Cullen
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Soldiers of Cinema Podcast. Episode 51 I am Cullen McPhatter and as always, I'm joined by Clarke Coffee. Hey. Hey. Going.
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Clark
Hey, man, my day is going pretty well. How about you?
00:00:25:05 - 00:00:31:04
Cullen
It's going. It's going well. It's it's haven't done much other than this, but nothing to complain about.
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Clark
I, I was doing my taxes.
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Cullen
Oh, there you go.
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Clark
But before this. So I'm like, very, very, very happy. Well, what.
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Cullen
Is tax what's the what's what's your tax season cut. So.
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Clark
Well, I'm jumping ahead a little bit so I think it's the 18th of April this year.
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Cullen
Okay. So it's like pretty much the same as ours.
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Clark
So, yeah, it is. And I am admittedly kind of ahead, but but that is because in a couple of weeks I will be leaving for France where my wife. Right, will be for three weeks ish or so. So I just wanted to get this like knocked off my to do list so I don't have to rush, you know, and I don't really have like, I only have like a week or so, you know, by when I get back from France to do this.
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Clark
So I'm like, Yeah, let's just get it done. Let's just it's it's it's a painful experience. I'd rather just have it out of the way than having to look forward to it. It's very fair. Yeah, well, this.
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Cullen
Is not the tax podcast.
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Clark
This is not the tax podcast. That good.
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Cullen
But yeah, we're going to be talking today about your pick, which was 1980 four's Amadeus Amadeus. Milos Forman. Forman Yeah, starring Tom. I always am worried that I'm going to mispronounce his name. You're not Tom. Hush, hush, hush, hush.
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Clark
Shameless Hulce I think it's almost. Yeah, starring Tom Hall's. And it's one.
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Cullen
Of those it's I mean, it's very clearly like an, you know, a Anglo-Saxon. Oh, wait.
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Clark
Wait, wait. You can't just say it's starring Tom Hulce. I mean, you have to put in f Murray.
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Cullen
Abraham.
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Clark
Abraham, Abraham.
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Cullen
I mean, especially considering that he won the Oscar for it.
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Clark
Well, they were both nominated and he was he actually won. We're going to get to more of that. But his performance is just, in my opinion, just outstanding in the film.
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Cullen
Yeah, but you got some good makeup on him, too.
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Clark
Yes.
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Cullen
Well, aging affects him.
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Clark
We're going to get to all of that. But yeah, like amazing makeup. Actually, I'm a big fan of practical effects, you know, so it's not like deep fake here, actual real makeup.
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Cullen
But I guess I guess I would I want to know first, too, is okay, like, because this was not the this is an unknown movie by any means. But yeah, it was sort of an unexpected pick in terms of, like I said this, I was I was surprised. I just was not really thinking ahead. I, I don't know.
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Cullen
I don't know why this was I was unexpected about you picking this movie. So why would I pick it?
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Clark
I expected that you would.
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Cullen
Feel that.
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Clark
It was unexpected it.
00:02:53:12 - 00:02:54:07
Cullen
In the script on me.
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Clark
Well, well, so. So let's break it down. So we have an early we have a mid eighties film. And if you notice, a lot of the films that I've picked are kind of in this time zone. And the reason being is because this is when I was kind of, you know, coming into, you know, the world of cinema.
00:03:11:17 - 00:03:29:13
Clark
I was like old enough to start watching things. And, you know, the films that I saw between like, you know, eight to 12 to 15 or whatever, you know, like, profoundly impactful on me. But I'll tell you, you know, why I picked this film. I mean, a, I think that it's a fantastic film. I think it does hold up.
00:03:29:20 - 00:03:46:13
Clark
There are a lot of Academy Award winning films that don't hold up. I mean, and that's, you know, maybe we could do an episode, you know, one day on those. Because I think it's interesting to kind of analyze those films that won Academy Awards. But, you know, it really don't stand the test of time. Well, evening.
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Cullen
Even look at the things that it was up against, which is interesting because maybe one or two of them are sort of known movies. But the other ones really, Yeah. Aren't that famous. It was up against the Killing Fields passage to India, which was David Lean. Yeah, Places in the Hearts and A Soldier's Story, which was.
