Cullen
Hi everyone. Welcome back to the Soldiers of Summer Podcast. Episode 60. I am Cullen McFater and I am joined, as always by Clark Coffey. And today we are discussing Clark's choice, the 1999 film Being John Malkovich. How are you doing today?
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Clark
I'm doing all right, man. How are you?
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Cullen
I'm good. I am good at what is being what is.
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Speaker 3
Well, what I say I'm good.
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Clark
Of course. Sadly, our audience won't get to hear your first take on that.
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Speaker 3
Oh, where? Where?
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Clark
Or maybe, who knows? Maybe I'll edit it in When you when you were a little rusty and you were trying to find your words and you were like, me is Colin. And then I thought, well, how appropriate. I mean, you know, like, what are you really Cullen McFater? Are you being Colin today? Is someone controlling you? Has someone entered a portal in some office building somewhere on the seventh and a half and.
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Cullen
Just like, you know, someone's there trying to speak through me now.
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Speaker 3
I didn't see that. Yeah. Excellent.
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Clark
I can't wait. I can't wait. Then this is going to be exciting, but yeah, yeah. So as a first of all, episode 60 who that's like, amazing. And I'm always surprised at how many of these we've done. I've just like blows my mind at. It's still fun. But yeah, I pick Being John Malkovich and as we usually do, let's kind of dive into our personal experiences with the film.
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Clark
You said you'd seen it before. Obviously we've both watched it again recently so that we can discuss it now. But I'm kind of curious to hear a little bit about when you first saw it and kind of what that experience was like and then what it was like now to to watch the film anew. And what kind of just your like initial broad stroke impressions were of the film?
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Cullen
Mm hmm. Yeah. So I first I think I first saw it when I was 18 or 19. So yeah, five or so years ago. And I remember, you know, I watched it with a friend who really, really liked it. And so I think that always kind of.
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Clark
That helps bring.
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Cullen
You into something, right? Yeah. And it was I think it was me, him and my girlfriend at the time and then somebody else. It was like a group of us. And I think he was the only one that actually seen it. I had heard of it for ages.
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Clark
And you watched on like DVD.
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Speaker 3
Or.
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Cullen
Probably a DVD or a Blu ray or something. Okay. And I remember, yeah, we were all none of us had seen it except for the one friend. But I was familiar with it. Like I knew.
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Clark
A lot of it. You knew.
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Cullen
About it? Yeah. Spike Jones. I knew Charlie Kaufman. I'd seen other Charlie Kaufman movies, actually. Yeah, and other Spike Jones movie. So I wasn't unfamiliar with with the movie at all. I just had never gotten around to seeing it.
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Clark
Right.
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Cullen
And I think I think I remember, you know, it it's both, you know, tonally predictable if you'd seen their other work. But also the same time there's, there's a certain aspect of their work that makes it kind of impossible to predict. Like you kind of you can guess if you're you know, if you're hearing that that Charlie Kaufman and Spike Jones are making a movie together, it's like, okay, I can probably understand what the tone is going to be like scene to scene right now.
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Clark
Of course.
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Cullen
Because of that, because of their way of making movies, there's also no way to predict what those scenes will actually consist of. Like there's some really genuinely funny bits in this movie that are just so nonsensical, like the speech impediment thing.
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Speaker 3
Which is, I love that.
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Cullen
Idea and just how far off you plays that the the receptionist or whatever he calls her that like his like, yeah, exceptional. You know, organizer of something or.
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Speaker 3
Yeah yeah yeah.
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Clark
Kirsten being is.
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Cullen
Such that is Yeah. Oh man he's great.
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Clark
Yeah, he's great in this film. It's one of my favorite performances. So it well, it's interesting, you know, as you describe this, I want to like delve into it a little bit more. But yeah, because you kind of have had an opposite first experience than me because when I first saw this film, it was I actually saw it in the theater on release.
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Clark
And so this is Spike. You know, obviously Spike had done skateboard videos. He had done music videos. You now, I hadn't seen any of his skateboard work, but I had seen his music videos and actually, like, you know, he was a name like he was a known entity in the music video world, unlike most music videos, because he had done, you know, pretty significant work with like the Beastie Boys, who I was a big fan of.
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Clark
So I was kind of aware of him and he was maybe one of the more prominent music video directors, and he was also like, he was kind of he was young and he was like, hipper. And, you know, he was kind of like traveled around in the skateboard world. And so these.
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Cullen
Choices visually to like, yeah, I think videos you can see these like really, really.
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Clark
Cool. Yeah, artistic choices totally and kind of rebellious in the way that he directed and what he did. And so I guess yeah, which I really wasn't familiar with at the time or, and I might have even actually kind of been, you know, that's, that's stupid. I'm not interested in that. But we could talk about that later. But I, but yeah, it was from his music videos and then I didn't have any idea who Charlie Kaufman was at this time.
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Clark
This is also his first film. So for me, going into the film, I mean, I remember watching the advertisements, right? I remember seeing like trailers and promos for it and I was like, Whoa, this like, seems so unique. Like this. This seems unlike any film I had seen before. Its premise, right? That the overall premise and kind of I was just like, what?
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Clark
You know? And it was just like, okay, wait a minute. Cusack Who's somebody I knew, you know, from way back when he was a a teen actor, right? I'd known him as an actor my whole life. And I'm like, wait, he's like this like kind of, you know, this this puppeteer, this kind of like, down and out puppeteer.
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Clark
Annie, Wait. He's working on, like, some weird seven and a half floor that's like a four and a half foot tall, like, you know, I mean, I'm like, wait a minute. They're going inside a John Malkovich. What? Like, I was mind blown, you know?
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Cullen
Yeah, this kind of meta aspect. Yeah.
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Clark
So. So you kind of saw it backwards in the sense that you went into it. You're like, okay, I know what to expect here. Okay? This, like, wackiness is definitely going to assume ensue. It's going to be like this big meta experience. Kaufman's written it, but how did you so so do you remember what you.
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Speaker 3
Felt about the film when you first saw it? Yeah, I.
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Cullen
Mean, I I'm not I have another friend, not a friend who showed me this, but I've another friend who's really like, No.
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Clark
Way, you have another. Yeah, I've.
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Cullen
Got more than one.
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Speaker 3
Okay, you have another friend. All right, cool. I just want to make sure.
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Cullen
If we can, to believe it. There's a sense, right?
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Speaker 3
I just get it.
