some reason nowadays you can't, it's like a lost art. Like you can't have your main character not be.
00:24:02:18 - 00:24:29:08
Clark
Not be Tom Cruise. Brad Pitt. Yeah, yeah. All these, like, I don't even know their names. Sorry. Like all these Marvel Marvel studs who were like, you know, super ripped in 6% body fat and, you know, oh, whatever. You know, it seems like every leading man almost. It's like the Tom Cruise ification of leading men where, you know, everybody's got to be ripped and buff and beautiful, it seems.
00:24:29:08 - 00:24:37:07
Clark
Yeah. Now, to be fair, though, to be fair, we're whining about this. But, you know, this is a situation that women have experienced in film.
00:24:37:17 - 00:24:39:09
Cullen
Oh, absolutely. Since inception.
00:24:39:09 - 00:25:13:05
Clark
Since it's since the art forms. Inception. So here we are whining and moaning about how leading men have to be these extraordinarily externally beautiful creatures. Well, hey, I mean, sadly, that's been the case for women times ten. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, hopefully there will be there will continue to this will improve somehow for for all people and I personally prefer like unique eccentric, you know, both externally and internally performers and performances.
00:25:14:06 - 00:25:15:15
Cullen
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
00:25:15:18 - 00:25:34:00
Clark
So but it's you know, Elliott Gould has such a you know, I am not how I want to make sure it's not that I'm not a fan. I'm just I just don't know too much about him, you know, outside of his films with Altman MASH and this film, and I think he might have been in one or two others.
00:25:34:19 - 00:25:39:12
Clark
I mean, honestly, my exposure to him is not that great. But I thought he was fantastic in this film.
00:25:39:12 - 00:25:39:20
Cullen
Oh, he's.
00:25:39:20 - 00:25:40:04
Clark
Great.
00:25:40:04 - 00:25:46:20
Cullen
I did those things again where it's like you feel like you just feel like he landed in this role so perfectly.
00:25:47:06 - 00:26:17:12
Clark
Yeah, I love his little asides. And this is this is a big part too. And we can we can kind of jump into this maybe. Who knows? We'll sprinkle it in. But sound design. Sound design is obviously a huge part of Altman's direction. I think that he kind of pioneered to some extent, right, Like some like multitrack audio recording, hiding mikes on actors and running a lot of different tracks at once so that we can record overlapping dialog but still get it cleanly.
00:26:18:15 - 00:26:23:15
Cullen
So that's super necessary in this, especially considering that like Elliott Gould, half his lines are delivered like under his breath.
00:26:23:15 - 00:26:25:14
Clark
Under his breath. So they're super.
00:26:25:14 - 00:26:25:23
Cullen
Low.
00:26:25:23 - 00:26:33:20
Clark
Yeah, right. And you know, and I don't know, I'll ask maybe, you know, maybe you don't, but I'd be kind of curious if there's any ADR in here and to what extent there's any ADR.
00:26:33:20 - 00:26:34:20
Cullen
And I'm not sure.
00:26:34:20 - 00:26:37:00
Clark
Yeah, I couldn't tell, but I know.
00:26:37:03 - 00:26:42:16
Cullen
That's the other shame about this movie is that there's not really a lot of like beats like features making out of.
00:26:42:17 - 00:26:43:10
Clark
Criterion.
00:26:43:10 - 00:26:44:22
Cullen
Like we need new material.
00:26:44:22 - 00:27:09:09
Clark
Yeah, yeah, we need your criterion. I mean, please. Yeah. My, my hunch is that there probably wouldn't be a lot I from my understanding of, you know, how important sound was to Altman and how, how I mean, and you and I, and I'm sure you as a teacher and I've, you know, I've been through this myself, and we talk about this a lot as we kind of share advice and talk to other aspiring filmmakers, You know, how important sound is.
00:27:09:16 - 00:27:31:07
Clark
And I think every every budding filmmaker has a story where, you know, the first project they ever work on, you know, they spend all this time working on the visuals and you you, you neglect the sound to your own serious detriment. And when you're, you know, you start putting it together, you realize, oh, my God, sound is really, really, really, really important.
00:27:31:19 - 00:27:43:12
Cullen
I mean, again, plaster mics, wherever you can get as much as you can. That's, that's and that is clearly pretty much something that Robert Altman invented. And I think that that's something that has become the norm.
00:27:43:13 - 00:27:44:07
Clark
And which is.
00:27:44:08 - 00:28:00:02
Cullen
That you get as wide an array of sound and backups of sound and, you know, everything you can just to make it sound very good. Because that's one thing I will say about this movie, even though it does have that very seventies feel of sound where it's like there's a little bit of like kind of little staticky.
00:28:00:02 - 00:28:03:14
Clark
And it's not it's not perfect fidelity. Yeah, but it is.
00:28:03:15 - 00:28:16:14
Cullen
But it does have again, I think that those exactly were technological limitations of the time. No, not creative faults of the craft. Exactly. And it sounds great, like I would say even even making that point that it still sounds.
