Clark
Hello and welcome everyone to the Soldiers of Cinema Podcast. Episode 42. I'm Clark Coffey and with me as always is Mr. Cullen McFater. What's up, buddy?
00:00:21:08 - 00:00:21:22
Cullen
Howdy.
00:00:22:05 - 00:00:26:17
Clark
It must that your mustache is looking. I wish that we did video along with this audio because.
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Cullen
Oh yeah. One day. One day you.
00:00:28:09 - 00:00:52:02
Clark
Are rushing it. You are crushing it. I have mustache envy. I. I wish that I could grow a mustache like that. I was actually revisiting. We're going to take a quick digression here. This is not what this episode is about, but I had watched Tombstone recently, which is one of my favorite. Oh, yeah. From my childhood. And the reason I was watching Tombstone was because I had recently watched Val Kilmer's documentary Val.
00:00:52:05 - 00:00:52:23
Cullen
Me as well. Yeah.
00:00:53:02 - 00:01:10:17
Clark
Which I really enjoyed and you know, again, I don't want to get too far off our pass here, but I really enjoyed the film. It reminded me how much I enjoyed a lot of Val's work. So I was watching Tombstone and I was just like, I have never seen a better mustache in my life than Kurt Russell's mustache in that film.
00:01:10:17 - 00:01:32:17
Clark
Oh, it's so good. Is it even real? I'm like, How can a mustache be that real? Like that thick and full? And I'm like, I just have mustache envy. Of course, nobody there would know unless you knew me personally, because this is audio. But I just am, like, really lacking in the facial hair department. I just do not have good facial hair, and I feel a little bit sad for that.
00:01:32:17 - 00:01:35:09
Cullen
But what was that? You did a sketch once about the spray on Beard.
00:01:37:01 - 00:02:02:01
Clark
He Yeah, that's a good one. I remember. I did. Yeah, I did. He's referring to colors. Referring to. I did like a short film, like just a sketch basically, of on like a fake commercial for a product that I had named Insta Beard, which was a spray on beard and Yeah, and yes, that, that was the inspiration for that was that I was sad that I can't really grow a beard or a mustache.
00:02:02:01 - 00:02:12:07
Clark
So anyway. All right, but on to what this podcast is actually about and that is Paul Verhoeven's 1987 film RoboCop.
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Cullen
Which yes.
00:02:13:10 - 00:02:22:21
Clark
Which was picked by Coen. And I'm excited that you did because I am a big fan of the genre films, of which this is definitely one of them.
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Cullen
Oh, totally. And that summer, it's actually interesting because you read the release of this movie. It was like that summer was just filled with genre films.
00:02:30:06 - 00:02:31:08
Clark
Yeah, well, and I.
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Cullen
Mean, I you read some of that stuff again. You go on an aside just for a second. Yeah. The entry I have, I mean, even for myself as a kid and it's like you, you, you read back on summers that had just like hit after hit after hit after hit and you imagine being able to go to the movie theaters every weekend and see something just incredible and fantastic.
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Cullen
And and, you know, it really makes you makes you yearn.
00:02:56:07 - 00:03:18:19
Clark
I know, huh? Well, I mean, so I'm old enough that I actually did see RoboCop in the theater. I saw it on a initial theatrical release. Now, I was only 11. And that's a, you know, a topic for another time. Should an 11 year old have been allowed to go to it, been admitted out? Of course, technically I shouldn't have because it was a rated R film.
00:03:18:19 - 00:03:32:01
Clark
And I think that's 17 in the United States. Right. And so I technically shouldn't have, but I very specifically remember actually getting admission into that movie with a children's ticket. So. So there you go.
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Cullen
Yeah, I, I also was old enough to see this in theaters but last weekend. So.
00:03:37:20 - 00:03:39:02
Clark
Yeah, well, that's.
00:03:39:10 - 00:03:57:23
Cullen
No, I it was actually funny cause I chose this before I knew that I was going to get the chance to see it in theaters. And then I, my a friend of mine was just kind of like browsing local. There's a lot of really great independent theaters that are just, you know, single screen actors in Toronto that are a do a lot of second run shows and classics and stuff.
00:03:57:23 - 00:04:01:22
Cullen
And they were doing a double feature for free No ticket charge.
00:04:01:22 - 00:04:02:11
Clark
Wow.
00:04:02:21 - 00:04:12:09
Cullen
RoboCop and Manhunter one night. And so I was like, Hey, I hate that for the podcast. I might as well go and see it. And so it was the first time I'd seen this in theaters, and it was really, really great too.
00:04:12:17 - 00:04:12:23
Clark
Yeah.
00:04:13:15 - 00:04:41:01
Cullen
A Be back in the theater. Yeah. Also be able to see, you know, one of my favorite movies. I think that this is pretty high up there. If I was going to list, you know, the movies that I love, I very different than a lot of the other movies that I like. But I think that it's it's just so well done and so, you know, perfectly crafted with such a clear intention that that it would, of course, would get into detail.
00:04:41:01 - 00:05:02:08
Clark
But I mean, it's right up my alley because I, you know, and I am not I mean, look, I love I love all types of film, but, you know, really my my heart is probably most into, you know, the way I would describe it is is a film that punches way above its weight class. You know, this is a a relatively low budget genre film.
00:05:02:08 - 00:05:05:10
Clark
I mean, for crying out loud, it's called RoboCop.
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Cullen
Right. It's funny. I always reminds me of, you know, if anyone has played like the Grand Theft Auto Games, that there's always these things in the games that are like fake movies and they do like play a trailer for the fake movie or whatever. So it's this ridiculous title. And RoboCop to me, seems like a movie that would be in that universe.
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Clark
That it's like a satire.
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Cullen
So ridiculous.
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Clark
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. But it you know, this movie has no business being good, right? That's on paper. This this movie has no business being a good movie. But it is. And in spite of all of these things, it is fantastic. And it's it's a much better film than it has any right to be. And I absolutely love I mean, those kind of films.
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Clark
Maybe it's because I love underdogs. I don't know, but Or maybe it's because it's it's just the way my mind works. And it's, you know, when I imagine sitting down to make a film, this is often the kind of films that I like to make. It's not pretentious. It doesn't take itself too seriously. It revels in what I think makes cinema great, which is Kinetic CISM.
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Clark
And yes, even that means violence. Yeah. And and I think it embraces what cinema is, which is visual storytelling and of, you know, sometimes mythic proportions here. And, and I love it. I just love it. So I've always loved RoboCop, but let's talk about that a little more. You know, it's one of the things we always like to jump off it with is kind of our first our first impression or first experiences with the film.
00:06:37:04 - 00:06:56:20
Clark
And so we both saw this film beyond. But of course I saw it in 87 and you saw it much later, but we both saw it about the same age in our lives. So tell us a little bit about, you know, where you were when you saw this film for the first time. If you remember, and it kind of what your impression was, you know, how did you feel about the flick when you first saw it when you were a kid?
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Cullen
Yeah, I think I was. I think it was, yeah, 12 or 13, I think in middle school at the time. And it's honestly not an exuberantly interesting story, but I remember seeing I think I either saw it on like AMC or Spike TV.
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Clark
Okay, like on TV.
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Cullen
They were just playing it and so commercial breaks and all that. And of course I am sure it was censored down.
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Clark
Yeah.
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Cullen
You know, be allowed for TV. But I just remember being so caught up, especially the music, like, I love, love, love the score for this movie. I think it's it's an.
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Clark
Outstanding.
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Cullen
Score. It's outstanding and it's bombastic and it's it's like a loud and but it's got such a wonderful theme that, you know, you whistle what you're getting coming out of the theater. But I yeah I, I remember I used to like I just loved this my dad I've spoken a lot about like the movies that my dad used to show me as a kid.
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Cullen
And a lot of it was like Hitchcock and kind of like older, older classics like that and things like the sixties and seventies. But he was never really super into, with a few exceptions, like eighties action. So it was something that was kind of a blind spot for me growing up. I never really saw like Predator. I didn't really watch like The Terminator until I was, Oh wow, I got it on Blu ray myself.
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Cullen
And so a lot of those like eighties action movies, I kind of missed Rambo and things like that.
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Clark
Yeah, those were like, that was like the meat of my diet.