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Cullen
Yeah, He he he really loves, like, Kaufman's work, and very much when he was in, like, film school with, like, kind of emulate him and write like him and. Yeah, this kind of again, I described it to you earlier as like, you know, they all kind of center on these, like, sex, sex deprived, lonely men kind of thing.
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Cullen
And but it's very in looking at the funny that and kind of that.
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Clark
He right but when you were when you were a kid, when you were younger and you saw it, like did you like just simply did you like it? Would you interested in it? Did you think it was like kind of what were your how did it strike you in that naive moment of not having seen it before?
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Cullen
I'm going I'm giving you the odd word. And I say it was it was surprisingly digestible.
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Speaker 3
Okay.
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Cullen
I think I expected it to be a little bit more.
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Clark
Out there in the.
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Cullen
Air and like, you know, in the clouds in a way like it was I thought it was going to be more philosophical and which is I mean, it's undoubtedly there's like a lot of yeah, personal and kind of deep philosophical meaning to a lot of it.
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Clark
Some of which potentially. Yeah, we'll discuss that when we get to themes. But it's like I.
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Speaker 3
Think that.
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Cullen
You see on the basis of I enjoyed it and I think that I it definitely I mean I didn't watch it again for, I think two years after that. Yeah. So I've seen it I think only three times, including this watch and yeah, I think it just it's strange, I think I've almost had a slightly different reaction every time I've watched it, but they've always been like positive.
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Cullen
I've never felt.
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Clark
So what did you think? So So now you've seen it recently. It's fresh in your mind and you're watching it, you know, with it with a little more of an analytical bent, obviously, because you were discussing it, what were kind of your initial, like big reactions to it this time?
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Cullen
I think it's I mean, you you you actually mentioned this, but I had similar feelings about the fact that it's visually very stripped down.
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Clark
Yeah. Which I was surprised about.
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Cullen
That hit me.
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Clark
First like.
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Cullen
That. And it's like comparing that to, again, Spike Jones work AS Yeah, like a music video producer. And again, you think of like the skateboard video as a genre and it's very superficial. I lots of handheld and cool like crazy those and things like that.
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Clark
More avant garde.
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Cullen
It was and this is very you know there's not really like not to I'm not trying to insulted or demean the movie in any way but there's not really much going on visually for like 95% of the movie.
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Clark
Yeah, I would agree. And I was really surprised by it. And look, it could very I mean, obviously these are choices that the director made. It's you know, I have to assume these are on purpose, of course. And so you have to think, well, this is meant to to kind of mirror or illustrate emphasize the lives of these characters.
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Clark
Right. But it's just this drabness, this beige ness, this flatness permeates.
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Speaker 3
So.
00:10:04:22 - 00:10:05:18
Clark
Much of the film.
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Cullen
It works for the subject. Like I think that it really it works for Cusack's character. And yeah, it's kind of bizarre. It almost grounds it in a weird way. Like, I feel like you could shoot this in a Wes Anderson style, which would be, you know, you get to the seven and a half floor and it's like.
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Clark
So cartoon almost a cartoon is zany.
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Cullen
Yeah. And whereas this almost grounds it and kind of puts you again in Cusack's shoes who is while he's not a normal guy in this he's kind of odd he is the most in the movie and so like you know his reaction to the fact that there's low ceilings and that these people are like, I have a speech impediment, I'm sure you're very.
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Speaker 3
Important to me.
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Cullen
And it's like, you know, he's always just sitting there, which I think is a great, great on his part. I think he does a really good job with the role. Yeah. But also really that again, pairing that with the visuals that kind of ground it.
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Clark
So that's interesting recognizable.
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Cullen
As like okay, so it's almost out of whack. Yes.
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Clark
So it's almost like like that's an interesting interpretation that it's almost okay visually it's it's, it's almost mundane. And I would say that like, yeah, I mean, a lot it's very utilitarian. It's very it's not stylistically shot at all, with the exception of, you know, the chase scene in the end and near the climax to Malkovich's subconscious, where we have some interesting, you know, unique shooting going on there.
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Clark
But yeah, I mean, like by and large it's, you know, even when we're inside Malkovich's mind, it's, you know, the way they treat that is just a very simple POV shot, a little bit of sound design, but it's really it's, it's very, very simply done I think, you know maybe one of the more striking scenes is when Malkovich is talking to all these other different versions of himself, if I'm not mistaken, I think he goes like inside his own mind.
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Clark
Right. And it's going And he's in a restaurant. Yeah. And he's at a restaurant. And this is.
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Cullen
Kind of Queen Mary in California that.
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Clark
Ah, that's probably at Long Beach then. And, and he's and it's actually a pretty good CGI effect for that era actually pulled off quite well.
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Cullen
Big combo It was a lot of it. Some it was CG and some of it was just the mask wearing mask. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was an ingenious way of doing it.
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Clark
Yeah. And they pull that off very well. And I think that was really interestingly stylistically done. But yeah, I mean, and maybe you're right, I was just going to say got, maybe you're right. I mean, it's an interesting interpretation that, you know, it, it keeps the film so grounded and it makes the film seem so matter of fact visually, when when the story is so outrageous.
00:12:56:09 - 00:13:19:16
Clark
And I think that's kind of one of my biggest takeaways was just how I felt like the writing, I don't want to say overwhelms, but I but, but it almost feels like like television in the sense that the writer is the primary, major creative force behind a project and usually, of course, the director is the major, you know, primary creative force in a film.
00:13:19:21 - 00:13:34:22
Clark
And it almost feels like here we have Kaufman's voice that the writing and his his premise so over. I don't want to say overwhelming because that's overwhelming has a negative connotation, but it kind of influences it so substantially.
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Speaker 3
Well, I think it's just that the.
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Clark
Kaufman's voice is so substantial in his script that it just kind of, you know, I don't get a sense as much of who Spike Jones is as a director, You know, that the things that he the personality he shows in his video work before this and even work that he's done since. Now I know this is Jones first film, his first feature.
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Clark
And, you know, it's almost like I would have expected something similar to, let's say, maybe like a PTA where his first couple films, you know, he's really working hard to prove himself. And you've got long, you know, Long Warners and, you know, a lot of like dynamic camera movement.
00:14:15:02 - 00:14:16:16
Cullen
And it was wild darling, you know?
00:14:16:16 - 00:14:17:11
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah.
00:14:17:11 - 00:14:38:07
Clark
All this kind of, you know, very, like, lyrical camera and a lot of movement going and everything in it. And you almost feel like, right, Like Jones would have come from, you know, I was, I was surprised that he didn't come to that here. Now, I'm not suggesting he should have and maybe it speaks to a confidence that he had to just you know, that the script is there, It's solid.