00:28:16:17 - 00:28:19:18
Clark
Just imagine a nice lossless track criterion.
00:28:19:18 - 00:28:20:07
Cullen
Oh, my God.
00:28:20:07 - 00:28:38:21
Clark
We had No, but but yeah, but that, you know, I am not an Altman scholar, but even I know that, you know, especially with MASH and McCabe and Mrs. Miller with this film, I mean, he really put a lot of time and effort into sound, into how his actors were recorded. And I can only imagine how wonderful that would be.
00:28:38:21 - 00:28:54:11
Clark
I mean, that if you have ever acted on camera, sound could be a big limiting factor to your performance if you if you don't have. Now, thankfully, digital recorders are improving 32 bit performers where.
00:28:54:12 - 00:28:55:09
Cullen
They're doing life savers.
00:28:55:18 - 00:29:09:21
Clark
And life saving. You don't have as near a big as near as near a big of an issue with clipping. But but you've got to be really careful with your voice as an actor on camera. Yeah, not that you don't ever have to be. I mean, of course, even on stage you have to be careful with your voice.
00:29:09:21 - 00:29:42:16
Clark
But the dynamic range is limited to a great extent by the technology of, you know, the recording technology that's being used to record you. And so that can be limited in your performance. So to have a director who is, you know, taking that into account and who is freed you up to be able to use like the full dynamic range of your voice, of your volume and to not have to worry about just standing in one specific corner so that you're, you know, one specific tiny little mark so that your audio can be properly recorded as really free.
00:29:42:16 - 00:29:57:04
Clark
And I imagine with such a fluid camera, right, with so much recomposition, with so much camera movement, I can't imagine being a boom operator there trying to capture all of this. It just wouldn't work, you know? So it really frees you up to be able to.
00:29:57:06 - 00:30:06:05
Cullen
I'm curious because obviously, you know, wireless labs wouldn't have anything at this point. So I'm curious to know if they were mad miking the actors, it would have likely just had to be wired.
00:30:06:18 - 00:30:08:00
Clark
It's a good question, right?
00:30:08:00 - 00:30:25:11
Cullen
I would think that would also be another limiting aspect, but perhaps in a weird way, a freeing aspect. Like perhaps they just had the cables that were long enough to do that or I don't know if that's also what I mean, where I'm saying like that it would be so nice to be able to see. Yeah, some just supplement your material, even just people talking about.
00:30:25:12 - 00:30:35:18
Clark
We'll just imagine it. I just, I just imagine that that Elliott Gould had wired labs like Hidden and he just had like a 30 foot cable that just, like, ran down his pant leg and he'd just have.
00:30:35:18 - 00:30:37:18
Cullen
To he'd be pranked. Some would just pull it sometimes.
00:30:38:08 - 00:30:59:19
Clark
But it's a good question. You know, I've, I have I've only worked with Wired Labs myself in an interview which in which situations I prefer them because I don't want to introduce the risk, the variable of the wireless being. Yeah, but yeah, I've only worked with wireless labs and of course booms in actual narrative filming situations. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:30:59:20 - 00:31:27:23
Clark
So, so yeah, that would be interesting. But that I mean, especially back then with analog Recorders recording multi-track was much more difficult. I mean, it was no small task to record good audio back then, no small task. So major, major innovations from Altman and yeah, and really I think if you, if you're an aspiring filmmaker and sound is an area that you kind of want some inspiration on, I say definitely check out his films because.
00:31:28:00 - 00:31:49:19
Cullen
I think that the other thing too is that when we say sound design, we're not necessarily talking about like fully or the creation of like sound effects. Like, so, you know, if you think of like blow with the Palm where it was like, you know, a revolution in doing like an incredible stuff with with post sound. FOLEY This is just about getting really, really good sound on set correctly.
00:31:50:06 - 00:32:11:06
Cullen
And I think if you're interested in sound watch watch all of that, yeah, you should you should kind of have a wide breadth of it. But, but yeah, it really is. And it's something that is, you know, again, as with anything with sound, you kind of subconsciously notice it. Like it's not like you're sitting there going like, man, the, you know, the lab work on this is really great because good sound, you should be able to, you shouldn't really notice it.
00:32:11:11 - 00:32:30:18
Cullen
Right. And but I think that that is also one of the things that it does, like, if you will, there's few and far between movies from that era that sound this good. Even The Godfather. There's plenty of moments in The Godfather, which was made, you know, The Godfather two came out or Godfather two came out after this and Godfather one a year prior.
00:32:30:23 - 00:32:38:10
Cullen
Right. Right. That there are moments in The Godfather where you can tell that they kind of had to crank some stuff, some gain to.
00:32:39:06 - 00:32:39:10
Clark
The.
00:32:39:10 - 00:32:58:14
Cullen
Actors and and little bit are you know, I think that The Godfather has incredible sound design as well. But you can definitely tell why Altman's method of doing this this way became such a standard in the industry of just like loading up as many mikes as you could to make sure that you caught every dynamic sound in every single.