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Cullen
Yeah. So that was kind of. Yeah, I was I guess I was ironically seeing a lot from like before then. Um, and you know, again, top Gun is a movie that my dad loved. So I was kind of that was the eighties action movie that I used to watch. I still love Top Gun to this day, but so yeah, I was never really super like into it just by virtue of not having seen a lot of it like that kind of genre.
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Cullen
So I remember before I'd seen it, I knew what it was, I'd heard of it, and I always thought again, it was just kind of like, I think seeing it on a poster and just being like, Oh, it's just a stupid be action movie about a robot cop. And then I watched it and it was like this, like funny and punchy and, you know, brilliantly executed and, you know, brilliantly cast.
00:09:00:17 - 00:09:06:20
Cullen
Like, there's no role in the movie. There's nobody that's not giving 110%, but at the same time isn't perfect for the role of.
00:09:07:00 - 00:09:07:15
Clark
The editor.
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Cullen
Credited so supremely. And so I used to like play video games after and like play the theme song. I'd be I don't know, I've been playing like GTA or I'd be playing even some like World War Two game. Yeah. And I'd be like shooting the guys, the RoboCop theme and like, it was just such a you know, it was one of those movies that again, what's also funny is that it's not really a movie that like, even though I loved it, it didn't have a ton of influence on me.
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Cullen
Like it's not something that I necessarily go.
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Clark
You're not going to go out.
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Cullen
Say that I Yeah. Or like that. In in my filmmaking, I've never really, like cited RoboCop as something that, you know, is inspiring me to make something. But at the same time, it's a movie that I watch very frequently. I probably watch it once a year and this year.
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Clark
Probably rubs off on you on ways, you know, probably, yeah.
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Cullen
Exact. And I think the satire, especially in like the way that he handles humor, like I love you know the moment again we kind of discuss this but the the moment in the convenience store when he first is RoboCop and he goes in and the guys like me after me after me, and he's like saying it's like 50 times and it's this really funny, you know, moment of just pure action and insanity.
00:10:11:17 - 00:10:33:00
Cullen
But it it's overlaid with this ridiculous performance by, you know, the robber and stuff like that. And so I think things like that certainly rubbed off on me. And I think that, you know, the the style of that also has rubbed off in a lot of it. Like I see, weirdly enough, like a lot of especially Edgar Wright's earlier movies, like I see a lot of this in those.
00:10:33:00 - 00:10:48:09
Cullen
I see. So there's tons of stuff that I think that I watched, especially as a kid that I just don't think I realized was necessarily connected to this movie. Yeah, but yeah, I mean, it's it's, it's great. I mean, I don't know how else to say it other than the fact that I love it a lot as a kid.
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Cullen
And there's love the music and I love the the action and the gore and. Yeah, yeah.
00:10:54:06 - 00:11:19:06
Clark
Well those and that's totally you know, and that's the thing is like films can be enjoyable, you know, it's they don't have to always be this kind of highfalutin, you know, high art kind of thing. And that again, that's, you know, I think sometimes when when a when a filmmaker sets out to make something like on purpose, you're shooting for, you know, for an Oscar or you're shooting to make something really elevated.
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Clark
And, you know, there's, you know, a lot of times that can really kind of come back on you and turn out crap. And it does a lot of times. And I see that happen a lot. And, you know, it's the Oscar winners are filled with films like that to me that are frankly dead inside. They're boring. They're dead inside.
00:11:37:12 - 00:11:57:17
Clark
They lack humor. They lack kind of self understanding and self-consciousness, and they take themselves too seriously. And I, you know, in my mind, there's nothing worse than a film that takes itself too seriously. It's just I don't they're boring to me. They're dead inside and this, I think, is filled with fun. It's filled with a sense of humor and.
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Cullen
Fear heightened.
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Clark
And yeah, so but, you know, at the end, a lot of people feel this way. You know, you don't have to be embarrassed about liking this film. I mean, it was a huge commercial success when it was released in 87, it earned 53 and a half million dollars, which I don't know what inflation would be now for, you know, 35 years later or whatever it is.
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Clark
But that's substantially a.
00:12:16:04 - 00:12:17:06
Cullen
Few hundred million probably.
00:12:17:06 - 00:12:36:22
Clark
Yeah, it's it's substantial. On a small budget. It had about 13 and a half million dollar budget, which, you know, even for then was not huge, especially for a science fiction kind of futuristic action movie that was pretty low budget and it even received an Academy Award, I think, for sound design. If I'm not mistaken. Wright was in it for something with sound.
00:12:36:22 - 00:12:37:08
Clark
Yeah.
00:12:37:08 - 00:12:42:04
Cullen
Yeah. Let me. So make sure that we get that right. But yeah, the and if.
00:12:42:04 - 00:12:57:18
Clark
You go back and you look at reviews of the era, you know, yes, there were there were some critics who were, who harped on the violence and yeah, you know, that's always going to be the case. But you know, by and large, for the most part, it was really, you know, critically acclaimed film. It was a surprise hit.
00:12:58:06 - 00:12:59:10
Cullen
Audiences loved it. Yeah.
00:12:59:11 - 00:13:00:08
Clark
Yeah. So.
00:13:00:08 - 00:13:10:14
Cullen
Oh, no, I'll never be apologetic for my love of RoboCop. I was into, I was into like, cosplay or anything like that. Like, or like, you know, one of those, like, goes to conventions and, like, dresses up. I would totally.
00:13:10:14 - 00:13:15:22
Clark
Well, you've got RoboCop. I think that you should, you should do that. And I think you should keep the mustache.
00:13:16:03 - 00:13:16:16
Cullen
Oh yeah, yeah.
00:13:17:01 - 00:13:38:03
Clark
Modern. Modern. Yes, a mustache. RoboCop would be awesome. Obviously, we would. You know, you could just see that mustache pick out, like, right below the visor there. I think that would be fantastic. That's awesome. Well, all right. I mean, so for me, I was close to the same age as you. I mean, now I know exactly how old I was because I saw it at the theater and I know when it was released.
00:13:38:03 - 00:13:58:15
Clark
So I was 11 when I saw this film and I did see it theatrically. And it's interesting, you know, there aren't a ton of films. I mean, I saw films like every week as a kid, you know, or I mean, very, very regularly. That's something that I did as a kid, and I can only remember a handful of films, you know, seeing them in the theater, well, maybe more than a handful, a few handfuls.
00:13:58:15 - 00:14:26:06
Clark
But nonetheless, you know, only a small fraction of the films I saw, I can remember. And I so very vividly specifically remember seeing this film in a theater. And I mean, I can even remember the feeling of how I felt during, you know, for example, when Peter Weller as Murphy before he's turned into RoboCop, is executed by the gang in that warehouse, they abandoned warehouse.
00:14:26:06 - 00:14:53:21
Clark
And how he's, you know, basically just, you know, his hands blown, making arms and going off. He's just, you know, just, you know, shot just, you know, it seems like the scene goes on for 5 minutes. They're just torturing, shooting this guy. And I just remember being floored, just that the film felt so visceral. It felt so I mean, some of it almost was documentary kind of in its execution with, you know, like the you know, where he's he's taken to the E.R. right after that falling.
00:14:53:21 - 00:15:15:11
Clark
Yeah. And it seemed, you know, almost real, as crazy as that seems, you know, even though the violence is very heightened, it it seemed almost real to me. It was I really affected by it. So, yeah, I mean, I really stood out to me. I very vividly remember it and I was pretty much blown away by it. Yeah.
00:15:15:11 - 00:15:23:05
Clark
And then, you know, of course, like from then on after that, I would, you know, occasionally use RoboCop lines in my, you know, dead or alive. You're coming with me.
00:15:23:16 - 00:15:25:06
Cullen
Always great great to quote. Yeah.
00:15:25:10 - 00:15:26:11
Clark
It's so funny.
00:15:26:11 - 00:15:27:13
Cullen
That your dog to go.
00:15:28:22 - 00:15:54:19
Clark
What exactly exactly So so yeah I, I saw it young and I loved it. And of course, you know, every time that come on, you know, TV or something, I'm sure I've seen it, you know, multiple times since then. And then in preparation for this podcast, the latest viewing I saw, Arrow has a new Blu ray release with I don't know that it's a brand new transfer, but it's it's a revised color correction.
00:15:54:19 - 00:16:06:00
Clark
I take a little bit on it, but it's a very nice transfer and a lot of extras, a handful of commentary tracks and things like that. So if you're into the film, Arrow does have a relatively new release and.