00:14:38:09 - 00:14:49:20
Clark
I'm telling the story and I don't need all that fancy stuff because that's kind of where PTA came later, right? When PTA matured as a filmmaker, he's very subdued.
00:14:49:20 - 00:14:50:19
Speaker 3
Yeah, I don't.
00:14:50:19 - 00:14:53:11
Clark
Need to do all these wacky things to prove myself.
00:14:53:11 - 00:15:05:16
Cullen
Which I actually just briefly on PTA, I, I prefer his more recent work because of that that like the kind of minimalist, very confident in. Yeah. Like simple setups I think.
00:15:05:16 - 00:15:11:03
Clark
Yeah and so I'm not knocking Jones at all you know for his work here I was just surprised.
00:15:11:13 - 00:15:37:09
Cullen
It it goes really I think another thing about it is that the again John Jones direction works with the subject matter like if you think about it like there's not really any like magic in of course there's a portal to John Malkovich his mind but it's played so straight and yeah even questions that Yeah and you know you could have a version of the script where they land on the top of the Empire State Building when they when they come out of his mind or something.
00:15:37:09 - 00:15:39:00
Cullen
But no, it's the New Jersey Turnpike.
00:15:39:13 - 00:15:40:07
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah.
00:15:40:09 - 00:15:59:13
Cullen
So I think that everything is you take and I think it's actually quite ingenious in the way it's written because you take this really, really fanciful, crazy, like insane idea and this really bizarre premise and but you make everything, like you said, mundane. Yeah. You're throwing the New Jersey Turnpike. It's behind a filing cabinet.
00:15:59:18 - 00:16:00:22
Speaker 3
And it's like, you know.
00:16:00:22 - 00:16:04:19
Cullen
All these things that are like, he's a puppeteer, you know, It's like.
00:16:04:19 - 00:16:05:07
Speaker 3
Yeah.
00:16:05:08 - 00:16:15:12
Cullen
You got all these things that that just everything else is so, so, so stripped down and mundane that, that the you almost are like, okay, yeah, this thing has to be real bugs or.
00:16:15:12 - 00:16:34:02
Clark
Like, you know that they have monkey like a monkey lives in the house and you know, it's like and a monkey is going through therapy, you know, or I mean it just the fact that this it's a seventh and a half. Lord And it's like half the, you know, half the the, the, the you know, the ceiling is like half as low as a regular ceiling.
00:16:34:09 - 00:16:56:11
Clark
Nobody knows it. And all of these little like, surreal. I mean, I would say they're like surreal twists. You know, I think Kaufman is obviously shown that that's, you know, I've not seen every single one of his films, but I've seen many. And I feel like, you know, he has a surreal touch to everything he does. You know, there's a surreal flavor, which I enjoy.
00:16:56:11 - 00:17:15:14
Clark
I mean, I it because it's it's especially in today's day and age with films, you know, it's I think we've said this about other films. I'd be surprised if this film could get made and distributed worldwide. You know, I mean, you know, majors, you know, major theatrical release. Yeah. A film like this in today's day and age, sadly, you know.
00:17:16:21 - 00:17:24:18
Cullen
Well, apparently New Line was originally going to like that. It was pitched to New Line. And then Rob Chase said, Why the fuck can't it be being Tom Cruise?
00:17:25:13 - 00:17:56:14
Clark
I Right, right. Why can't it be Tom Cruise? Yeah, I, I could see that, you know, and it's my understanding that I might have misheard this or misunderstood it, but it was my understanding that Kaufman wrote it specifically with Malkovich in it, and that they really stuck to their guns, that they felt it was vital for this, for Malkovich to be the actor, the celebrity that they were going into the mind of, and that it wouldn't just work if you switched it out to another to another person.
00:17:56:14 - 00:18:17:08
Clark
And I do have to say, I mean, I think that it's it's perfect. I'm like, now, obviously I'm looking backwards at a film that's art. But but it's like it would have been a different film had anybody else been used. And I think Malkovich has just this perfect. I don't know. You know what I mean? He's like, like he has this perfect level, especially back then of like.
00:18:18:07 - 00:18:20:15
Cullen
Just think John Malkovich.
00:18:20:15 - 00:18:22:19
Speaker 3
Like art. Yeah. I don't even know, like, how do you.
00:18:22:19 - 00:18:44:20
Clark
Define I know it's like, it's like John Malkovich is just John Malkovich, you know, It's like and I don't even know I actually need to look this up because I doubt it had come out. Had it come out yet. His what was that movie where he played that Russian card shark gambler guy poker dude. Do you remember What was that?
00:18:45:10 - 00:18:46:09
Cullen
What is that called?
00:18:46:14 - 00:18:51:08
Clark
It's called rounders. Okay. Yes, yes, yes. So rounders came out a year before this film.
00:18:51:15 - 00:18:52:02
Speaker 3
Now.
00:18:52:09 - 00:19:04:06
Clark
This is this is where it's like. So you've got Malkovich, right? I just want to go off on a tangent here for a little bit. You've got like he's in Dangerous Liaisons, right? He's in you know, what other films was he in the.
00:19:04:06 - 00:19:05:07
Cullen
Line of Fire.
00:19:05:08 - 00:19:14:05
Clark
Like? He's this real actor, right? Like he's an actor. Actor. And and then he's in, like, Con Air.
00:19:16:01 - 00:19:18:20
Speaker 3
Which a great Nicolas Cage, and then he's in Rounders.
00:19:18:20 - 00:19:22:01
Clark
And. And do you remember rounders? Have you seen it?
00:19:22:13 - 00:19:23:18
Cullen
I've not seen. I know it, though.
00:19:23:23 - 00:19:51:10
Clark
Okay. Okay. So he plays this character named Kitty. Sorry, Teddy KGB. So he's Russian, okay? He's supposed to be this Russian like, card shark gambler guy, right. Okay. Poker master. Okay. And he's kind of set up as the, for lack of a better term, like the villain, right? He's and he has this Russian accent after the show. You need to go look it up.
00:19:51:18 - 00:20:15:04
Clark
But it is one of the most ridiculously like I mean I mean, I think it's great. I think it's wonderful, but it's hysterical. I mean, it's so over-the-top. It's so ridiculous. So to me, like him coming off that and being in this film is just perfect. It's just perfect because it's not like he's because he's clearly a great actor, but.