00:32:58:18 - 00:33:15:18
Clark
Well, I think it's still better, frankly, that a lot of films. Honestly. Yeah. Yeah. Not not from like a purely technical perspective because of of course recorders and microphones have come a long way since then. I mean, that's I'm not talking about that, but I mean, the artistic content of how things are recorded, I think that the.
00:33:15:18 - 00:33:17:07
Cullen
Director was so involved in it.
00:33:17:07 - 00:33:39:12
Clark
And, and that and that you know, that that overlapping audio for which he's so known really is a huge part of this flow that you and I keep coming back to and talking about, which is so indicative of this film and and and his best films. This it's not just a fluid camera. It's not just the the performances that are seem seamless.
00:33:39:12 - 00:34:10:04
Clark
Right. But it's this it's the audio, it's overlapping audio. It's you know, it's Marlowe talking to himself under his breath and we can hear it and it doesn't sound ADR or cheesy or kind of, you know, plugged in after the fact. It sounds organic. And that takes us from one scene to the other. It's this running commentary that kind of and this inner dialog that Altman is able to present for our main character, which of course is kind of who we're seeing this whole film from.
00:34:10:05 - 00:34:18:05
Cullen
Well, you even think about the moment when Marlowe is being interrogated in the police station. It's like you've got two people on one side of the glass having a conversation. Then you have Marlowe on the other side of the glass being interrogated, and.
00:34:18:05 - 00:34:18:16
Clark
It's a.
00:34:18:16 - 00:34:26:08
Cullen
Conversation. It doesn't ever feel disjointed. It doesn't feel like every moment feels like it's supposed to be there, like it flows.
00:34:26:08 - 00:34:46:05
Clark
There's so many more cuts in this film that I felt then that I notice, honestly. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, there's a couple there's a couple of cuts that, you know, in my opinion, when when something's put together pretty well, usually that means you don't notice the cuts. They're not obtrusive, they're not fancy. There's a couple there's a couple that I feel were a little weird.
00:34:46:05 - 00:35:10:21
Clark
Let let's talk about this a little bit. Sure. Yeah. And I understand there's technical limitations. It's almost kind of like a you know, it's like a stunt shot or kind of like a special effects shot. They've got some sugar glass or something. But the the cut where the coke bottle is smashed into this poor woman's face by the mobster guy whose name is escaping me.
00:35:10:21 - 00:35:16:06
Clark
But the who played that it was isn't that it's Marty Augustine.
00:35:16:06 - 00:35:17:00
Cullen
Marty Augustine.
00:35:17:05 - 00:35:22:12
Clark
Played by Mark Randall, who I think did a great job. I want to talk about this a little bit, too.
00:35:22:15 - 00:35:31:01
Cullen
I wonder. Yeah, what a wonderful characterization as scary dude. But like and also like, weirdly, like, come again, like you've got this undertone of comedy to.
00:35:31:01 - 00:35:36:12
Clark
Almost like this, like mousy, like, physically kind of mousy, but also yet still, it's.
00:35:36:13 - 00:35:37:21
Cullen
Not like, you know, let's all take off her.
00:35:37:21 - 00:36:07:09
Clark
Clothes. Weird. Yeah. Well and I get let me like, I'll finish this thought and let's Sure yeah some of that Yeah yeah. But as my excitement builds I start to talk about like four things at once. But so hang in there. Audience But, but I felt like a little bit of a jarring cut, a strange kind of like and I understand it's a technical thing, but when he, he kind of backhands that coke bottle into her face, there was kind of a strange kind of like cut to a an insert.
00:36:07:09 - 00:36:32:00
Clark
So obviously they had to kind of set up whatever kind of effect they had going on there with their prop and whatnot. I felt like that was a little jarring. There were there was another space, too, and it seemed so random. Do you remember where Marlowe's driving in his fancy forties, Lincoln Continental Cabriolet, and he's looking for the addresses and there is like a maid kind of walks by the camera, kind of like.
00:36:32:09 - 00:36:33:12
Cullen
Yeah, he kind of looks at her.
00:36:33:14 - 00:36:54:10
Clark
Hangs on the maid, and then there's, like, a butler guy and almost like a tux jacket. It looks kind of strange. And he's not a tux jacket, but like a server jacket or, you know, and he's like, sweeping the walkway and, you know, it's kind of like an almost or POV is like, like Marlowe were kind of scanning for the addresses, were kind of looking at the environment.
00:36:54:10 - 00:37:14:03
Clark
There was a strange cut there that felt abrupt and, and I couldn't quite understand exactly why that was done or what was going on. I don't know. But I don't know if any of these stuck out you. But only a couple. Only a couple. But for the vast majority of the film, I hardly even notice that. Didn't even feel like there was editing going on, which which I think is usually a good thing.
00:37:15:01 - 00:37:21:15
Clark
Mm hmm. But do what are you what are your thoughts on that? Especially the the one that was obvious, really obvious to me with the Coke bottle.