00:04:05:08 - 00:04:09:22
Clark
And how many of those films are still reviewed? Review Yeah, I don't think so.
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Cullen
Kind of lexicon of yeah.
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Clark
Yeah. So so but I think this film does hold up. But the reason that I picked it is that this film means a lot to me personally. And, you know, I guess what I mean when I say that is that, you know, for better or worse, I can really, really, really relate to what Cellulari represents in this film, what he symbolizes, this longing for greatness.
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Clark
You know, it it and I think everybody, to some extent or another has experienced this longing to be great. We've explored, we've all experienced jealousy in different ways in our life at different points. Hopefully we're not consumed by it like Salieri is. This is obviously a really, you know, a hyper representation of. Yes, of this. But I mean, but but that longing to be great and that, you know, to be So I think this film just does such an extraordinary job of represen and what it feels to want to be great at something.
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Clark
Yeah. And to recognize greatness and to be so deeply and profoundly moved by by greatness and.
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Cullen
Filled with jealousy, too.
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Clark
And to be filled because, I mean, I gather, like, I'm going to admit more than maybe I should admit to in this podcast and get personal here. But look, it I mean, I have to tell you that it is it is uncommon for me, like let me say this a different way when I experience what I consider to be a profoundly moving great esthetic or inducing works of art.
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Clark
There is always, alongside my experience of that esthetic or a little sliver of deep, deep longing. Mm hmm. About wishing that I could make something that great.
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Cullen
Mm hmm.
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Clark
And and so this film, to me, better than any other work that I've ever experienced, really just nails down that experience, which I have, you know, say, regularly. But, you know, throughout my life I have had and that's why I picked this film. That's why this film means something to me.
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Cullen
Well, that's, uh, yeah, it's a very great assessment. They're like.
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Clark
You're like, you're like, Oh, my God, this is this has got probably.
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Cullen
Harry now, But no, no. I mean, that's a totally like, uh, I think universal kind of feeling. Yeah, for especially for artists.
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Clark
I think so.
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Cullen
Everywhere, you know, you'll see. I think, I think I even even friends of mine, when they make something that I think is, is magnificent, I it's not for me it's, it's less so an element of envy. But you know, you always kind of going with hard on yourself. Yeah. It's like we're, we're like you're kind of like and perhaps I think the irony of it again and when we were talking before, I kind of very briefly just brought up the idea of like imposter syndrome.
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Cullen
But perhaps the reason for it is also just because you, you know, you obviously aren't going to recognize very rarely do people recognize their own talent.
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Clark
Absolutely.
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Cullen
So, like, perhaps, you know, I have no idea. Maybe when I make something, my friends have the exact same feeling that I have. Yeah. And because you see all the intricacies of your own work and but there's also a very real thing of of recognition and how salary is very clearly not recognized and not, you know, he, he envies not only to have the genius of.
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Clark
But to be with the.
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Cullen
Recognition and the fame and the fortune.
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Clark
And I know what that's like. And I know what that's like, too. I mean, look, I I'm the guy that at 30 whatever, at 30 years of age or whatever it was, I quit my successful career in the corporate world and moved to Los Angeles to pursue acting and and that was a profound experience, you know, that the years that I spent doing that had a huge impact on my life.
00:08:15:10 - 00:08:29:11
Clark
But but so I understand what that is to, you know, not just do that. I mean, we are again, it's universal. I mean, I think all of us know what it is to want to be recognized to to want to be appreciated, to want to know.
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Cullen
Absolutely.
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Clark
And I just think this film does an absolutely fantastic job of representing that. And and even though Salieri, you know, that those elements are are heightened quite greatly in the Yeah yeah. He's also still very sympathetic at least I Oh absolutely. I mean he appreciates the greatness of Mozart and like anyone else like nobody else.
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Cullen
Well, I think the brilliant thing about that, though, that that this movie really is that in any other movie, celluloid would be nothing more than the adversary. But the fact that this movie centers the story on him makes him automatically much more sympathetic, which I think it's a much more interesting choice.