00:16:06:09 - 00:16:07:04
Cullen
There is great.
00:16:07:04 - 00:16:22:04
Clark
Yeah yeah I they I don't yeah not to digress too much again but you know they have a channel now that you can subscribe to. So if you love genre films if you love B-movies, boy my goodness, there you went. That's like the the, like the gold pod at the end of the rainbow, right? Yeah, They do.
00:16:22:12 - 00:16:23:14
Cullen
Really great work. Yeah.
00:16:23:22 - 00:16:43:07
Clark
So. All right, well, so let's let's talk a little bit more about the things that jump out at us about this film. You know, one of the things that I learned, I did not know this. I thought this was kind of interesting. So it was written by Edward Neumeier and Michael Miner. But Edward Neumeier, this is interesting. So I'm also a Blade Runner fan.
00:16:43:07 - 00:17:05:05
Clark
I think you probably are too, right? I love Blade Runner. Well, apparently Ed Neumeier was like at the beginning of his career, he was working as like a he was set dressing basically, just like like, you know, on the on the studio lot for Blade Runner. They, you know, they're like trashing the streets and everything. Right. Is this dystopian future?
00:17:05:05 - 00:17:24:14
Clark
Of course. And so he was one of the guys that was just like set dressing, like throwing trash making and throwing fake trash everywhere to dress the set. And he didn't even know what the film was about. And so finally he kind of asked, you know, somebody else, what is this movie about? And he's like, Oh, the crew member he asked kind of pointed to some of the characters, like, Oh, they're robots.
00:17:24:22 - 00:17:40:04
Clark
And he can kind of see that like, you know, there was some kind of police thing going on. And but he's like, in his mind, he's like, this will look like a robot. They just look like people. And of course, he didn't understand kind of the idea that behind the film of replicants, that's the whole point, is that they you can't discern them from humans.
00:17:40:04 - 00:17:58:01
Clark
But at the time he's thinking, Well, that's not a robot. I can make it. I'm going to write a real robot. You know? But he kind of combined that idea of police and robots and future, and the idea of RoboCop kind of came into his mind. So the film is kind of inspired to some extent by Blade Runner, which I thought was pretty interesting.
00:17:58:07 - 00:18:16:05
Cullen
Mm hmm. No, that's really yeah. I mean, it makes sense. Total sense. Sure. Because that was one of the things that we were sort of talking about was that like even in the because this movie is obviously much lower budget than than Blade Runner and relatively low budget for the time anyway. Yeah. And especially for the the scope of the movie.
00:18:16:06 - 00:18:45:10
Cullen
Yeah. That it's not it's not like a dystopian future movie where there's flying cars and and you know androids walking in the street and right big television screens that are in the sides of buildings and stuff it it feels and I think to its benefit very real in its execution like it feels like and again very heightened version of of what what the world was and in some ways very much still is like yeah.
00:18:45:22 - 00:19:08:18
Cullen
And so I think that that again, it really works in its favor like apart from the fact that there's a robotic police officer and there's like the 209 robots and stuff. Mm hmm. That other than that, it really does feel very grounded. Like the police cars are just for Tauruses and which again, you mentioned that they were kind of like this new futuristic car at the time.
00:19:08:18 - 00:19:09:12
Clark
Yeah. Yeah.
00:19:09:12 - 00:19:10:19
Cullen
But at the same time, like, they.
00:19:11:01 - 00:19:11:19
Clark
Were, they were real.
00:19:11:19 - 00:19:24:22
Cullen
Today. That's their real car. And you're like, it's a, it's a Ford Taurus. Yeah. It's not, it's not a flying car. So yeah, I think that the writing and I'm curious to know when it was being written and I don't know if we have an answer for that or if perhaps there's an answer.
00:19:24:22 - 00:19:25:12
Clark
Well, I mean.
00:19:25:22 - 00:19:45:20
Cullen
Blade Runner, if when he was writing it, I wonder if his his budgetary, you know, the thing that he had in mind for budget was larger. Like I wonder if he wanted to go more for the esthetic of a Blade Runner where there was a lot of special effects and you were building up this this like world in this universe of like, you know, big smokestacks and things like that.
00:19:46:00 - 00:20:03:15
Clark
So, yeah, you know, now that now I can't be for sure. This is like speculation on my part and somebody listening. You may have more insight, but you know so he would have been on the Blade Runner set in 82. So obviously this was written between 82 and probably 85, you know, at the latest, because you're in preproduction.
00:20:03:15 - 00:20:23:16
Clark
And the film probably shot in 86, released in 87. So you've got a couple of years there between, you know, he would have been on set, maybe 81 on Blade Runner. So between 81 and 85 or so is when I'm guessing it was written. But, you know, who knows? I mean, I think smart writers probably tend to to not write themselves into huge budgets.
00:20:23:22 - 00:20:24:07
Cullen
Yes.
00:20:24:18 - 00:20:37:04
Clark
Especially if he was kind of that was the beginning of his career. I didn't I hadn't heard in any commentaries or read anywhere or that they had to radically reduce the scope and.
00:20:37:15 - 00:20:42:14
Cullen
The years and even specified in the movie either or at any of that. Like it's just credits that in the near future.
00:20:42:14 - 00:21:07:12
Clark
And they even talk about they talked about how they specifically did that, you know, that they didn't want to date it. They didn't want to put, you know, you know, in 1999, you know, or something like that. But but I'm pretty sure that the television broadcast were a fundamental original part of the script. And the television broke the news broadcast and the commercials, I think, do the heavy lifting of creating the world.
00:21:07:12 - 00:21:27:14
Clark
And it's a totally it's a really brilliant idea. Right. Because, you know, whether it's, you know, the commercial for the 6000 as U.S., this futuristic car, which is a hilarious parody of of American vehicles less so in the in the mid or late eighties and more so in the seventies but that was we were in a transition period.
00:21:27:14 - 00:22:02:14
Clark
They're entering the malaise era of American vehicles but you've got the heart transplant commercial where you get a sense that this is like really common. Right. And it also is interesting in that it it kind of, you know, now we have so many like pharmaceutical companies advertising directly to consumers. And so this kind of was, you know, kind of guessed that that was going to happen a little bit, you know, with this like heart transplant stuff being directly, you know, directly some.
00:22:02:14 - 00:22:03:20
Cullen
Marketing thing marketed.
00:22:03:20 - 00:22:27:02
Clark
To consumers. And it and it's on a lot of little levels. That's fine. I mean because it's also you've got obesity epidemics and so of course, you know the heart thing kind of you know kind of is a little bit little bit and yeah, all this stuff. But but I guess and the news broadcast of course, where we kind of see that the conflict in the world and it's.
00:22:27:04 - 00:22:50:09
Cullen
So it's something that that that Verhoeven uses again in a lot like he does it in and same screenwriter Edward Neumeier in Starship Troopers it's kind of like a staple of his almost at this point. Yeah, But yeah, I think that it's so what I think is hilarious with those news broadcasts especially is that they you could honestly probably cut them into real news broadcasts Yeah.
00:22:50:12 - 00:23:12:21
Cullen
From the diamond today and they would almost seem like proper and I think that's what's so brilliant about the whole movie is that while it's such an overt satire, it's so over-the-top and stuff like that. I think what makes it so brilliant is that a lot of our world is over-the-top, too. Yeah. And so a lot of what you actually see in this and it's like you were sitting there watching it as a movie and you're going, Oh, this is ridiculous.
00:23:12:21 - 00:23:18:04
Cullen
It's hilarious, but it's actually quite pertinent to the way that things run today.
00:23:18:04 - 00:23:41:07
Clark
And it's not that crazy in a way. I mean, it's it's actually not that crazy, which is kind of sad. But yeah, I mean, if you look at commercials, if you take if you kind of like are able to step outside of yourself, get a little objectivity and you take a look at what commercials advertise and you take a look at, you know, the politics and the violence that exist in our world.
00:23:41:07 - 00:23:54:11
Clark
And, of course, you know, the privatization of of law enforcement to some extent. But most like prison. You know, you take a look at the militarization of police force, which is just explode over Reaganism.
00:23:54:11 - 00:23:54:14
Cullen
Yeah.
00:23:54:16 - 00:24:13:01
Clark
And so many of these things. Right. And kind of neo liberalism and the Reagan 80 is and, you know, all of this stuff, you're like, wow, you know, a lot of the things that they were speaking to there. Yeah, it's not that far fetched. It's it's not that much of an exaggeration, you know, And I guess that's kind of the point.