00:37:21:22 - 00:37:34:22
Cullen
The Coke bottle was obvious. And I think that I mean, yeah, I think it was more likely just the setting up of the blood effects and stuff and cutting, you know, you had to cut away for that. But I didn't, I didn't really notice the one about when, when he's getting to the house.
00:37:35:04 - 00:37:35:11
Clark
Yeah.
00:37:35:23 - 00:37:45:14
Cullen
I would say though that the earlier thing that you said that was interesting we were kind of having a little preliminary conversation was about the that you almost felt like the opening was like a oner.
00:37:45:23 - 00:37:46:21
Clark
I almost did. Yeah.
00:37:47:02 - 00:37:53:23
Cullen
Which, which I mean it's there's cuts in there but it yeah, it definitely feels like just more so I think because of how stuff is left in.
00:37:54:09 - 00:37:55:21
Clark
Yeah. That it's you know.
00:37:56:03 - 00:38:10:09
Cullen
Again he's like he's like lying on his bed, the cat wakes him up, he goes to the kitchen, finds out that the cat's food is empty, he has to go out and get and then he got to talk to ladies, go down to the vet and it's like, again, this, this almost like to me this feeling of like, montage.
00:38:10:09 - 00:38:12:06
Cullen
And yeah, I think what a lot of what.
00:38:12:08 - 00:38:13:12
Clark
Documentary and a lot of.
00:38:13:12 - 00:38:20:11
Cullen
Directors forget about these days is just like atmosphere. You know, you don't have to constantly be moving something so.
00:38:20:13 - 00:38:21:09
Clark
I love.
00:38:21:09 - 00:38:33:23
Cullen
It and allow the care that to our audience to just sit in a moment for a bit to, to breathe and to feel in the atmosphere. And it's like, like I think more so than anything, that scene just presents the character of Marlow better than like a monologue ever, thank goodness.
00:38:33:23 - 00:38:47:00
Clark
And better than any crappy exposition, better than any I mean, a couple of things too. I want to say a whoever. Whoever was wrangling that cat. Holy crap. Oh my God. Like one of the best cat performances.
00:38:47:00 - 00:38:49:13
Cullen
I was going to suffer. I don't see a lot of cat property because.
00:38:49:14 - 00:39:01:06
Clark
Well, because, you know, unlike most other animals, cats are pretty much untraceable. Yeah, And you can't train. Holy crap. I wonder how many takes it took to get because the cat performed Flawless.
00:39:01:06 - 00:39:05:20
Cullen
Well, and it's also I think it's a clearly like a kitten, like a pretty young cat.
00:39:05:20 - 00:39:07:16
Clark
I mean, I think that I think.
00:39:07:18 - 00:39:12:18
Cullen
That they tend to be, you know, younger cats tend to be much more easy to get to come to you or.
00:39:12:21 - 00:39:13:06
Clark
I mean, with.
00:39:13:06 - 00:39:14:03
Cullen
Some food or.
00:39:14:05 - 00:39:31:19
Clark
Maybe I mean, we look, I've got two cats. So immediately, right off the bat, I'm in love with this film because here's this super cute cat. And yeah, if you if you've ever had cats, this is like what they do. They like, jump on you and they wake you up and, and they like food and they were really cute cat It's really cute cat.
00:39:31:19 - 00:39:50:16
Clark
But, but I mean so I kind of joke. I mean, but I do love cats. I'm not joking about that. But I am really impressed actually with with how they make that scene work with a cat cause that's not easy. And it seemed like it was specifically choreographed. And that had to have been challenging, like, oh, totally.
00:39:50:16 - 00:39:51:01
Cullen
Yeah, I can.
00:39:51:01 - 00:40:16:21
Clark
Do, but I do. But the important part though, that, that you just stated, and I totally agree, is that here we are introducing a character and so many times I think films are so they they feel forced, they feel rushed and they feel like they've got to introduce character with dialog, exposition, kind of explaining to us something, telling us about a character.
00:40:17:06 - 00:40:37:09
Clark
And I just really enjoy being able to take time to have space, to actually have the director show me about the character. And it's fun too, because he goes into the cats to the convenience store, that little like grocery store, and he's looking for his cat food and it's not there. And he has this interaction with the stalker at the end of it.
00:40:37:10 - 00:40:38:08
Cullen
Who comes back briefly.
00:40:38:16 - 00:40:51:13
Clark
And you know, so Altman sets that like cute little thing up. And then when when Marlo's in jail being processed, we see that character get and they have a fun little interaction about that, you know, Hey, I don't need a cat. I've got a girl, you know.
00:40:52:10 - 00:40:53:22
Cullen
And he's like, How your cat? How's your girl?
00:40:54:00 - 00:40:54:05
Clark
Yeah.
00:40:54:15 - 00:41:17:08
Cullen
There's the funny part, too. I mean, I don't think about the intro, actually, that, that we haven't mentioned yet is, you know, the score, John Williams score, which is definitely one of the, I would say not lesser known to people who like, you know, big into film scores. And John Williams. But, you know, a lot of people, I would assume, don't know that the guy who did Star Wars, Superman, Indiana Jones, Harry Potter, he also did this you know Yeah.