00:09:13:15 - 00:09:14:04
Clark
Absolutely.
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Cullen
If this movie had not if this movie did not have any of the I mean, I say present day. It's not present day. But the the thing after Salieri's suicide attempt where he's, you know, retelling this story to the priest. Mm hmm. If it if none of that was involved, Salieri would be nothing more than just the antagonist of the movie that kind of pops in and out.
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Clark
Well, in a lesser film, you're definitely right.
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Cullen
Exactly.
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Clark
And I love I love, you know, that every element of this film, I mean, even the title is this ironic, you know, jab, right? Because. Because it should be titled Salieri. But it's not. Yes, it's titled Amadeus or like Salieri.
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Cullen
Mozart.
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Clark
But it is Salieri story. Absolutely, positively, without any question. It's his story and it's you.
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Cullen
You don't actually really get to know Mozart that well. And like, there's no there's nothing about, you know, everything that is told about Mozart's personal life prior to.
00:10:05:08 - 00:10:06:08
Clark
What we did is that we.
00:10:06:08 - 00:10:26:01
Cullen
Were Salieri about his childhood, about all that, you know, with very few exceptions, perhaps, like maybe the bits with Mozart's dad. But even that is still very observant. It's not necessarily you're never really getting this, like, long drawn out scene of Mozart monologuing about how he's, you know, he longs for his father. You even hear rekindled or whatever.
00:10:26:08 - 00:10:46:23
Clark
You and I and of course that the film very clearly bookends right. It's like you talk about how it's you know, literally it's Salieri telling this priest in an asylum about you know, tells the story that we see unfold before us. I mean, it's it's so clearly from Salieri's point of view and it's so clearly about him, which I think makes it great.
00:10:46:23 - 00:11:02:05
Clark
And so it's it's it's always a laugh to me that the film is named Amadeus because it's like just one more like jab at cell the area. It's like har har Salieri. Even in the movie that's really about you. It's going to be called Mozart. He's going to steal the title away from you.
00:11:02:18 - 00:11:03:07
Cullen
Yeah.
00:11:03:15 - 00:11:17:15
Clark
You know, it's I just love it. But I mean, you know, let's talk a little bit because we kind of skipped over it. But I'm just curious, you know, kind of like what was your personal experience of the film? Did you see it when the film, you know, well, obviously you didn't see it in the eighties, but did you see it before?
00:11:17:15 - 00:11:37:06
Cullen
So I it's it's my mom. I think it's my mom's favorite movie, I believe. I think it's because it's the one that she definitely talks about the most. And she, like, went to Vienna to see where we were in Prague, which was because the movie's shot in Prague, but set in Vienna. And, you know, she was always very excited when we were in Prague to see the locations from it and things like that.
00:11:38:22 - 00:11:55:14
Cullen
But I the first time I saw it, the first and only as far as I know, the only I don't think I've ever seen it since then was probably I was six or seven. I want to say I was really, really young when I saw this movie on VHS on the phone. It was the two VHS and yeah, because it was too long to fit on one VHS.
00:11:56:20 - 00:12:14:10
Cullen
And I just remember, yeah, just knowing that it was a movie that my mom really liked and thinking that at the time, because I was so young, not really understanding the, you know, in a way sort of satirical elements of it that I just thought it was kind of a pretty straightforward historical drama, and I remembered it as such.
00:12:14:10 - 00:12:42:22
Cullen
And so, yeah, it's a kind of surprise this time to to watch it and see how in, for lack of a better term, lighthearted and how, you know, comedic it is, how much it pokes fun at all these things elements and kind of is is not only utilizing Mozart as an way to laugh at the the kind of common courtesy of the time of of mannerisms and you know interrelationship in the way that you talk to people.
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Cullen
It uses him to kind of, you know, placate like almost like a 20th or 21st century view on those customs of just like super heightened, you know, politeness. And that that he's very much is kind of like the audiences weigh in by just making all those things kind of a laughing stock and but also the fact that it is very, very relatable and accessible in the way that it it, you know, again, presents these elements in a very through a lens of the modern day.