00:24:13:01 - 00:24:31:13
Clark
It's like, how do you how do you satire something that's already outrageous? You really have to take it to extremes. And I think that's what Verhoeven does here. And that's you know, we talked it's interesting, You know, of course, this film had a hard time achieving an R rating. They had to excise some of the violence in order to keep from it having an X rating.
00:24:31:22 - 00:24:52:00
Clark
And and I and you and I were talking about this a little bit before our recording, but it you know, in a way, it's funny, the MPAA actually did them you know, they I think they they did themselves a disservice if they wanted the film to appear less of less violent or disturbing. They should have allowed that violence to remain, because.
00:24:52:03 - 00:25:09:09
Cullen
That's yeah, that's one of the things that Paul Verhoeven himself says. Yes, he's like he was almost like terrified when they were like, Cut this, this, this and this because he was like, It's going to make it to these violent scenes down. Then it's going to seem intentional. Yeah, seem like, like the violence is supposed to be violent and disturbing.
00:25:09:09 - 00:25:09:23
Clark
And it was.
00:25:09:23 - 00:25:28:19
Cullen
Meant to be when it was over the top, when there was a minute straight of the guy getting shot in the boardroom. And and, you know, Murphy's death was so much more violent and things like that. And it was very clearly supposed to be over the top. And it was very clearly a joke. And he was sort of like I was horrified when they're like, cut that down.
00:25:29:18 - 00:25:50:08
Cullen
And I think that that's a big reason. I think there was like, if I'm not correct, too, like censorship of the movie in the UK as well. And that was like a huge issue for him because he was like, no, it's it's the bigger you go, the more clear is that it's a joke. And so I don't actually know if I've ever seen the censor like that that really cut down versions of the movie other than when I first saw it in TV.
00:25:50:13 - 00:26:08:19
Cullen
Yeah, but I don't really remember that. That's not, of course, the version that sticks in my head. So I think that at least to me, it was always very clear that the violence was like over and over the top and, and nuts, because I can't imagine taking it any other way. But I can understand verhoeven's kind of like fear.
00:26:08:19 - 00:26:29:03
Cullen
It's kind of like the same thing that, you know, when Hitchcock released Psycho and people took it seriously, he did an interview, I think, a year later, and he was like, I was horrified to find out that people thought that it was supposed to be serious, right? He was like playing everything so tongue in cheek. But he was like the fact that people watch that movie and thought that it was, you know, supposed to be genuine and grounded and like a drama was was like glorifying it.
00:26:29:03 - 00:26:34:22
Cullen
I think Verhoeven is kind of, you know, speaking the same sort of tune there. Yeah, I'm singing the same tune.
00:26:34:23 - 00:26:55:09
Clark
Well, all I have is my memory of the way I felt when I saw it and I saw the, you know, the censored version. There may be multiple censored versions. I'm not sure if other countries had to censor in different ways, but in the United States, there were a couple of, like you said, the boardroom execution with Ed to old age shooting the executive that was that was cut down.
00:26:55:17 - 00:27:10:17
Clark
And I think there was like a a show where they are executing Mary Murphy, Sara murphy, and and he's shot in the head. I think that was maybe trimmed a little bit, which is a shame because it's a really cool puppet shot.
00:27:11:05 - 00:27:11:21
Cullen
Yeah, it's a.
00:27:12:01 - 00:27:12:14
Clark
Fantastic.
00:27:12:19 - 00:27:13:04
Cullen
Puppet.
00:27:13:06 - 00:27:21:21
Clark
Yeah. Yeah. And it really, really looks amazing. I mean, honestly, if I didn't go as a puppet, I probably could have you know, I probably would have bought it, you know, if I had known before.
00:27:21:21 - 00:27:25:06
Cullen
I didn't know it was, but I bought it the other day when I was talking to the.
00:27:25:07 - 00:27:25:12
Clark
Yeah.
00:27:25:13 - 00:27:28:23
Cullen
It's actually one of the I guess they just attach like a squib to his head or something. Yeah.
00:27:28:23 - 00:27:47:07
Clark
Yeah, yeah. It's, it's really, really well done. But I, but I guess my and also I'm 11 so you have to put it in that context. I see it when I'm 11. I mean I was definitely affected by the violence. I definitely I wasn't silly. I mean, you know, your love and a lot of the humor and satire is going to fly over your head, although I think some of it did land even at 11.
00:27:47:12 - 00:27:57:05
Clark
But I mean, I definitely was affected by the violence. It definitely disturbed me. I remember sitting in the theater and just being like, you know, mouth agape, like, oh, my.
00:27:57:05 - 00:28:14:17
Cullen
Yeah. I remember the one scene that really disturbed me as a kid and that like, really, I was like, Oh my God, was the the boardroom, as I remember with him all like, the guy is innocent and it's just a mistake that he gets shot and they walk out afterwards and they're all just like talking about it. And, you know, they're like my favorite line now in the movie.
00:28:14:17 - 00:28:16:17
Cullen
One of them is like, Oh, that's life in the big city.
00:28:16:19 - 00:28:17:09
Clark
Yeah, that's.
00:28:17:09 - 00:28:18:10
Cullen
Like after that, this guy.
00:28:18:10 - 00:28:20:06
Clark
Is just nonchalant. Yeah. And.
00:28:20:20 - 00:28:31:09
Cullen
And so but I remember as a kid, like that scene, I was like, oh my gosh, like, that guy just died. It'd be in for no reason. There was a mistake and it was like, I remember feeling bags like nobody's helping them and stuff and.
00:28:31:09 - 00:28:59:09
Clark
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Which is the point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, but then you have on the flipside though, you know Verhoeven, I mean there's a lot of humor that even even you can get as a kid. Yeah. I mean you've got at 209 who while at the same time as this menacing robot that you know, of course is, is, is humorously deficient, you know, and where you've got him trying to go downstairs, I mean, here is this like this like powerful, you know, menacing makes.
00:28:59:09 - 00:29:01:03
Cullen
The lion roar, noises and.
00:29:01:03 - 00:29:07:22
Clark
All this firepower, but yet it's completely defeated by a flight of stairs. You know, That's hilarious.
00:29:07:23 - 00:29:08:03
Cullen
Oh.
00:29:08:11 - 00:29:10:08
Clark
Yeah. Yeah. So that and.
00:29:10:09 - 00:29:11:16
Cullen
Squealing like a pig as it.
00:29:11:21 - 00:29:17:17
Clark
Squeals like a pig. I mean, this is like Looney Tunes stuff. This is cartoon type violence, you know?
00:29:18:01 - 00:29:32:06
Cullen
And I my favorite thing about the ad to a 92 is that in like a lot of other movies like this, they would be some formidable foe but they apart from the one a little bit when they're in the the like the actual office and it's shooting the rockets at them really don't pose that much of a threat.
00:29:32:06 - 00:29:41:12
Cullen
And that's kind of what I love about it is that they're never really this big, you know, threatening like a machine. It's that they're just always so it's like they're.
00:29:41:18 - 00:29:42:07
Clark
Behind.
00:29:42:17 - 00:29:43:16
Cullen
The people. Exactly.
00:29:43:16 - 00:29:59:01
Clark
And that machine that are menacing and terrible and dangerous. Yeah, the machine itself is kind of really it's a poorly executed. And they even mention it and it's like, this is a piece of crap, but it's going to make us a ton of money. Who cares if it works? I don't care if it works.
00:29:59:01 - 00:30:00:03
Cullen
That's what it says. We've already shipped.
00:30:00:03 - 00:30:07:00
Clark
They're going to sell parts for this for 15 years. It's going to be a you know, it's going to be a cash cow for a couple of decades.
00:30:07:00 - 00:30:28:05
Cullen
You know, that's the point, is that that's why it kills the guy in the boardroom because they're cheap. Made it right. It's like they're not they're not well-made machines. And so it's really it's like hitting on this whole idea of this, again, this like corporate culture and especially in the eighties. So, so hard like it's not it's not subtle in the way it does it, which I think it works so much in the movies favor.
00:30:28:09 - 00:30:56:22
Clark
Yeah yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, there's are some other interesting things, too, to kind of point out just about, you know, I think so some themes or some messages that verhoeven's kind of stuffed in here. I mean, it'd be it'd be remiss to not kind of mention some of the Jesus metaphors, the Christ metaphors in the film. Of course, you know, there's a few moments where RoboCop definitely you can see where Verhoeven kind of had a Jesus metaphor in mind for him.