00:41:17:08 - 00:41:19:13
Cullen
Again, relatively low budget movie for the time.
00:41:20:14 - 00:41:21:06
Clark
And it's a you.
00:41:21:06 - 00:41:44:17
Cullen
Know this is definitely the sort of the beginning of John Williams career as well. John Williams has done a few, you know, movies, but but John Williams primarily came on to kind of like the world stage as kind of a superstar after Jaws. Yeah, but you look at this movie and it's such a unique score in the way that Altman specifically wanted pretty much every song to be the same or the same melody, which was The Long Goodbye, the.
00:41:44:18 - 00:41:46:11
Clark
Song title, Sergeant Williams.
00:41:47:16 - 00:41:50:18
Cullen
And who was the other guy that wrote it? Johnny Mercer.
00:41:50:22 - 00:41:51:05
Clark
Yeah.
00:41:51:18 - 00:42:12:02
Cullen
But that it's like every, every version of the song is played in a different style. So but in intercut with scenes, again, going back to the opening scene where you've got Marlow going down to like, get his cat food that's intercut with his friend coming to see him, right. You know, after killing his wife. And he's got the same song on the radio, but it's in a different style.
00:42:12:02 - 00:42:44:08
Cullen
Like it's it's a different style. It's kind of like more of like a samba. Bossa nova, almost. Yeah. And so we've got this, like, piano jazz as Marlowe goes to the thing. And then there's like, the music is playing on the radio in the convenience store in a different style. And so I just, I love that. I love it when, you know, things like that are made parts of like I think again, you've got modern era and even back then pretty frequently, you know, scores were just meant to kind of be, you know, background noise that they just filled in the blanks.
00:42:44:08 - 00:42:54:22
Cullen
Whereas I think that this, you know, to have a director choose to do something really unique and interesting with the score is really cool to me. Like it's that's a really like new idea.
00:42:54:22 - 00:42:56:00
Clark
And it well, that.
00:42:56:09 - 00:43:12:15
Cullen
Again, it just kind of feels like it brings the whole movie together in a way that it almost ties a neat bow around it. And it's one of those things that if it was missing from the movie, the movie wouldn't be altered in a huge way. But it because it's there, it just adds this level of of detail that I really like.
00:43:12:18 - 00:43:13:01
Cullen
Yeah.
00:43:13:01 - 00:43:31:08
Clark
Well I mean and and you you mentioned and I would expand upon because I think it is so important that so much of the soundtrack or so much of the score the long goodbye like you mentioned in these different iterations is presented of it, you know, in the story world. So it's yeah, it expands.
00:43:31:09 - 00:43:31:12
Cullen
Yet.
00:43:31:13 - 00:44:12:21
Clark
Again and it's actually there We have and it's done uniquely. You know Marlowe's at a bar and we have the piano Man at the bar playing it. It's on the radio. In several different instances we have all this different moments where it's actually the result of an interaction in the story world that the music is presented. So yeah, again, I mean, we talk about performances, camera, the sound, you know, as far as like how dialogs recorded, how the score is presented in the film, all of these things are presented in a way that really does create that all kind of synergistically, kind of creates this flow that we keep.
00:44:12:21 - 00:44:39:12
Cullen
Trying to put it simply, too, there's, there's just there's a through line of, of choice and intention through the entire movie and every aspect of the movie that you so rarely find. Like you just you feel not only Altman's hands in every aspect of the movie, but just that that almost like the movie has this almost symbiosis to it that it's like it's got its own thing and that so everything that exists in this world feels so perfectly orchestrated for the movie.
00:44:39:12 - 00:44:41:00
Cullen
And I don't mean in a choreographed.
00:44:41:00 - 00:44:42:00
Clark
Or no it up.
00:44:42:00 - 00:45:04:01
Cullen
Way, but rather just that it feels like it almost reminds me of the feeling of kind of like a graphic novel where it's set in, you know, the real world. But there's definitely like, there's, there's an interpretation to everything in life. And that's what this movie feels like. Like every every person that he interacts with, they don't necessarily act as authentically is as, you know, real people would.
00:45:04:01 - 00:45:08:13
Cullen
But I kind of like that like that. There's like a character to everybody. Everybody has like.
00:45:08:21 - 00:45:10:12
Clark
Either like a small world.
00:45:10:12 - 00:45:12:15
Cullen
Building or this really nice. Yeah, exactly.
00:45:12:16 - 00:45:37:06
Clark
Even even though it's not like sci fi. It's not like, you know, we're not off on another planet, but, but yeah, that there's like, that, that the world that the film creates is a tangible it's a subtle one and it's like a by a believable one. I yeah, I want to go back quickly to a couple of things performance wise, and I want to go back to also to that the violence that is in there.