00:13:14:13 - 00:13:40:21
Cullen
You know, it's not it's not an this is a movie that I love Barry Lyndon. It's not Barry Lyndon. It's not presenting the film in a in a very, very heightened artistic 17th or 18th century style. It presents these things as, again, just kind of like a modern eye looking on them. And to me, that is a really brilliant choice because it makes the film, it makes these characters much more understandable.
00:13:40:22 - 00:14:02:05
Cullen
It you kind of understand their, their, you know, needs and desires and and you're much more empathetic towards them because they don't seem like people in a painting. They seem like people that are, you know, existing in the real world, despite the fact that the movie is not accurate in the slightest and historical sense.
00:14:02:10 - 00:14:03:06
Clark
Right. You know.
00:14:03:07 - 00:14:19:00
Cullen
With the exception to perhaps like the very, very broad general details, it's not you know, of course, Salieri and Mozart did know each other. And, you know, those elements are true. But but they you know, that the story itself, the plot of the film, is totally fictional. It's like a fan fiction.
00:14:19:05 - 00:14:40:04
Clark
It's totally fictionalized. And yeah, I mean, I would liken it to I mean, it's it's almost like Once Upon a Time in Hollywood or something. I mean, the location is real. The time is real. These there were people with these names that did exist. And the film definitely uses both Salieri and Mozart's real music and, you know, all the almost all of these main characters.
00:14:40:04 - 00:15:12:19
Clark
So I think all of the main characters actually did really exist. But the story that's told here is completely fiction. I mean, I think, you know, in the research that I did, which admittedly it was limited but in a scholar's understanding of these things is also limited. But I think, you know, this this that Salieri and Mozart actually coexisted, appreciated and respected each other for the most part, you know, So this this whole thing is just dramatizes, you know.
00:15:14:06 - 00:15:19:23
Cullen
Oh, I also think that we should mention just just briefly that we both watched this time the director's cut.
00:15:19:23 - 00:15:43:10
Clark
Oh, yeah. Yes. And the director's cut. So, yeah, I mean, look, the the the theatrical release wasn't a short film. I think it was about two and a half hours long. This version adds 20 more minutes. And it's interesting to note, like, for example, if you were to go watch this on Netflix or I think it was at one point, I'm not 100% sure if it's still up, but it's actually really difficult to find the theatrical version anymore.
00:15:43:10 - 00:15:57:14
Cullen
Yeah, I think that I think I mean, as a kid, I'm sure I saw this. I think the VHS was and what's interesting too, it wasn't a joke. So the original theatrical 161 minute version is PG, whereas this year director's cut was rated R.
00:15:57:15 - 00:16:25:05
Clark
And that's and that's because one of the originally omitted scenes that has been added back actually has a bit of nudity in it. Yes. And that's Elizabeth Berridge, who plays Constance Mozart is humiliated basically by F Murray Abrams Salieri, and he has her get naked in his room. And so, yeah.
00:16:25:06 - 00:16:26:11
Cullen
Then I might have seen.
00:16:26:11 - 00:16:27:01
Clark
Nudity.
00:16:27:01 - 00:16:39:04
Cullen
The director's cut when I was a kid, because I do remember at one point seeing I was like, again, like six years old. And when you see, you know, nudity at that age, it's like, yeah.
00:16:39:10 - 00:16:40:12
Clark
Lose your mind. Yeah.
00:16:41:00 - 00:16:51:09
Cullen
So I think I think I may have seen again I was so young then that it doesn't really matter either way, which I saw because I hardly remember the movie. But, but yeah, it's because.
00:16:51:11 - 00:16:59:19
Clark
I want to say that it was the early 2000 and I could be completely wrong here, but I want to say like around 22 ish or something, that when the DVD was released.
00:16:59:21 - 00:17:01:20
Cullen
Yeah, it was the director's cut.
00:17:01:22 - 00:17:02:21
Clark
Okay, So.
00:17:02:21 - 00:17:07:12
Cullen
Yeah, I don't know. I honestly don't. I'd have to. I'm sure I still have the VHS somewhere at my mom's place. I can.