00:30:56:23 - 00:31:09:12
Clark
I think where he's kind of crucified by the gang is reminiscent of that, you know, kind of torture and crucifixion of Jesus. Of course, we have at the end of the film, RoboCop even walks on water.
00:31:09:20 - 00:31:11:13
Cullen
Which yes, which is interesting.
00:31:11:16 - 00:31:36:10
Clark
And of course Verhoeven has admitted not, you know, or at least discussed and maybe admitted is the wrong word. It's not like he was trying to hide it, but he's discussed how he did kind of want to make RoboCop an American Christ figure that that he was just interested in kind of the story and metaphor of Jesus. And he felt like some of those aspects would be interesting to incorporate into the character.
00:31:36:10 - 00:31:52:12
Clark
And I think that does definitely come across, even if not consciously. I think it's definitely comes across even kind of, you know, like that, you know, nailing the nails into the hands is kind of, you know, symbolized with the shotgun.
00:31:52:12 - 00:31:54:20
Cullen
And Yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess. Yeah. Shot in the hand.
00:31:54:20 - 00:32:17:14
Clark
It just adds some extra elements. But I think, you know, all of these things, it's the satire, the humor, you know, some of these Jesus metaphors. We even have interesting kind of way that that gender is dealt with in the film. I think, you know, I think in a lot of films, especially of this era, Nancy Allen's character would have been sexualized, would have been, you know, a love interest or something of that type.
00:32:17:14 - 00:32:31:22
Clark
And it's they don't even remotely go there. She's that DC actualized. She is you know her hair is cut short. The clothes are completely you know they're covering any kind of way that you might be able to tell the gender.
00:32:32:04 - 00:32:34:01
Cullen
Yeah she's not she's never in some.
00:32:34:03 - 00:32:56:22
Clark
She's never Yeah yeah and we have you know in the beginning of the film when we're in the, the locker room, the police, you know, both, you know, everybody shares the same locker room there is and it's no big deal. It's, you know, nudity is not sexualized. It's just matter of fact, you know, these are things that you don't often see, especially in a film from that era, especially in a genre of action film.
00:32:56:22 - 00:33:04:03
Clark
I mean, it's quite the opposite, right? You'd usually see gratuitous nudity. Oh, yeah. And hypersexualization.
00:33:04:17 - 00:33:07:00
Cullen
Yeah. And there'd be a love scene and it'd be Yeah, yeah.
00:33:07:00 - 00:33:19:07
Clark
Well, would be love, it'd be sex. But it's just. Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah. But, but that's usually what you would see, right? I mean, matter of fact, like, you know, a studio would demand it, they'd be like, yeah, well we got, you know, you got to have.
00:33:19:12 - 00:33:20:10
Cullen
We got to sell tickets.
00:33:20:11 - 00:33:41:06
Clark
We got to sell tickets, man. So that's it. That's interesting. I feel like those things really stand out and together are a big part of why this film endures and why it kind of stands apart from so much of the other stuff that was made in this space at that time. What else? I mean, there's some, you know, on the special effects side.
00:33:41:06 - 00:33:44:06
Clark
I mean, we talked about a little bit of this, but I think.
00:33:44:06 - 00:33:48:04
Cullen
Yeah, it's well, it's Phil Tippett did all the stop motion who's like a legend.
00:33:48:08 - 00:34:04:00
Clark
Right? And, and I love it. The stop motion work for Ed tonight is great. You know, they had, of course, like a small is small, like not by, say, small. I don't know exactly how big they were, but of course, like fractional sizes of the 209, They also had, I think, some full size.
00:34:04:03 - 00:34:11:13
Cullen
Yes. Yeah. There's a few moments where it's full size. I don't think the full sized one ever or anything. Yeah, I think it could swivel, but I don't think it ever moves.
00:34:11:13 - 00:34:33:23
Clark
And that's it's just so the actors could stand next to it, you know. But I think the puppet work is fantastic. I mean, the stop motion, of course, this is stuff we don't see in today's day and age. This would absolutely be done with CGI today, but I just love it. Maybe it's because I grew up on it and you know, it's obvious you look at it with a modern eye and of course it doesn't look fully realistic.
00:34:33:23 - 00:34:36:05
Clark
But I it's it's interesting.
00:34:36:05 - 00:34:51:00
Cullen
It really Well, I think it's I think it's it's yeah. Like it's integrated in a way that it feels like it's in the scene, even if it does look sort of janky and stop motion. But yeah, I also grew up doing stop motion so I any stop motion I love but me too.
00:34:51:01 - 00:34:55:01
Clark
With yeah, with your toys. You do. You did stop motion with like action figures and things. Yeah.
00:34:55:01 - 00:34:57:20
Cullen
Yeah. Action figures. Legos play. Yeah, yeah.
00:34:58:04 - 00:35:15:13
Clark
So, yeah. So I'm the same and so it speaks to my heart a little bit. But of course I grew up where stop motion and practical effects were all that. I mean, that was the state of the art when I was a kid and so many of the films that I watched. But but even also, I mean, there's a lot of especially on the low budget, I'm really impressed with the matte paintings.
00:35:15:13 - 00:35:20:18
Clark
For example, you know, they, they shot in Dallas primarily. So like.
00:35:21:03 - 00:35:25:05
Cullen
Yeah, except for I think there's like if there's of course the overhead helicopter shots of Detroit but.
00:35:25:22 - 00:35:46:22
Clark
Some stock photos there's like not photo sorry there's some stock footage of to kind of establish that it's in Detroit. Of course that's where the building supposed to be. The like the steel factory where a lot of it takes place was shot in Pittsburgh and then the bulk of it was shot in Dallas. And the the the the landscape, you know, the cityscape.
00:35:47:06 - 00:35:49:22
Cullen
Yeah. Like the OCP headquarters of the Dallas City Hall.
00:35:50:03 - 00:36:00:07
Clark
And they did a great job of taking those buildings and turning them into something, you know, unique and kind of futuristic. With the matte paintings, I think there's the elevator or the exterior elevator shots.
00:36:00:12 - 00:36:01:04
Cullen
Oh, it's great.
00:36:01:04 - 00:36:25:11
Clark
Yeah, really well done with the matte paintings. Just fun stuff, you know, a little bit of, you know, the OCP, their logos everywhere. And you'd already mentioned the Ford Taurus, which was, you know, now, of course, we look at the car and you'd say, Yeah, yeah. But at the time it was a brand new car. It had really not been released to the public and it was really considered to be very futuristic design for its time.
00:36:25:11 - 00:36:27:17
Clark
And so it was ingenious to use.
00:36:27:17 - 00:36:42:13
Cullen
But it's actually something that I hadn't noticed. Like you mentioned, the logos, the OCP logos, I hadn't noticed until I saw it in theaters that they are in the police badges and on the cars and like inside the police insignia, there's the OCP logo. It's written on it, which I think is just like a great little touch.
00:36:42:16 - 00:37:01:01
Clark
It's a great touch on it. And again, it's like a little piece of world building that just shows that OCP is everywhere. They own everything and they're kind of on omniscient, you know, omnipresent and kind of this this fascist kind of, you know, overhanging umbrella over everything.
00:37:01:01 - 00:37:05:14
Cullen
But they put their logo on everything. And they're not they're concerned about profit over everything else.
00:37:05:14 - 00:37:07:12
Clark
Over everything else, which of course. Yeah.
00:37:07:14 - 00:37:28:20
Cullen
It's which I also think is hilarious too that there's this element to of like there's not there nobody in the corporate world is a good person but there are the corporate people that are like better than the other corp. Like there's some corporate people who are better people, right, than other corporate people, right? Yeah, but none of them are good.
00:37:28:20 - 00:37:30:00
Cullen
They're all they're all horrible.
00:37:30:00 - 00:37:32:01
Clark
People, right? Because you've got the older guy, you've got.
00:37:32:01 - 00:37:33:14
Cullen
Like the guy that's kind of the CEO.
00:37:33:14 - 00:37:43:06
Clark
The CEO or kind of the founder. He's kind of like the founder. And it's like, yeah, my goodness. I mean, if you think about it rationally for a second, he's the worst of all. I mean, he's the head of the whole darn thing.