00:45:37:06 - 00:46:05:21
Clark
Yes. Just really quickly. Really quickly, because I don't know about you, but it it it really stood out to me and it was I was kind of shocked, honestly. Not that it's it's not graphic in in like a modern sense where you see, like Gore or something. But the way that the violence is, what violence there is in this film is prevented and presented in a way that just it really did affect me.
00:46:05:21 - 00:46:32:21
Clark
And that's yeah, and that's where we have that's where we have Marty Augustine that who is this that I don't it's never really stated exactly. I'm just going to call him like mob guy. But you know, he's got his entourage of henchmen and he's looking for his $350,000. And of course, he comes to Marlow to do that, thinking that he has got it or knows where it is.
00:46:33:10 - 00:46:54:00
Clark
And there's that scene where they come into Marlowe's apartment, into his apartment, and they bring in or she comes up this woman that's I guess his his girlfriend, Right. And Marty's girlfriend. And the way that he kind of is threatening Marlowe, but talking to.
00:46:54:00 - 00:46:55:14
Cullen
Her. Using her.
00:46:55:14 - 00:47:02:00
Clark
Yeah. Using her as a proxy for like, I'm not going to hurt you. I'm going to hurt her.
00:47:02:00 - 00:47:04:01
Cullen
But yeah, it's like, this is someone I love.
00:47:04:01 - 00:47:05:10
Clark
But he talks, right? And you see.
00:47:05:10 - 00:47:06:13
Cullen
What I did with you? Yeah.
00:47:06:13 - 00:47:18:04
Clark
Yeah. He goes on this monologue about how much you know, she means to him and how much, which is also kind of funny because it's like, Well, I mean, you're not my wife, but, I mean, you know, outside of my family, like, you're the most important thing to me. I mean, a.
00:47:19:12 - 00:47:31:12
Cullen
Really funny element to it, too, where it's like Marlowe has this like there's there's no in a very interesting way, the stakes in the violence in this movie are present. Like the violence. Yes. Super brutal.
00:47:31:12 - 00:47:32:18
Clark
Doesn't respond to it.
00:47:33:05 - 00:47:48:10
Cullen
But he he almost is, like, clear like it's like this buddy buddy things with all the all these people who are threatening him, like, he's just kind of like making jokes with them. And there's the one guy that is kind of the youngest of those mob groups and he's like, assigned to follow Marlowe, and he marlowe's kind of helping him out.
00:47:48:10 - 00:48:18:17
Cullen
Like, I'm not supposed to see you following me. And there's this. Yeah. And I think that really again is again, to go back to that, that's something that is a tone in a lot of movies. This, this almost really, really black comedy. Yeah but but we're of everyone else's kind of there's also this like almost weird stupidity to it and I don't mean stupid in the way that it's written or stupid in the way that it's presented, but just that that every character almost seems to just be slightly dumb in a really fun way.
00:48:18:17 - 00:48:28:21
Cullen
And it kind of. Yeah, but, but again, that is so juxtaposed against this this really Yeah this like violent outbreak and then later on in the film.
00:48:28:21 - 00:49:07:23
Clark
Yeah. The way that it sets that up I mean that's, that's intense and yeah it and it's unfortunate that you know that there's only a few women characters in the film and sadly they're either kind of presented half naked as Marlowe's neighbors or have violence committed against them. So that's, that's unfortunate. But but then the way Altman sets that scene up where where we have Marty just like just smash this bottle into her face and it's really horrific.
00:49:07:23 - 00:49:29:13
Clark
And you're right, Marlowe does not respond the way you would think most people would respond. He seems pretty nonplused. But then we come back later and there's like this, a replication of the scene. And so we know what happened the first time we see bandages and. Yeah, right. And we see kind of this, you know, the results of he's now she's got all this.
00:49:29:13 - 00:49:47:13
Clark
She's like, clearly her nose has had to be like, fixed and there's all this bandage all over her face and now Marty brings her in again and he's talking to her again just the same way that he talked to her before whenever he hit her. And so at least for me, I don't know about you, but I was just like, this is intense.
00:49:47:13 - 00:49:59:11
Clark
Yeah. I'm just like, oh, my gosh, don't do it. Don't do it. Please, please, please, please. Yeah, yeah. Thankfully he does it, but. Oh, my gosh. But you're right. And what he does do is pretty funny. I mean.
00:49:59:17 - 00:50:01:00
Cullen
And Schwarzenegger's there.
00:50:01:05 - 00:50:18:20
Clark
And. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We we have to give. Yeah, Arnold Schwarzenegger is there. It's, I think, just real quick, we'll digress. Yeah. I think you had mentioned that he was in Hercules in New York where he of course, he has his voice overdubbed out. So he clearly and he's just an extra here. I don't even know if he's credited.
00:50:18:20 - 00:50:19:19
Clark
He doesn't have any lines.
00:50:19:19 - 00:50:21:05
Cullen
He's not Yeah, he's not credited in.
00:50:21:05 - 00:50:35:01
Clark
And he was in the middle of his Mr. Olympia win streak. I mean, so in the bodybuilding world he was like top he was numero uno, but he had yet to make his impact in film. So it's definitely funny to see him here and he gets to take off his clothes.