00:20:15:04 - 00:20:18:19
Speaker 3
He's also in his own way, kind of goofy.
00:20:18:19 - 00:20:26:01
Clark
And kind of, you know what I mean? Like his roles have been kind of colorful. And anyway, I'm sorry to go off on a tangent here, but I.
00:20:26:01 - 00:20:30:15
Speaker 3
Thought I thought it was hysterical that it was John Malkovich.
00:20:30:15 - 00:20:36:09
Cullen
Only the first like drafts had nothing to do with the idea to, I think, going into anyone's mind.
00:20:36:18 - 00:20:37:04
Clark
Right.
00:20:37:09 - 00:20:41:19
Cullen
And that it was just supposed to be written about a guy who falls in love with someone other than his wife. And then.
00:20:42:07 - 00:20:43:00
Clark
Oh, interesting.
00:20:43:00 - 00:21:02:06
Cullen
That like in the first few scripts there was like a the floor seven and a half came in and things like that. And then it was passed a bunch like Pat, you know, just gets turned down and then Kaufman sent it to Coppola, who then passed it on to Spike Jones because he was with he was dating Sofia Coppola at the time, Right?
00:21:02:06 - 00:21:02:13
Clark
Right.
00:21:02:13 - 00:21:05:17
Cullen
Yep. And that was 1994, I think. So It was.
00:21:05:21 - 00:21:06:10
Clark
So they'd been.
00:21:06:10 - 00:21:17:11
Cullen
While. Yeah, because then they eventually got married and then divorced but and all fun fact is that it on it started shooting on my birthday so there you go. Oh, my very first birthday. So.
00:21:17:20 - 00:21:19:03
Clark
Well, there you go, baby.
00:21:19:03 - 00:21:20:03
Cullen
Your very first.
00:21:20:08 - 00:21:21:05
Speaker 3
Birthday.
00:21:21:18 - 00:21:25:09
Cullen
Right? You say in the movie, you know, when the person's born, you go and that's maybe that's when.
00:21:25:09 - 00:21:28:23
Clark
You get absorbed. You get absorbed. So maybe you had to buy.
00:21:29:00 - 00:21:29:22
Cullen
Spike Jones or something.
00:21:29:22 - 00:21:53:19
Clark
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, so. So okay, So obviously John Malkovich, he's his name in the title, but we've got some other interesting performances here. I mean, John Cusack, who again, I had kind of hinted that, you know, he'd been around for me since I was a kid, and I kind of grew up watching, you know, so many of his roles, you know, like, say, anything, the Cameron Crowe flick.
00:21:54:02 - 00:22:18:03
Clark
I thought he was actually fantastic. Not actually. I mean, it's no actually to it he was flat out fantastic in in The Grifters, which was a 1990 film. I mean, he'd just been around, right? He's been in a million films. I can't even, you know, Better Off Dead, which was a flick from my childhood, had one Crazy Summer, which is another flick from my childhood that I loved.
00:22:18:23 - 00:22:40:21
Clark
I don't know. Not many people have seen this, but Tape Heads was a film that I liked when I was a kid. So he'd just been around, you know, and done so many films. And so by the time he had come to this, you know, I was it was a fun thing for me to see him in in such an interesting role.
00:22:40:21 - 00:23:05:01
Clark
But I think he I think his performance is pretty interesting in the film. And. Yeah, and and you're right. I mean, it's very grounded. He plays it very straight there. There's all these surrealistic touches, but, you know, he plays it maybe. Well, I mean, everybody plays it pretty straight, I think, except for Orson Bean. But but yeah, I feel like his performance is quite good in the film.
00:23:05:09 - 00:23:06:08
Clark
What were your thoughts?
00:23:07:20 - 00:23:37:19
Cullen
Yeah, I mean, I like Cusack. I again he it's almost like the perfect, like inoffensive casting for the movie anyway, right? Like that. You know, he's not, um, like he's, it's kind of perfectly in sync with John Cusack or John Malkovich because you're kind of like, Oh yeah, Okay. John Cusack Yeah, like, it's not like he could get like a DiCaprio or like Tom Hanks or someone who's, you know, known here.
00:23:38:09 - 00:23:48:03
Clark
This would be interesting, though. I'd like to imagine like Leonardo DiCaprio in this film. I feel like if if Leo were in this film, there'd be a lot more crying.
00:23:48:14 - 00:23:49:17
Cullen
Yes. And screaming.
00:23:49:17 - 00:23:50:19
Clark
Yeah. And screaming.
00:23:50:19 - 00:23:55:04
Cullen
Crying and screaming. His wife in the cage would be very mad.
00:23:56:02 - 00:23:57:20
Speaker 3
Don't get me wrong. But that's what I mean. I love.
00:23:57:20 - 00:23:58:23
Clark
Leo. Yeah.
00:23:59:10 - 00:24:11:13
Cullen
That's why I kind of think that that Cusack is perfect for this. Because it's like, even when he's seems angry and is like, yelling and things like, you still almost get this idea that he's going to say sorry after every single line.
00:24:11:13 - 00:24:12:22
Clark
And, well, he's like, Yeah.
00:24:12:22 - 00:24:13:16
Cullen
Bruce character.
00:24:13:22 - 00:24:40:19
Clark
Yeah. No, I think it really does that. I mean, he kind of almost it's like, sure, he's finally in a beige, you know, cubicle farm office building because that's like, I feel like that's exactly where he'd be, you know? And I think those are a lot of the roles that he played in those movies that I had mentioned where he, you know, even though these are kind of teen comedies, fun films, he was always kind of like, I don't want to say like the Straight man, but, you know, to some extent, yeah.
00:24:41:03 - 00:25:17:19
Clark
Or he was kind of this like slightly outsider's slightly kind of disaffected, slightly, you know. And I think it's really unique in that it's like he's like a leading man, but he's like not a leading man, you know? And and I think it just works perfectly for this film. I think what they do with Cameron Diaz is really interesting, too, you know, because we we see her here and like in in like everything else that we've almost discussed in the film, except for the script, it's like, so underplayed, like they they make her so plain, like so purposely clearly playing you know she had been mask.
00:25:17:22 - 00:25:18:04
Cullen
Yeah.
00:25:18:15 - 00:25:41:07
Clark
Yeah kind of against type right that's like they hire an actress who is known for her beauty and and you know she was in the mask and she was in Oh boy now I'm like blanking what else. She'd been in a couple of films but I think the mask and then there's something about Mary where they were two big films right before this.