00:17:07:12 - 00:17:23:13
Clark
Memories are so inaccurate. It's, you know, who knows? You may have seen the original version and then you may have followed that up by seeing the director's cut and those two in your mind. But. But that is one of that. You know, and I do think the director's cut, I think the scenes that they had back in are actually really helpful.
00:17:23:15 - 00:17:53:18
Clark
And that scene that we just discussed, I don't want to digress too much here, but is important because it actually kind of helps bolster the ending of the film when she walks in on Sally Airy asleep and Mozart is dead, the this humiliation that she experienced in front of him when she takes the score away and locks it away, it kind of foiling his final plan, which was to actually claim that piece as his own, as his own.
00:17:54:14 - 00:18:16:12
Cullen
Which in there is actually weirdly enough, there is an element of, again, truth to that, not in the way that it was silly his plan to steal it but that that Mozart died while writing the Requiem and it was finished by contemporaries. Yeah but, but it's a little kernels. Yeah, but it's like that's what I think is a great way to make a movie like this, which is like just use.
00:18:16:12 - 00:18:39:01
Cullen
It's kind of like, you know, it's, it's like adapting source material from a book where you, you can choose, you know, elements that work in film, that work better in film and adapt those to a different medium. It doesn't really matter the accuracy to, you know, whatever novel it is that's being, you know, adapted. I know some people are the opposite where it's like accuracy is all they care about, but I've always felt that, that, that, you know, who cares about accuracy.
00:18:39:01 - 00:18:41:18
Cullen
What matters is is getting an idea out and.
00:18:41:18 - 00:19:03:00
Clark
And well yeah I mean I think the cinema is not a biography of Amadeus it's yeah it's about I mean again in my mind it's about longing for greatness. Yes. Yeah. And you know, we've talked about this before. That fact doesn't equal truth, you know, Or truth doesn't equal fact. Yeah. That there is an esthetic truth that's much more important than an accountant's truth.
00:19:03:10 - 00:19:25:22
Clark
And and I think that absolutely is more effective in works of art than just trying to stick to some kind of accountant's truth. Yeah. In fact, you know, even within documentary films, I don't think that that works totally. And I think films that try, you know, especially with biopic films and there's been a lot recently biopic films that I just I'd never liked them.
00:19:25:22 - 00:19:37:23
Clark
I very rarely like biopic films that that try to kind of represent things historically accurate. And, you know, I it just they always come off to me as as dry and well I.
00:19:37:23 - 00:19:43:01
Cullen
Think the other issue is and so they very rarely say anything beyond this was the life of the person.
00:19:43:09 - 00:19:44:03
Clark
Yeah like look.
00:19:44:12 - 00:19:45:00
Cullen
This person.
00:19:45:00 - 00:19:46:02
Clark
Was usually wounded.
00:19:46:02 - 00:20:08:11
Cullen
If you distill and again I kind of I kind of relate this film to to which is another previous movie that we just did Ed Wood in that the portrayal of these these artists is much more in line with their art as opposed to what they actually were like in your life, like in Ed Wood. How how Johnny Depp is portraying Ed Wood like he is a character in his movie.
00:20:08:11 - 00:20:39:02
Cullen
Like like he's a representation of the way that he made movies. And yeah, this the portrayal of Mozart as this this very kind of like manic character is much in line with the way that his music sounds like that His music is so energetic and like very lifelike and full of life, which I'm sure at the time. Like one of the reasons that his movie music was really lauded when he was alive was because it was so different from from the way that people were writing music then and, and because it was so, you know, energetic.
00:20:39:02 - 00:21:11:02
Cullen
And we now may look back on that and go, Well, that's just classical music. It's boring or whatever, But I think that, you know, I'm someone who really likes a lot of classical music. I think if you compare that to contemporary music at the time, yeah, he, he would have been like a a force to reckon with in terms of like everyone was like God, like it would be like someone in the fifties inventing, you know, not by a comparison of quality, but it would be like someone in the fifties inventing like techno, like it was like suddenly this, this, you know, lifelike force of nature came on.