00:50:36:04 - 00:50:46:13
Cullen
Yeah. Because. Yeah, but that's what I mean is that it's this is really weird like that, saying that if you think that, oh God, he's going to hit her again or something like that, or he's going to give me some sort of outburst of violence, right? It's like, everyone take off.
00:50:46:13 - 00:51:00:01
Clark
Everybody take off your clothes. And you're just sort of sitting there like, wow, Because it's like, that's how that's how we've got to be honest. It's like, I'm vulnerable. If I take off my clothes, then then we can be vulnerable and honest. I'm just like, Yeah, so.
00:51:00:05 - 00:51:13:03
Cullen
So again, there's this yeah, there's this weird sense of humor that goes under the whole thing. That's that's very much not necessarily. I think like if I, if you read the book I haven't read the book, but I don't think the book is in any way comedic. I think I'm.
00:51:13:03 - 00:51:18:08
Clark
Not sure I'm not it. Yeah. And whereas there's a lot of humor.
00:51:18:13 - 00:51:35:11
Cullen
Yeah. And I think that again, that comes a lot from like you watch something like the Master, which on a whole is not a very funny movie. You've got these funny little bits like when he's, when Jacobi in Phenix is taking the pictures of the guy and he keeps sliding the light closer to him and the lights are so hot that the guy's like, getting away from the light.
00:51:35:11 - 00:51:43:09
Cullen
And yeah, you know, things like that that are, you know, I think super Altman he yeah very clearly um, you know, very much.
00:51:43:17 - 00:52:04:11
Clark
Yeah. I think there's a lot of humor. I think, you know, you talk a little bit about, you know, Elliott Gould's marlowe being kind of detached or being, you know, not not having a lot of serious reaction to the violence that goes on, to the threats that go on. I mean, you've got I mean, and actually, Marlowe actually even ends up killing in cold blood.
00:52:04:11 - 00:52:27:02
Clark
His friend at the end. Spoiler alert. But hey, if you've not seen the film by now, 50 years later, then I think it's okay. But but, you know, I mean, Marlowe actually ends up eventually, you know, he kind of comes to the end of his of the conclusion of the mystery kind of part of the story, a part of the film, and come to find out his friend who he, in the beginning of the film takes two to want.
00:52:27:02 - 00:52:41:00
Clark
It actually ends up kind of scene He's still alive He faked a suicide and he's actually, you know, been cheating with the woman from the other case. Mm hmm. It's all.
00:52:41:00 - 00:52:41:12
Cullen
Connected.
00:52:41:12 - 00:52:53:03
Clark
In and it's all connected. And I mean, and there's not a whole lot of it's like, you know, Marlowe pulls out a gun and shoots him, and that after it's confirmed that his friend has done this to him, he doesn't do a lot of things.
00:52:53:03 - 00:52:54:05
Cullen
Like, I lost my cat.
00:52:54:05 - 00:53:15:22
Clark
Yeah, and literally, as he and the ending, I think is I actually it's hard to end a film. There are a lot of great films that that that like it's like the ending just doesn't quite do it justice. No good endings are tough. I think this ending is Oh yeah, it's not only do we kind of wrap up the whole kind of mystery plot part, we get this.
00:53:15:22 - 00:53:36:09
Clark
I think it's great where we have Marlowe kind of walking down this this like, really long shot, the long lands. He's walking down this beautiful road and we see Eileen Wade, Nina Van Palance, Eileen Wade driving towards us in a jeep. And she kind of glances at Marlowe, kind of recognizes him thinking like, what is he doing here?
00:53:36:15 - 00:53:38:02
Clark
And then and then heads on down.
00:53:38:02 - 00:53:40:00
Cullen
Shortly after having ignored him last time, they say.
00:53:40:07 - 00:53:58:03
Clark
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Because, of course, we all now we know what's going on. So we know she's getting ready to have to find that the man that she wanted to escape away to Mexico with is dead. And you just have this little moment where Marlowe plays this little harmonica that he got in the hospital. And in fact.
00:53:58:05 - 00:54:00:01
Cullen
That's, again, another comedic moment when he got.
00:54:00:01 - 00:54:03:23
Clark
There. And I kind of like dances a little jig with this, like, random stranger. You know, that we.
00:54:03:23 - 00:54:10:02
Cullen
Find out we would whoever it's called, Here's to Hollywood. Ah, hooray for Hollywood. For Hollywood. The only other song.
00:54:10:02 - 00:54:41:13
Clark
And the only other surprise And I just feel like it's and so but but what I want to say, too, is I think the way Marlowe responds to these things is what keeps this film from being melodramatic or too heavy. If if Marlowe is response because we see the film through Marlowe, Right. If Marlowe's response were to be, Oh my gosh, this is horrible, or you know, if he were to be in fear, if he were to be, you know, because in reality, likely you'd be pretty terrified if you had a mob boss coming after you for 350 grand, which back then was probably $5 million.