00:25:41:12 - 00:26:08:22
Clark
Yeah. And so and so clearly she had like established her comedy chops with or something about Mary. Well, and the mask, too, frankly. But yeah here she, she's like, got this crazy like wig on and she's like really just under made up whereas like sweat pants and stuff, you know, and her best friend is a little monkey. But yeah, that I feel like that was an interesting choice to see.
00:26:08:22 - 00:26:14:20
Clark
And I think at the time especially, people were surprised by that. You know, it's like, Well, why in the world did you hire Cameron Diaz then, if you were?
00:26:14:20 - 00:26:16:00
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yes. And you know.
00:26:16:08 - 00:26:37:03
Cullen
What? You almost didn't even know it's her. Like, it's it's yeah, very interesting. She's and she does a good job like she does genuinely a very good job at some, um, you know, again not she doesn't, she, she clearly intentionally does not play the type and put a lot of work into not being. Cameron Diaz. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:26:37:04 - 00:26:47:17
Cullen
Obviously that's acting but, but in a way that I think it's very felt like it almost takes you a second to go like, Oh, that's Cameron Diaz. It's like, Yeah, you realize who it is at first.
00:26:48:02 - 00:27:16:17
Clark
Yeah, for sure. For sure. And I think and Catherine Keener, who you know, I don't know that I had I was too aware of her when the film originally came out. But I think, like to me, her character is one of the more interesting. Mm hmm. And, you know, and it it's it's weird because I feel like her character kind of actually has the most arc and not that I think a character has to have in or, you know, I mean, because clearly, you know, Cusack doesn't change, right?
00:27:16:17 - 00:27:18:09
Clark
If we follow him to the film, he doesn't.
00:27:18:16 - 00:27:19:19
Cullen
At the beginning and saying.
00:27:19:20 - 00:27:20:09
Speaker 3
Well, yeah.
00:27:20:16 - 00:27:45:12
Clark
I mean, he he doesn't learn, he doesn't change. And he's literally chosen at the end to to be absorbed inside of this child's brain only to kind of pine away and and look at his wife, have a relationship with somebody else without him. Right. Yeah. He's literally chosen that instead of leading his own life. And so I don't feel you know, I don't get a sense that he's really learned or grown or done anything.
00:27:45:12 - 00:28:08:16
Clark
Cameron Diaz I feel like kind of also in a certain sense has kind of stayed the same and not changed very much. But. But Catherine Keener, it's like she starts off the film and she's so icy and cold and kind of or I don't know if icy and cold is the right, but she's just like sort of you don't you don't get a lot of like empathy emanating her warmth coming.
00:28:08:17 - 00:28:15:15
Cullen
From her character, almost only interested in her own like very it's not self-preservation, but she's.
00:28:15:16 - 00:28:16:13
Speaker 3
Selfish.
00:28:16:13 - 00:28:17:13
Clark
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:28:17:13 - 00:28:20:22
Cullen
And not in like, a malicious way. She just doesn't know. It's just anything.
00:28:21:00 - 00:28:37:22
Clark
It's just a matter of fact. Right? And she's like, How can we profit off this? I'm going to we're going to, like, sell tickets to John Malkovich's mind. You know, we're going to profit off of it. Or it's like, hey, you know, don't you know, it's just really like, you know, very abruptly kind of like, well, what what can you do for me?
00:28:38:06 - 00:28:59:09
Clark
Or I'm not into, you know, it just kind of and by the end, it's like you see her in this really seemingly, like, loving, warm relationship with Cameron Diaz's character. They have a child, you know? I mean, she she so I don't and I was surprised by that. I forgotten about that, actually, until I had watched it now.
00:28:59:21 - 00:29:01:07
Speaker 3
But, you know, you just.
00:29:01:09 - 00:29:10:08
Clark
I was just kind of surprised. I but I think, like but her performance, I think is fantastic. So like a cross and we already talked about Orson Bean, who is like, hysterical, I think.
00:29:10:22 - 00:29:12:03
Cullen
Oh God he's great. Yeah.
00:29:13:11 - 00:29:14:03
Speaker 3
I mean, his.
00:29:14:03 - 00:29:27:01
Clark
Performance is almost it feels like it's almost kind of like tongue in cheek, like, it's like, you know, everybody else is playing this so straight. But he's he comes on and especially when we first meet him in the office for the interview, he's so tongue in cheek and it's.
00:29:27:01 - 00:29:28:04
Speaker 3
Kind of like, hey, hey.
00:29:28:05 - 00:29:29:03
Cullen
Python sketch or.
00:29:29:03 - 00:29:32:07
Speaker 3
Something. Yeah, yeah. It's like wink, wink, nudge nudge, you know.
00:29:32:13 - 00:29:38:10
Cullen
Or when they're, when they're trying to, like, say, Oh, we'll kill your wife. And then he hangs up and and he's like, Oh, he called our bluff.
00:29:40:01 - 00:29:51:06
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's almost like he's in a different movie than the other actors, but it works, you know? It still works. I just love it. So, you know.
00:29:51:18 - 00:30:12:16
Clark
It's but again, I just, you know, so what I now I watched the film and I enjoyed it, but I'm kind of like scratching my head a little bit at the end. I have to say, in the sense that now this is not a bad thing. I think this is a good thing in the sense that I'm kind of like, okay, what in the world did all this mean?
00:30:12:23 - 00:30:38:13
Clark
Not that I have to have a film, you know, be about anything explicitly at all. I don't, but I am. I'm always kind of like, curious. Like I wonder, well, what's the director saying? What is the writer saying? Kind of, you know, how do I feel about this? And this was a film that I'm kind of like, I really at least yet, maybe I'll get there, you know, in it as we discuss it here.
00:30:38:21 - 00:31:00:11
Clark
But I don't have this, like, great articulation, like this really articulate explanation of of what I kind of think or feel about what the movie might be trying to say, what I thoughts on that, because it touches on so many things. It touches on celebrity, it touches on, you know, identity, like, you know, Yeah.
00:31:00:11 - 00:31:06:02
Cullen
I mean, this idea of like, well, Cusack says in the movie, like this idea of being in someone else's skin. And it's like.
00:31:06:02 - 00:31:06:10
Clark
He's the.
00:31:06:14 - 00:31:19:10
Cullen
Guy who can never say the right thing, right like that. It literally to a point that every single thing that he says, I want to say for the first like 70% of the movie result in something.
00:31:19:18 - 00:31:20:20
Clark
Negative consequences.