00:37:43:06 - 00:37:48:05
Cullen
He starts out with the big speech about how, like, crime is a cancer that has to be written out of society.
00:37:48:09 - 00:38:07:17
Clark
But you actually kind of but we cheer for him being saved like we you cheer for him being saved by RoboCop, you know. Yeah. And then you've got, of course, that. Oh, fantastic. We can get into performances toward a second, but you've got Miguel Ferrer, you know, his character. I mean, he's this, like, ruthless, up and coming executive, you know, cutthroat guy.
00:38:07:17 - 00:38:29:21
Clark
And but, but you we root for him, too, because it's like, you know, he wants RoboCop to be a good product. He is trying to make a good you know, to make a good thing that's better than dead. 209 that's going to actually work and and and then, you know, of course, he's assassinated and you like you care that he's killed, you're like, oh man, you know, you feel for him a little bit.
00:38:30:01 - 00:38:35:20
Clark
Yeah. Yeah, you're right. All these characters are not great people, but they're also not cardboard people.
00:38:35:20 - 00:38:37:12
Cullen
No, there's, like, different levels.
00:38:37:12 - 00:38:38:11
Clark
Of two dimensional.
00:38:38:12 - 00:38:58:00
Cullen
Yeah, it's. It's dick. Who's the. The dick. Yeah. In the movie he's. He's definitely the worst of them all. But yeah, but again, it's like they're all these corporate suits who are just there for profit. So I think that that's what's so funny. Like, I would almost argue that like with the exception of very few characters ever, one of this movie, there's like a sleaze too.
00:38:58:11 - 00:38:59:15
Cullen
There's like this very.
00:38:59:15 - 00:39:02:00
Clark
Nancy Allen and Peter Weller don't.
00:39:02:00 - 00:39:03:14
Cullen
Have kind of the only two that are.
00:39:04:06 - 00:39:23:21
Clark
Perhaps listed as pretty as, like, universally good people. Yeah, yep, yep, yep. So let's talk a little bit more. You know, we talked about stop motion, we talked about matte paintings. I mean, we've got to talk about the suit. Of course you got to talk about the suit and I think and some makeup and practical effects, which I think are amazing here.
00:39:24:20 - 00:39:31:09
Clark
And if I'm not mistaken, didn't I mean, refresh my memory, who worked on some of the practical effects? Because didn't somebody come from the cast.
00:39:31:14 - 00:39:36:15
Cullen
Of Robert, uh, Steven DePuy? Um, Craig Isaac.
00:39:37:04 - 00:39:40:09
Clark
I feel like somebody came from the thing and I.
00:39:40:09 - 00:39:41:22
Cullen
Saw Fly the Fly or.
00:39:41:22 - 00:39:42:07
Clark
The fly.
00:39:42:07 - 00:39:52:19
Cullen
Oh, no, no, sorry. Yeah. Robert did also do the thing. You did the thing. That's right. And I think it was Steven DePuy who might have done work on the fly.
00:39:53:05 - 00:39:53:14
Clark
Yeah.
00:39:54:00 - 00:39:55:17
Cullen
So it was like a collection of good.
00:39:55:17 - 00:40:02:19
Clark
Yes. This is a really great pedigree. I mean, the fly has extraordinary special effects and practical effects, other things.
00:40:02:20 - 00:40:12:04
Cullen
Which remind me a lot of the melting at the end. Yeah. When a guy gets the toxic waste, which is like the best, you know, that's the scene I hope that the audience is. Oh, it's highly high.
00:40:12:12 - 00:40:26:06
Clark
Yeah, I love it. I love it. Yeah. Yeah. Actor Paul McCrane gets his character, gets pushed into the huge vat of toxic waste in it. I mean, that blew me away too. As a kid. I was just like, What?
00:40:26:14 - 00:40:28:12
Cullen
Yes, You got that scene so great.
00:40:28:12 - 00:40:33:23
Clark
I think. I think for like the next ten years, I had this thought that, like, if I touched anything, toxic waste would that's.
00:40:34:01 - 00:40:37:11
Cullen
Going to happen. And it was going to, like, start going, Oh, that's such a great scene.
00:40:37:20 - 00:40:40:03
Clark
And then he's just smooshed, I mean, and then, you know.
00:40:40:05 - 00:40:43:20
Cullen
Oh, yeah, he just explodes into like just blue or green goo.
00:40:43:20 - 00:41:00:19
Clark
Like, Yeah, because he's just like, dissolved. It's like his body is like, you know, gelatin at that point. Oh my gosh, it's so good. But I mean, yet, like we've already talked a little bit about, you know, the Murphy puppet that's shot in the head. That's an extraordinary I mean, there is just a lot of great special effects, practical effects.
00:41:00:19 - 00:41:20:19
Clark
The suit. Now, it's my understanding that that suit was an absolute nightmare for going to work. And I can only imagine how horrible that was. And I mean, it's interesting, you know, it's easy to dismiss Weller's performance or to kind of take it for granted, you know, But that had to have been really hard work. And I think he doesn't.
00:41:20:19 - 00:41:45:01
Clark
A superb job. I know that, you know, it's talked about how much work he put into he studied with somebody from Juilliard for an end movement for months and months and months leading up to this. And as the story goes, you know, he did all this work. We figured out like this whole kind of set of movements of, robotic movements that was going to be a part like that, you know, basis of his character.
00:41:45:08 - 00:41:55:04
Clark
And he gets there on the first day of shooting. And first of all, because it was the first time they'd done it, they hadn't quite figured it out. It took like 9 hours to get the suit on for the first year.
00:41:55:04 - 00:41:55:11
Cullen
Yeah.
00:41:55:18 - 00:42:13:15
Clark
So the first day of shooting is gone just in time to figure out how to get him in a suit. So 9 hours. But then once he finally got the suit on, he realized that none of that preparatory work that he did with this trainer from Juilliard was going to work because the suit didn't allow him to.
00:42:13:18 - 00:42:14:11
Cullen
Move at.
00:42:14:11 - 00:42:15:16
Clark
All. Like also.
00:42:15:16 - 00:42:20:06
Cullen
I mean, think about facial like you only see the bottom half and you don't for most of the movie, you.
00:42:20:06 - 00:42:38:15
Clark
Don't even see his eyes. And what this is like, the most expressive part of an actor's face is their eyes, and they're taken away from him. So you're right. You get like the bottom, you know, you get his chin and his mouth and his his gross major motor movements. And that's like all you get from. But but look at how much he is able to do.
00:42:38:15 - 00:42:41:12
Cullen
And I think it it works so well. It works so.
00:42:41:12 - 00:43:06:19
Clark
Well. I feel like the suit has heft. It looked at me and this is a huge part of the sound effects that, you know, sound design does such so much heavy lifting on selling that suit to the set, the steps, you know, the sounds of RoboCop stepping his movements, you know, the servos or motors moving when he you know, it really does a good job selling because I can only imagine it.
00:43:06:19 - 00:43:16:00
Clark
I mean, if you take that stuff away, like imagine in your mind, take away all the sound effects and imagine what that suit actually sounded like in live audio on set. I mean, it probably.
00:43:16:08 - 00:43:16:16
Cullen
Was like.
00:43:16:16 - 00:43:18:12
Clark
Squeaking clicking plastic.
00:43:19:06 - 00:43:22:07
Cullen
The and that would even the POV shots I think works so well.
00:43:22:08 - 00:43:23:21
Clark
Oh we haven't talked about the poster.
00:43:23:21 - 00:43:28:18
Cullen
Yeah. They use a lot of P.O.V. with these wonderful tech overlays and stuff like that.
00:43:28:21 - 00:43:45:04
Clark
And you know, I tried to get an understanding and I couldn't quite grasp how this was done. And I'm going to ask you, I don't mean to put you on the spot here while we're recording, but you know, the scan line overlay was really interesting to me and I was trying to kind of suss out how they did that from a technical perspective.
00:43:45:09 - 00:44:00:02
Clark
Now, my first thought was like that they had like an actual kind of like shaped piece of glass or something that they might have put over the lens to to kind of distort the light in ridges that way. But I don't think that's how they do it.
00:44:00:08 - 00:44:07:17
Cullen
I wouldn't be surprised if it was an early digital like as Tron was 82. So five years prior? I don't think so.
00:44:07:17 - 00:44:09:18
Clark
I don't think there were any digital effects. Okay.