00:21:11:02 - 00:21:38:00
Cullen
So I think that the way that they choose to portray him as a as a as again, very much so a force of nature, this person who is the center of attention in every room that he's in, who was like crass and, you know, jokes around there, is there is again, there is some truth there that he he apparently did have a very juvenile sense of humor, like there were letters from him to his father where he says, like kiss my Irish or something and would love to play jokes on people like that.
00:21:38:00 - 00:21:53:13
Cullen
And apparently it was very humorous. But but all that stuff is just exaggerated to portray an idea much more so than to portray an accurate, you know, representation of what it what life was like for Mozart in his day to day or Salieri or you know, any of the people in this movie.
00:21:53:23 - 00:22:15:03
Clark
Well, I think that and also, if you look at Milosz's other work, some of his other work, I think it's pretty clear that he is interested in outsiders. Yeah. Yeah. You know, another one of my favorite films, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, he directed in 1975. Clearly that film was about an outsider or actually a group, a full group of outsiders.
00:22:15:05 - 00:22:17:02
Cullen
Yeah, but also an outsider within a group.
00:22:17:07 - 00:22:20:06
Clark
And of course, yes, an outsider within this town.
00:22:20:07 - 00:22:20:20
Cullen
In terms of.
00:22:20:20 - 00:22:24:21
Clark
That, I think this film, you know, Mozart is clearly presented as an outsider here.
00:22:26:21 - 00:22:53:08
Clark
People versus Larry Flynt. Larry Flynt is presented as an outsider man on the moon. Andy Kaufman, played by Jim Carrey, you know, clearly an outsider there. So these you know, these rebels, these outsiders, these renegades, it's clearly something that Milos is interested in. And, you know, using these aside from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, you know, using real people who really existed.
00:22:53:13 - 00:23:12:18
Clark
And certainly there was a kernel of that renegade ness, that exceptionalism, that outsider ness, you know, did really exist. But taking that kernel and really, you know, dramatizing that and, you know, fictionalizing that and emphasizing that in these films is definitely a theme here. And militia's fantastic at it and all this.
00:23:12:20 - 00:23:27:05
Cullen
And perhaps it's also an advantage of of of taking something from stage. And I want to get into this later too, because stylistically I think one of the great things about this movie is that it does what a lot of stage adaptations, film adaptations of a stage play.
00:23:28:10 - 00:23:32:13
Clark
Don't do real quick. Yes. Oh, yeah. SCHAFFER Yeah. So just a little background. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about.
00:23:32:13 - 00:23:37:15
Cullen
That. Yeah, Yeah. So so Peter Schaffer's, he wrote the screenplay, but also wrote the play Amadeus.
00:23:37:18 - 00:23:44:00
Clark
And it was it was a very successful play. It ran for, I think, over a thousand productions on Broadway. It just didn't have some.
00:23:44:00 - 00:23:44:20
Cullen
Very big names in it.
00:23:44:20 - 00:23:48:23
Clark
Tim Yeah, Ian McKellen was Salieri, Tim Curry was Mozart. Other actor.
00:23:48:23 - 00:23:52:09
Cullen
Mark Hamill also apparently was Mozart, which I think would be very interesting to see.
00:23:52:12 - 00:24:11:20
Clark
A lot of actors rotated through because it did run so long. So but yeah, I mean, so a very successful play and and, you know, this is not the first time that Milos has adapted a play for a successful film, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Likewise, Bliss led that production hairs. Another film.
00:24:12:02 - 00:24:15:08
Cullen
Ragtime, which is sort of the opposite. Ragtime was a book, then the movie, then.
00:24:15:20 - 00:24:17:13
Clark
Then musical, which. Yeah, yeah.
00:24:17:13 - 00:24:19:22
Cullen
I was I was actually in Ragtime in the musical, but.
00:24:20:06 - 00:24:21:20
Clark
Oh, we got to get some footage of that.
00:24:22:11 - 00:24:23:16
Cullen
Oh, I've got some, I've got post.
00:24:23:16 - 00:24:24:21
Clark
Too late to YouTube in the.
00:24:24:21 - 00:24:27:11
Cullen
Comments that know.
00:24:27:22 - 00:24:29:02
Clark
I think change the subject.