00:31:21:02 - 00:31:22:02
Cullen
Literally every line.
00:31:22:09 - 00:31:27:18
Clark
Like everybody responds to him except now interestingly that you say except for Orson Bean.
00:31:28:04 - 00:31:35:11
Cullen
Yeah, but even who's thinking like when you think about how whenever he's awesome, he's like, comes up to him and is like, Oh, don't you talk to him. You know her that way.
00:31:35:11 - 00:31:36:05
Speaker 3
And if I.
00:31:36:05 - 00:31:38:16
Cullen
Was 20 years younger, I'd, I'd, I'd, yeah.
00:31:38:23 - 00:31:39:11
Clark
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:31:39:12 - 00:31:56:08
Cullen
So there's this like so but, but exactly that there's an awesome being is very much I want to say also the only only actor in the movie that's like purposefully playing comedy to like is Yeah playing for for comedic kind of Yeah. Yeah. But yeah And then.
00:31:56:14 - 00:32:02:16
Clark
Mary Kate plays Mary Kay Place is clean. Yeah, yeah. They're kind of a duo together but.
00:32:03:06 - 00:32:26:00
Cullen
Yeah, a little bit of a yeah. Um, and then, but then, and then suddenly you've got this character that's. Yeah. Again, that never says anything, right. That is completely, you know, and then he, he is transported into the mind of for 15 minutes of the um, like a good actor. A great actor, you know, I like John Malkovich a lot.
00:32:26:00 - 00:32:32:02
Cullen
Yeah, but like also just kind of like the most, like, banal choice of, like.
00:32:32:13 - 00:32:33:10
Speaker 3
Now here's, here's.
00:32:33:10 - 00:32:53:13
Clark
What I would have done. Here's what I would have done, here's what I would have done. Okay? I've just I'm a riff on an idea for just a second. Okay? We'll have it. Like, maybe we can have a news segment in our podcast where it's like, How would I have done this differently? Yeah, okay. Not that I'm like second guessing Spike Jones and Charlie Kaufman, but just, just let's play a thought experiment.
00:32:53:23 - 00:33:13:15
Clark
So how cool would a this been if we you know, we have we have this guy, we have Cusack. He's a puppeteer, which is it's it's 100% it's a it's a type of acting. It's a performance art. Okay. So very close, honestly, to what Malkovich does. And I think, you know, we explore this in the film a little bit, right?
00:33:13:23 - 00:33:46:09
Clark
It's kind of meta. And these are actors in a performance already talking about performance and acting. But when he goes into Malkovich for the for the first time, he he pops in during a Take of Malkovich on set for the film Rounders, where he's playing Teddy KGB. And we can hear that literal like lines from the movie, like where he's in a scene that we recognize from the movie having just come out.
00:33:47:07 - 00:34:04:01
Clark
And so Cusack gets to like, spend, you know, 15 minutes on set of this major motion picture with Matt Damon sitting right across from him. And they're at the card table and they're playing poker and they're shooting a scene. That's how I would have done it different.
00:34:04:01 - 00:34:17:13
Cullen
Yeah. And then there's another layer of of like meta, you know, he's you know, Malkovich is playing someone else in I mean, that that should be that should be I think we should add that segment to.
00:34:17:17 - 00:34:17:21
Clark
You.
00:34:17:21 - 00:34:19:06
Speaker 3
Like that. Yeah it's like.
00:34:19:11 - 00:34:48:20
Clark
It's like how can we play armchair director you know at Ed's second guess people's film making, which is not actually my intention at all. I just had I just had this idea. But, but, you know, sometimes it's like because you wonder, it's like, I don't know how. Kaufman writes, you know, and I know just in my own writing, you know, a lot of times, like, some things are are conscientious, like some things are very conscientious where it's like, okay, I like I'm shooting for some kind of like way to express an idea or a theme.
00:34:49:01 - 00:35:13:05
Clark
And so, you know, you're reaching for some kind of symbology. And and a lot of times, though, and I think this is maybe when when the writing's better, all of that stuff is kind of subconscious, you know, And it's not a conscientious, like goal to to create or utilize symbology, but rather and just it's just kind of like flowing forth from me right?
00:35:13:05 - 00:35:35:13
Clark
And so I don't know how Kaufman writes and I don't know if if his symbology or if his stories are very conscientious and they're methodical and he you know, or if he kind of writes from his subconscious more, I don't know. But maybe, you know, an argument for the latter would be that I don't feel like this film in what it's saying is really easy to categorize.
00:35:35:13 - 00:35:40:01
Clark
I think if you had ten people watch it, you'd probably have ten different interpretations.
00:35:40:04 - 00:35:40:11
Cullen
Yeah.
00:35:40:13 - 00:36:01:22
Clark
Of of what the film is about, you know, and I, and I really liked that about this film, you know, I really like this about a film. And I think we've talked before about, you know, especially and the like biopic genre where recently we've just had films that are so overly simplified, you know, the people's lives or the characters in the stories.
00:36:01:22 - 00:36:23:02
Clark
And it and it just and the symbology or the themes are so on the nose and you feel like you're being hit over the head as an audience member, being told what to think about what's on screen. And so at least for me, I, I, I feel like that's not the case even remotely with Hoffman's films and with this film, as well, which I love.
00:36:23:02 - 00:36:24:08
Clark
I wish there was more of that.
00:36:24:18 - 00:37:00:02
Cullen
Yeah. I mean, like you said, kind of just like he throws up ideas without worrying to handhold the audience through like, yeah, his philosophy is, which is refreshing because again, like he said, a lot of times a movie like, like I think of some movies that, you know, have come out recently that are very similar in the sense that they're like kind of this like high concept idea and they've got, you know, this philosophy to them and yet they just are so on the nose in terms of like what?
00:37:00:06 - 00:37:10:22
Cullen
Like, you know, as much as we don't like to, it's manipulative. They're manipulative movies. But the the yeah the movie don't look up that just came out last year.
00:37:10:22 - 00:37:12:10
Clark
Okay yeah I saw that.
00:37:12:10 - 00:37:27:12
Cullen
Which had you know Leo a lot of people really liked but I found it was kind of again in the opposite vein of this movie where it's like again, got this high concept. You've got this idea that like, an asteroid is going to destroy Earth and like how people respond. And yet it was such a.
00:37:27:12 - 00:37:47:21
Clark
Concept, so underutilized. It's another, I think it's another I know you're going in a different direction. You're using it as an example of kind of a prettiness or an on the nose. You know, this. It's also an example since Being John Malkovich. Also, I think you could argue in a sense, I don't know if I'd say it's high concept, but there is a high concept there, right.