00:44:09:18 - 00:44:19:13
Cullen
So then it could have been it also could have been something that was like painted like like I think you think of like how lightning used to be done, where it was like painted into the frame on the, on the actual.
00:44:19:13 - 00:44:24:18
Clark
So yeah, so maybe somebody knows if Yeah, if anybody knows out there. But I was just really intrigued.
00:44:25:04 - 00:44:31:07
Cullen
If I was going to guess it would be painted if there were for sure no digital effects in the movie, then yeah, I would, I would guess that it was painted.
00:44:31:09 - 00:44:38:11
Clark
Yeah, I just take it. But it's funny, if you kind of think about it for a second, it's kind of funny that RoboCop has such low resolution vision.
00:44:38:21 - 00:44:41:11
Cullen
Yeah. No. Yeah. That it's all like, blurred and he's.
00:44:41:11 - 00:44:45:03
Clark
Got like two feet. He's got like 240. I like visions.
00:44:45:03 - 00:44:46:11
Cullen
You can see the Scanlon, You.
00:44:46:11 - 00:45:04:12
Clark
Can like the scan lines are like giant, you know. But no, but it, they did a great job of you. And I think that's another thing that really sets this film apart. You know, that they're POV stuff. I mean, it's. It's humanizing it. Well, in a way, it's it's just entertaining. It's interesting. Of course, Terminator did this, too, but we get to see inside.
00:45:04:12 - 00:45:14:08
Clark
I mean, it's like that's what you want as an audience. You're like, what is it like in there? You know, what is what does it feel like to be RoboCop? And I just love that Verhoeven gives that to you as an audience. You get to see.
00:45:14:11 - 00:45:25:18
Cullen
This, you see him like picking out things and targeting and I love also the effect when he's unscrewing the helmet and how they just had the screws basically in the drill. So as it looked like it was coming.
00:45:25:18 - 00:45:27:01
Clark
It looks like it's coming out, it's.
00:45:27:05 - 00:45:47:10
Cullen
Great. And then they would just cut to another real shot of drills coming out of a prop and yeah you know it's it's they did a lot of again it's like what you kind love about especially movies of that era and then stuff is that everything is like a different trick you know it's very much you get that feeling of like a magic show where it's like that's how are we going to trick people into believing that this you know what?
00:45:47:10 - 00:46:08:07
Clark
And I guess that's part of what I love more about. I just love that more than CGI. And I maybe that's what it is. It's like. It's magic. I, I know when I go see a magician perform, that magic isn't real. Of course I know that it's not real. But what makes it intriguing is that I know they are actually doing something in front of the illusion.
00:46:08:07 - 00:46:31:14
Clark
Yeah, well, I know that it's hard work. It's. It's like athleticism. It's. It's. I mean, there's a lot that goes into sleight of hand. It's extremely difficult to do to make those illusions work. It feels a little like cheating when it's just CGI. Yes. I mean, I you know, look, I, I know CGI is here to stay and I know it's a valuable part of filmmaking.
00:46:31:14 - 00:46:49:10
Clark
I get it. I'm not you know, it's here. What can you do? But I guess there's just a little part of me that's like these things that you describe, these small tricks that feels like magic to me. And I, even though I know how it's done when I watch the film, I appreciate it. And it just could be that I'm, you know, that I'm old and that's how I grew up.
00:46:49:10 - 00:47:24:07
Clark
But I do want to say too, real quick, we were talking about those POV shots. There's more than just like the fun of kind of getting to see RoboCop and and, you know, and kind of this fulfillment to the audience of like letting us see what's happening inside this character. But it's also a really powerful tool to humanize RoboCop when he has a flashbacks of his family and when he goes back to his home and he's looking through the this, this empty shell of a home and the the photographs and the remnants, the burned remnants of his old life and his old humanity, we get to see that through his eyes.
00:47:24:13 - 00:47:27:19
Cullen
Yeah. Yeah. And it's and feel that humanization coming back to him.
00:47:27:21 - 00:47:38:10
Clark
And I think this is like what This is one of many things that that layers to this film that a lot of films that could be made like this wouldn't have. And I think it really does work to set it up.
00:47:38:10 - 00:47:43:11
Cullen
Well, I've never seen the remake. I know you haven't either, but I know it was shot again, like a.
00:47:43:14 - 00:47:44:19
Clark
No even worse 90.
00:47:44:19 - 00:47:46:03
Cullen
Seconds down the street from No.
00:47:46:04 - 00:47:48:16
Clark
So you did see it? I actually have seen. Oh, okay.
00:47:48:16 - 00:47:50:11
Cullen
Have you seen any of that in the remake?
00:47:50:11 - 00:47:51:20
Clark
But I can't remember it. Yeah.
00:47:51:20 - 00:47:53:09
Cullen
Okay, fair enough.
00:47:53:09 - 00:48:03:10
Clark
Yeah. Yeah. It was like it was so much of a non. I can't even remember it. It's not even that. I'm like, Oh, it sucked. It's like I literally an indifferent. I can't even.
00:48:03:10 - 00:48:07:05
Cullen
Remember. I just remember it being cool when they were making it because there's a bunch of people, you know.
00:48:07:05 - 00:48:08:15
Clark
Sam Right down the street. Yeah.
00:48:09:03 - 00:48:30:09
Cullen
In my backyard, pretty much. But, um, no, yeah, I, I've never seen it, so I again. And you can't read, so I, I don't want to say there's none of that, but I wouldn't be surprised if they glossed over a lot of that stuff because you don't even see you never see his family live in this movie. Not that they die, but I mean, you never see, like, a live moment, right?
00:48:30:09 - 00:48:32:05
Cullen
Like him going home to them, Right?
00:48:32:05 - 00:48:34:14
Clark
You only see in flashbacks. Yeah. Yeah. It's only I think.
00:48:34:15 - 00:48:52:04
Cullen
It and I think it's a really great you know, this movie is so efficient in its storytelling in the way that it is able to just. It shows you what you need to see in order to feel the feelings of it. I'm sure if there was a moment at the beginning of the movie where it's like he's like at home with them and, oh, you know, I've got to go to work.
00:48:52:04 - 00:48:56:07
Cullen
See, I've been transferred this and it would just be like it really slow it down.
00:48:56:07 - 00:48:56:19
Clark
Whereas yeah.
00:48:57:07 - 00:49:18:11
Cullen
Verhoeven And I assume this was also from the screenplay as well, where they just knew what needed to be seen, what what, what's important to the story. Everything moves along really nicely and yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's lovely. The I mean lovely might not be the best word for it, but it's okay. It's, it's, it's charming. It's very.
00:49:18:11 - 00:49:40:10
Clark
Charming. It is. It is. And you really for and it's just there's a lot of pieces to that. I mean it's, you know, it's from the script, it's verhoeven's direction. It's the actors performances, which are universally great. I mean, we've talked about Peter Weller, but we've not talked about Kurtwood Smith. And, you know, a hero is only as good as is his villain or her villain.
00:49:40:17 - 00:50:03:09
Clark
And Kurtwood Smith's villain is just outstanding in this film. He you know, I know he did a lot of improvization there, you know, and it works. I mean, a lot of the a lot of his best lines were improvised. And and he's just he's he's fantastic. He's got this really fixated, you know, just Yeah. And he's got his own sense of humor, which is fantastic.
00:50:03:09 - 00:50:04:00
Cullen
He's so good.
00:50:04:01 - 00:50:11:07
Clark
Yeah. You know, I mean, so not only is he is he terrifying and scary, but he's also hysterical and he's.
00:50:11:12 - 00:50:19:12
Cullen
He turns into a wimp at the moment. Just rats everyone else. But yeah, you know, then he comes back into the boardroom and he's flirting with the the receptionist and.
00:50:19:18 - 00:50:20:07
Clark
Yeah, it's that.
00:50:20:08 - 00:50:23:15
Cullen
Fast. Then it's like there's this. He's just the he's such a great.
00:50:23:19 - 00:50:25:04
Clark
It's so fun to.
00:50:25:04 - 00:50:29:15
Cullen
Go around again. Like it's, it's one of the things like all the characters in the movie are so well rounded.
00:50:30:03 - 00:50:36:10
Clark
Nancy Allen I think is great. She gets a chance to be, you know, tough and and almost equal hero.