00:54:41:13 - 00:54:58:14
Clark
If you're Fred had just that you just helped out to go to Mexico, was found dead. You know, if all of these things were actually happening, if you witnessed a woman have her face, you know, destroyed by someone hitting her with a bottle, I mean, your response would be substantially different. Mm hmm.
00:54:58:18 - 00:55:02:11
Cullen
But but then that's what I mean when it's like there's this world building and tone building. Yeah.
00:55:02:20 - 00:55:15:19
Clark
And and so that helps keep the tone of this film light in a sense, even though it's a it's a neo noir, it's not a true noir. It's not heavy like it. No, it's not hardboiled.
00:55:15:19 - 00:55:19:02
Cullen
And yeah, you don't come out of it thinking like that was depressing or something.
00:55:19:02 - 00:55:21:20
Clark
You know, it really has a lot more comedy in.
00:55:21:23 - 00:55:39:23
Cullen
And again, you can also, you know, for another contemporary artist you can really see Altman's influence on like the Coens, like where you're, you know, the Coens love that, like Fargo is arguably a story that's about like a really tragic events that's hilarious. Like our Fargo is a really, really funny movie.
00:55:39:23 - 00:55:47:12
Clark
Going to do that all the time? Yeah, dark comedy. It's like crime, people dying, but it's hysterical. Yeah, Yeah.
00:55:47:20 - 00:55:55:06
Cullen
And I really like I love that that style of, of like, not overt comedy, but just that everything is played up a little bit, like, silly in a way.
00:55:55:06 - 00:56:21:15
Clark
Yeah, well, it's like the absurdity of life. And not that we will. I'm sure we'll do a Coens film, but. But yeah, there is definitely an absurdity of life that I think it captures and, you know, look real life can be pretty damn serious, but a lot of times in those most tragic, serious moments when life seems as surreal as it can get, there is some kind of sliver of strange comedy in that.
00:56:21:15 - 00:56:23:03
Cullen
So if you don't laugh, you cry.
00:56:23:03 - 00:56:38:06
Clark
If you don't laugh, you cry. Well, on that note, I think we can wrap this one up. Colin, it's been a pleasure. I appreciate you picking this film. I really enjoyed watching it and I have enjoyed discussing it with you. And I hope.
00:56:38:07 - 00:56:38:18
Cullen
Totally.
00:56:38:18 - 00:56:56:09
Clark
And I hope that those listening out there also enjoyed our discussion of it. I'll be excited to see you. It's my turn, isn't it? It's my turn for the nephew. I've got some homework to do. Then I better think of something. I'm scared. I'm scared because there's a part of me that you know I don't know about you.
00:56:56:09 - 00:57:20:22
Clark
Just for a quick second, let me take a quick moment here. I love so many different types of film. And, you know, I feel like films and cars, I my attitude toward them are the same. I love like, every kind of car, like the cheesiest, like dumpy little car. I could make fun. And I also love Ferraris and, you know, I mean, the most expensive or the cheesiest dumpy is cars.
00:57:20:22 - 00:57:58:12
Clark
It's like I can find a way to like to enjoy it, appreciate all of them, because I just yeah, I just love cars and it's like the same with films. It's like I just love films so much that it's rare that I find a film that I can't get like some kind of enjoyment out of. So it's like whether it's like super cheesy, like eighties horror B-movie or like, you know, like, you name it, like any genre of film, any like kind of I may be film, see films, you know, like just, you know, whatever teen comedies like masterpieces, you know, whatever.
00:57:58:12 - 00:58:25:14
Clark
I can't even think of it. Just so many different types. So my point is my point is I'm like playing around with the idea of possibly bringing to the table some films that life for a little bit out of, you know, this like upper echelon of film that we've been, you know, mostly for the most part say, you know, kind of films that are definitely kind of universally or closely universally considered classic except for at Close range, which was one of mine.
00:58:26:06 - 00:58:38:03
Clark
So I don't know. How do you feel about that? I don't know. I just find you open, you open to potential, like doing some genre films or some some things that like, you know, aren't necessarily considered masterpiece is okay. Yeah, about it. Well, I mean.
00:58:38:03 - 00:58:42:22
Cullen
That's my I've got my next few picks kind of like, Oh, laid out and.
00:58:42:22 - 00:58:58:18
Clark
Oh man I won't spoil it, but yeah, don't spoil it. You're on top it. Oh, okay. All right. Well, there's so many good films out there. And that's the other thing. I just. Life is too short. I wish that. I wish that we lived a thousand years so that I could absorb, you know, a thousand times more film.
00:58:58:18 - 00:59:08:00
Cullen
Well, what's nice about doing this, too, is that it keeps me, you know, I haven't been able to, like, sit down and watch a lot of movies lately. Yeah. And yet I still this is great because it makes me it forces me to sit down and more.
00:59:08:00 - 00:59:19:01
Clark
You go once in a So good, good, good. All right, Well, fantastic. Well, thanks. Everybody thinks Cullen will say goodbye for now. And until next time, we'll see you guys on the flipside. Bye bye.