00:37:49:04 - 00:37:57:03
Clark
But the film is an exact, I don't know, isn't executed exactly like Hitchcock. Maybe it is. I don't know. I'd have to think about that. But. But yeah, yeah.
00:37:57:06 - 00:38:05:21
Cullen
That, that the subject matter of John Malkovich is high concept, but the way in which it's like the workmanship behind it is not high. Yeah.
00:38:05:21 - 00:38:37:10
Clark
Except, you know, one of the things that I thought about and I just as I just take this through with you, you know, and this, this is like 99 Now, in 99, obviously, like celebrity has been a major, you know, people have lived through the lives to some extent of celebrities for decades and decades and decades. Right. I mean, and certainly in 99, there was there was already a substantial celebrity culture in this country and in Canada, where you're at in other countries.
00:38:38:00 - 00:39:13:15
Clark
And but what's interesting is that 99 is kind of the beginning of the Internet being available to a wider and wider audience or a wider and wider group of users. And, you know because I'm trying to think I think 94 would have been when I first really used the Internet and by 99 I think it was quite prevalent or, you know, much more so and I almost it's interesting where we've gone now with with with virtual realities or virtual, you know, virtual images or avatars of ourself online.
00:39:13:15 - 00:39:40:07
Clark
Right. And that can be something as simple as like you have a username that's that's not you on Twitter or you actually have like an actual avatar in a video game or what is Facebook now? What do they call themselves? Meta. Is that very. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, and it's trying to like create this entirely like, you know, synthesized symbolic virtual world where avatars of people interact with.
00:39:40:17 - 00:40:15:15
Clark
And I think it's interesting, you know, it's one of the things that I really thought of here and it's maybe it's kind of a superficial thing, but this idea of like, you know, living through someone else. Right. And obviously Cusack's character does this in this film, you know, and very consciously goes into this person's life, learns to kind of manipulate and control them and then uses this this other person's life to achieve their goals and dreams of, in this case, of being a successful puppeteer and, you know, utilizing the fame that Malkovich already had to do.
00:40:15:15 - 00:40:46:13
Clark
So it's just very interesting to me how the world has kind of moved on 20 years plus after this film and how so many people live through, you know, either either avatars they've created for themself in a virtual existence online or live through the celebrity of other people. And I just think that's that's intriguing. Anyway, it was just one of the things that I thought about.
00:40:47:03 - 00:41:07:17
Cullen
Like, you said, like celebrity doom and fandom these days is such a a different place than it was, you know, even ten years ago, where it's like people have these parasocial relationships with with celebrities that they believe are their friends because then follow them on Twitter.
00:41:07:17 - 00:41:09:15
Clark
They can Twitter. Yeah, they can like, you know, your.
00:41:09:16 - 00:41:16:19
Cullen
Daily life on Instagram. And it's like it almost goes along with the Who and you And, you know, we're getting not off topic but very now this.
00:41:16:19 - 00:41:17:14
Clark
Is right on topic.
00:41:17:14 - 00:41:39:10
Cullen
But yeah this is the idea that you know like talk shows all kind of are dwindling and like CONAN O'Brien just ended his because he was like, you know, I'm going to do something a little bit more contemporary. And because, you know, what was the talk show originally, it was this this, you know, half hour program to get to know a celebrity because you had no other way of doing it.
00:41:39:10 - 00:41:42:10
Clark
Well, and they were always it was promotion. It was an advertiser.
00:41:42:10 - 00:42:06:16
Cullen
It was it was an absent adult. So, yeah, it was like the only place that you could see. Right. A celebrity kind of just like kick back and have a conversation with someone. It wasn't that, you know, it wasn't a direct, you know, necessarily a direct interview about a specific product project like that. Right. And now with social media, where I can go on on Twitter, God forbid.
00:42:06:23 - 00:42:09:02
Speaker 3
Or on Instagram.
00:42:09:02 - 00:42:20:13
Cullen
Or Yeah thing. And I can see again, I can like literally go and look at Kim Kardashian's Instagram story and see what she's been up to today. And I can go.
00:42:20:13 - 00:42:21:18
Clark
And oh, how exciting.
00:42:22:02 - 00:42:27:22
Cullen
I can go see what John Cusack's thoughts on, you know, the most recent election are right from his own mouth, right?
00:42:28:01 - 00:42:29:01
Clark
Yep. Yeah. Yeah.
00:42:29:05 - 00:42:50:20
Cullen
So there's this really interesting, you know, link between this idea that, you know, and it's almost perhaps it's like this where it's like it's funny how overt people are. The guy that's like, that comes in and he's like, Oh, you know, Malkovich was my second choice and goes and is super excited and everyone's like, thrilled when they come out on the the New Jersey Turnpike.
00:42:51:00 - 00:42:55:14
Cullen
Yeah Yeah. And I feel like, you know, again, I was I was one years old when this movie came out, but.
00:42:55:23 - 00:43:01:17
Clark
Which blows my mind, by the way. Totally blows my mind. I was graduated college.
00:43:01:17 - 00:43:20:18
Cullen
Yeah. There you go. There you go. But it's it's funny how and I assume because it was like this when I was growing up even that that kind of overt, you know, with very with exceptions, you know, there was obviously like Beatlemania and there was like people would like pass out at Elvis and Michael Jackson going like that.
00:43:20:18 - 00:43:50:20
Cullen
But in terms of in terms of like this celebrity worship that like, permeates every single day to day life in every aspect was kind of something that was like exaggerated in this movie. Whereas nowadays, like if you were to reshoot this movie, you would almost think that those people that like are so, you know, almost like filled with contempt about themselves, that they just want to go and live in the other the eyes of a celebrity that would almost be too realistic to be like high concept fantasy.
00:43:50:20 - 00:43:52:03
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah.
00:43:52:08 - 00:44:01:09
Cullen
Just like that. Like, yeah. Think about the idea of going into John Malkovich, his head, and seeing what he sees the appeal of. Like we kind of already get to do that every day now.
00:44:01:19 - 00:44:31:17
Clark
Yeah, that's very interesting. You're right. And it's almost like, Yeah, we do. We, there's, it's almost like the uniqueness of that, right, of that experience is, has been reduced because you're right, it's like I can go on Twitter and you know specifically John Cusack is there expressing his personal opinions like every 5 minutes, and you're just like, okay, well, she is I'm practically, you know, like I'm in his mind.