00:50:36:19 - 00:50:54:04
Cullen
Even at the end when she almost dies. I like how again, it's like such a part of this charm of this movie that it's not you know, there's no moment where he runs over to her and he's like holding her and he's like, Oh, and she's just kind of like, It's okay, they'll fix you, right? Like, it's this great, like, almost comedic bit.
00:50:54:19 - 00:50:57:02
Cullen
Yeah. Yeah. And he says to her because he's just like, it's fine.
00:50:57:22 - 00:51:31:09
Clark
Yeah. They'll, they'll, they'll fix you. They fix everything. Yes. What he says what he says. Yeah. But I mean, but she holds her own you know, and I really do appreciate that she's not some damsel in distress that needs to be saved by RoboCop. Not. Not at all. Yeah. Which is. Which is, I think what you'd have in a lot of other scripts that could have been made, you know, you'd have or you'd have some kind of romantic relationship, some weird, inappropriate like he you know, he's a robot now, but, you know, there's like some some love affair going on somehow with that, you know, I can just see that happening.
00:51:31:16 - 00:51:38:22
Clark
And I'm grateful they don't go there. But if we you know who else I mean, the welfare is he's fantastic. He's fantastic.
00:51:39:09 - 00:51:41:18
Cullen
He's, you know, doing. Yeah, but but you.
00:51:41:21 - 00:51:44:03
Clark
Know, he's not even but he's not just sleaze. I mean.
00:51:44:06 - 00:51:47:02
Cullen
No he's yeah he's, he's again he's got aspirations, he's.
00:51:47:03 - 00:51:56:18
Clark
He's got aspirations and it's like when he's killed you like feel bad for him, you know. I mean he's like kneecapped and then left to, you know, to blow up in his house. I mean, yeah.
00:51:56:18 - 00:52:04:08
Cullen
He's kind of what you assume the villain is going to be, but he's like a red herring in that way. He is. And he, he's killed off and it's it's well and you know.
00:52:04:09 - 00:52:20:20
Clark
And because there's layers of bad guys right. And it's like but I think it's does a great job, you know, it really does a great job if you think about, you know, how many people have to work at a company and that kind of like let bad things happen for big things to go bad, right? It's like, you know, it's because that's the thing.
00:52:20:20 - 00:52:39:10
Clark
It's like, well, I'm just you know, I'm just an employee. I just work there. I'm just trying to get by mean that's how like, things turn horrible. It's, you know, Yeah. Yes, there's a person at the top who has some kind of, like, you know, sociopathic, you know, ideas maybe about how what a company's role is in the world.
00:52:39:10 - 00:52:49:09
Clark
And and that stockholder profits are the only thing that matters. But but for that to you also have to have a lot of employees working at that company who.
00:52:49:09 - 00:52:51:19
Cullen
Also going on either line. Yeah. And then you.
00:52:51:19 - 00:52:58:21
Clark
Also have to have a lot of stockholders who don't care and don't ask questions. And that's exactly what happens in the real life. So it's and.
00:52:58:21 - 00:53:19:11
Cullen
I think that's perhaps what the I call it, kind of the Verhoeven curse, which is the shame of a lot of Verhoeven's works that he is such a like to me like brilliant satirist that oftentimes the satire goes over a lot of people's heads. I've seen people discussing this movie and discussing Starship Troopers thinking that they are 100%, you know, serious and in on what they're.
00:53:19:18 - 00:53:20:18
Clark
Really going.
00:53:20:18 - 00:53:39:11
Cullen
For, what they're doing. And really so, you know yeah. Which I think is I'll take it very like it's bizarre to me because it seems very obvious to me. But I think that it's yeah, it's just one of those things that it's like it. I can't imagine watching this movie and not coming away with it, thinking that it's a satire, it's a cartoon culture and corporatism and neo liberalism.
00:53:39:11 - 00:53:57:15
Cullen
But right. But it it really I think, well, all that it's does is it does that really well because things are so well rounded and so like there's a lot of as heightened as the movie is, there's a lot of realism in the things that are being presented. Yeah, there's very real elements to this movie.
00:53:57:16 - 00:53:59:07
Clark
It's gritty. It's gritty.
00:53:59:07 - 00:54:06:10
Cullen
Yeah, exactly. It's very gritty and it's very, you know, unapologetic in what it's kind of going after and making fun of.
00:54:06:17 - 00:54:07:00
Clark
Yeah.
00:54:07:12 - 00:54:27:07
Cullen
And I think because of that, it, it feels like it could be genuine in a weird way, but it doesn't I mean, again, it's not difficult to discern what's being made fun of in this movie, but I'm not necessarily surprised that some people watch this and go like, yeah, it's it's it's like just a bad ass action movie and nothing more.
00:54:27:13 - 00:54:38:22
Cullen
Yeah. You know, it's I'm not surprised that that kind of goes over people's heads, I'm sure especially again, same thing with Starship Troopers, which of course is another it's quite similar in tone Verhoeven movie.
00:54:39:03 - 00:54:56:08
Clark
Yeah so and look it happens, it's always going to be the case and I remember like another film that's a good fight club, you know, which actually kind of is like mocking and parodying this, you know, kind of like fascist group of people who get together, you know. But what did people want to do? They wanted to start their own fight club.
00:54:56:08 - 00:55:10:06
Clark
They thought it was. Yeah, well, you know, it's this is this is like, you know, this is since the dawn of time, you know, it's totally different. Yeah. You know, you've got when you've got 100 million people watching, you know, somebody, it's a film. You're going to have percentages of people who think all kinds of different things.
00:55:10:06 - 00:55:13:21
Cullen
You're never going to solve it. So you're never going to get everyone to.
00:55:14:00 - 00:55:36:10
Clark
And that's okay. That's the same way. And that's and that's okay. And that's where and that's a totally different topic for a totally different time. But that's, you know, it's interesting questions about, you know, what is the responsibility of the artist, if any, when it comes to the responses of their work and those are those are really interesting questions for another time perhaps.
00:55:36:13 - 00:55:45:23
Clark
But yeah, well, anything else we could talk about? I mean, we've talked the soundtrack, Basil, I think. Is it Pull it? Doris His soundtrack is fantastic. Yeah, it's.
00:55:46:00 - 00:55:47:06
Cullen
One of the best in I love it.
00:55:47:06 - 00:56:00:08
Clark
And we've and the cinematography is a ghost volcano. And I wasn't terribly familiar with his work, but we looked him up. He's done work, right for some other Verhoeven Verhoeven film.
00:56:00:08 - 00:56:07:19
Cullen
Yeah, he was kind of verhoeven's go to, it seemed like until 2000, basically, which might have been, I think when he retired. Yeah.
00:56:09:04 - 00:56:16:04
Clark
But everything, everything. Just yeah, the film is firing on all cylinders. Well what more can you say. Oh it's, yeah.
00:56:16:06 - 00:56:18:12
Cullen
It not jedicke, it's bombastic, it's in.
00:56:18:12 - 00:56:22:21
Clark
It went on to of course to inspire, you know, an entire franchise which sadly.
00:56:22:21 - 00:56:24:23
Cullen
And I would say almost an entire genre.
00:56:25:01 - 00:56:45:04
Clark
Yeah, Yeah, you're right. I mean. Well, yeah, I mean, we're talking TV shows, cartoons, video games, movies, a remake and a sadly, you know, none of it has lived up to the promise of the first film. Yeah, sadly. But. But I think that just goes to show even more. You know, how rare it is to get such a talented group of people together on one project.
00:56:45:04 - 00:56:57:21
Clark
It's, you know, all the stars aligned for this. So yeah, I'm glad that we have it. And I just it's, it's a film that stuck with me. And clearly it has you to because you've picked it for this episode and what fun.
00:56:57:21 - 00:57:01:01
Cullen
And again, it's such a coincidence that I was able to see it in theaters after.
00:57:01:01 - 00:57:04:23
Clark
Picking it. I That's fantastic. Now, if only it could have been in film. But hey, that's.
00:57:05:06 - 00:57:06:00
Cullen
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:57:06:08 - 00:57:11:07
Clark
Yeah, yeah. All right. Well, I guess we'll wrap that up. Episode 40.
00:57:11:07 - 00:57:12:00
Cullen
Two.
00:57:12:08 - 00:57:28:01
Clark
Verhoeven's RoboCop. Thanks for picking this film and I really enjoyed discussing it with you. Everybody out there, I you enjoyed listening to our discussion and until next time, we'll see you all. On the flip side.