00:44:31:17 - 00:45:02:07
Clark
I mean, obviously you're not. But but yeah, I mean, the idea of that, I think, you know, I there are so many interesting, like tangents or like interesting ideas that are almost kind of dangled in front of us. But then kind of not done a lot with really that I there's a part of me that thinks that there's more potential than there is actual payoff in this film, but I don't know how I feel about that.
00:45:02:08 - 00:45:22:07
Clark
You know, there's part of me that's like, Well, hey, that's okay. It's like it's enough to kind of like to, to, to fill up the film with some density and let you kind of mull it over and think about it and, and, and have and have more to discuss. You don't have to tie everything up in a nice little bow that you introduce into a film, Right?
00:45:22:15 - 00:45:54:03
Clark
And so I guess maybe I'm okay with that. But just one of the things that I'm thinking of kind of for, for specifically that I actually thought on this rewatch because I hadn't seen it in so long, was going to be more of a part of the film was so Lottie, you know, the character that the Cameron Diaz plays when she is first, you know, when Cusack's character, Craig, introduces her to the portal and they're able to go through it, she goes through that and is in Malkovich's mind.
00:45:54:07 - 00:46:01:10
Clark
Her interpretation of that is kind of like an awakening of a trans gender identity, right?
00:46:01:14 - 00:46:01:21
Cullen
Yeah.
00:46:02:04 - 00:46:18:11
Clark
I mean, it's explicitly said, like her character explicitly says that it's like, you know, I am a paraphrase, I can't remember exactly, but it's like, oh, my gosh. You know, I realized when I was in Malkovich that I like, meant to be a man I think is as roughly how that goes. But then we.
00:46:18:11 - 00:46:19:17
Speaker 3
Don't really see.
00:46:19:17 - 00:46:36:00
Clark
Too much more of this. I mean, there is this plot idea about how Catherine Keener is character is, you know, has a sexual relationship with Cameron Diaz when she's inside the body of Malkovich.
00:46:36:00 - 00:46:36:10
Cullen
Yes.
00:46:36:12 - 00:47:05:01
Clark
And that and that's definitely we continue that on to the point where Cameron Diaz is in a relationship with Catherine Keener at the end of the film. But it's just that's just one kind of interesting thing to me, that it's like it seems so poignant. And maybe that's because now this is such a topic in today's world, But and probably 20 plus years ago, I would have had less exposure to transgender.
00:47:05:08 - 00:47:22:08
Clark
You know, identity issues and things. But it just stuck out to me. I was like, whoa. And then we but we don't go anywhere really with that. I don't think by the end of the film, just kind of one example that stood out to me. But there's a lot of little things I think like that in the film, and I.
00:47:22:08 - 00:47:25:20
Cullen
Guess it's like infusing of like identity and all kind of forms and, you.
00:47:25:20 - 00:47:44:12
Clark
Know, Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I guess that's a good way to see is that identity is clearly identity is a huge is a huge part of this. And it's and and it's interesting too. And I don't know that you know the film is clearly not moralizing, which I like. And I don't think Kauffman really ever delves into memorialization.
00:47:44:12 - 00:48:04:22
Clark
He just kind of presents things and and you can kind of decide for yourself. But it is a little bit interesting that, you know, it feels so punitive for Cusack's character for Craig at the end of the film, he's in this prison where he's just reduced to basically pining over a lost relationship and, you know, a person he can't have.
00:48:05:03 - 00:48:39:13
Clark
Yeah, inside the mind, you know, it's basically he's imprisoned inside the mind of another of a child and and it almost feels punitive for his for him trying to find success and expression through the fame and body of another person which is interesting you know so yeah there's a lot of different things going on in this film and and I still have not, you know, I think it would I don't know if I would ever get myself to a point where I would be able to dissect it and articulate it perfectly.
00:48:39:13 - 00:48:43:05
Clark
But I think that's I mean, hey, that's. Kaufman right?
00:48:43:05 - 00:48:55:12
Cullen
No, exactly. Yeah. You you know, you look at his other movies again and you see again very similar themes, and yet it's they're tough to predict and they're tough to.
00:48:55:21 - 00:49:00:00
Clark
And they're in their detail in the execution. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:49:00:00 - 00:49:00:07
Speaker 3
Yeah.
00:49:00:07 - 00:49:27:15
Clark
Which is and I, I found out that he wrote a book and I don't know if you've heard of it, I think it's called and that Kaufman wrote a book I think a couple of years ago. Yeah. So I'd be curious to I think I'm going to pick that up and, and check it out. And I've also kind of made a little bit of homework for myself to read his scripts because I'd be curious to see how know I'm always curious to see how scripts are translated by directors into the, you know, the final film that we get to see.
00:49:28:04 - 00:49:54:02
Clark
But I think especially with Kaufman, because again, I just feel like his stamp is so strong in this film that it that it's just it almost feels kind of, again, I don't want to say overwhelming because that feels negative, but it's just so, so significant. But yeah, well, I hey, I guess that's that's where we'll probably wrap up this episode.
00:49:55:04 - 00:50:19:06
Clark
It's kind of one of those where it's like, you don't have this this beautiful, perfect, articulate analysis of, of the themes of the film. But again, that's kind of what I enjoy about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I think you as always, Cohen Me as Cohen, me as Cohen as Clark. Maybe I'll edit that it. People have no idea what we're talking about.
00:50:19:07 - 00:50:38:07
Clark
And maybe I'll maybe, maybe I'll edit in like a snippet as, like a postscript or something after our signoff. But yeah, but hey, thanks again, Colin, for hanging out with me and discussing the film. It's as always, it's a blast and everybody out there listening. Thanks for hanging in there with us. I hope that you enjoyed the episode and we will see you next time.
00:50:38:07 - 00:50:38:15
Clark
Take care.
00:50:38:16 - 00:50:39:02
Speaker 3
Everybody.
00:50:39:02 - 00:50:47:13
Cullen
Bye bye.
00:50:50:19 - 00:50:51:06
Cullen
Okay.
00:50:51:20 - 00:50:53:14
Clark
All right, man. Ready when you are?
00:50:53:20 - 00:51:08:03
Cullen
Yep. Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Soldiers of Cinema Podcast, Episode 60. I am your host. As always with my co-host Colin is me.
00:51:08:03 - 00:51:13:21
Speaker 3
I mean, yeah, I will be in a while.
00:51:14:03 - 00:51:15:10
Clark
Let's just use that. Colin.