00:24:29:08 - 00:25:01:09
Cullen
If there's there's such a often times when when stage play is being adapted that there is a tendency to almost represent the film as a stage play. There is like a lot of carryover of style and while there is a lot of, you know, drawn out, extended, you know, takes in this film where people are very much performing and there's also literal stage productions in the play, I think that this movie does what does Milo Miller does is very smart, which is to adapt that into a cinematic language.
00:25:02:06 - 00:25:41:10
Cullen
And but the other advantage I think, of taking something like this from a play is that I find and, you know, I think that this is a really interesting part about live theater is that it's often a lot easier to to get away with in an audience's perception. Inaccuracies that that live theater very often plays up, you know, these inaccuracies for fun and heightens these kind of and so like, you can very much get a sense of this being based off of a a stage play because of the idea of this rivalry between Salieri, Mozart and playing that up and making a story around that very much.
00:25:41:10 - 00:26:13:12
Cullen
To me, it's kind of screams something that's very theatrical, and I feel like you would almost get more flak, but you would have more complaints about it had that not initially come from the the stage play. Because I think that there are a lot of pedants in terms of cinema that when something is not necessarily super accurate, you know, in the context of of a movie that they can kind of complaint like there's there's, there's always these conversations about like the accuracy of this or that or, you know, articles are written about like how accurate, how historically accurate is this?
00:26:13:17 - 00:26:23:00
Cullen
You don't really get stuff like that. That's that's really about like, I think people are a lot more accepting of of heightened theatricality on the stage.
00:26:23:12 - 00:26:44:09
Clark
It's interesting. That's an interesting thought and you know and of course you know both of what you didn't exist. You weren't even alive. And I was very young. And so I don't even you know, I don't know if that was ever something that the media harped on or or discussed about Amadeus. Of course, when this film was released, you didn't have throngs of Internet experts.
00:26:45:18 - 00:26:46:14
Cullen
Yes. Yeah.
00:26:46:22 - 00:26:48:05
Clark
Wacky, wacky people do.
00:26:48:05 - 00:26:48:22
Cullen
And people on.
00:26:48:22 - 00:27:09:08
Clark
Reddit or people on Reddit and blogs and all these things. So, you know, there were there was a lot less conversation in that sense. There was a lot of watercooler conversation. There was a lot of, you know, actually more so, I think, than today, because I think that films like this were much more cultural touchstones than they are today.
00:27:10:19 - 00:27:29:07
Clark
But as far as like in the media, you know, I would be curious to see if that was ever something that was brought up and what little bit of criticism or not criticism in a negative sense. But I just mean, you know, criticism as and just like film critics writing. Yeah, and I read about this film. I didn't see anybody mention anything about the historical.
00:27:29:07 - 00:27:29:22
Cullen
No, exactly.
00:27:29:22 - 00:27:41:21
Clark
Yeah. This film and and that's interesting because it's you're right. I do get a sense that when these kinds of films are released today, there is often a conversation about the historical accuracy of it. And that's an interesting hypothesis.
00:27:41:21 - 00:27:46:06
Cullen
And if for no other reason than exactly like you said, where it's like it's a clickbait headline.
00:27:46:06 - 00:28:00:07
Clark
That people will click, Yeah, maybe that's maybe that's the explanation. But it's but that's an interesting hypothesis that you bring up, which is that, you know, it's long, successful theatrical run. I wonder if that did have an impact on its acceptance, you know, because I.
00:28:00:07 - 00:28:24:02
Cullen
Also I wonder, you know, so often when things are and again, I wasn't around when this was made, um, nor was I around obviously, when the stage play was going on. I wonder how, you know, was it because you can have things that were massive on stage today that are adapted to movies and so many people don't realize that they were stage plays right?
00:28:24:02 - 00:28:32:06
Cullen
So I wonder how common, how common the knowledge was that it was first stage play. I guess the opening credits do say based on the stage play, but.
00:28:32:15 - 00:28:34:06
Clark
That does give it away. Yeah, so.
00:28:34:06 - 00:28:36:19
Cullen
But I mean, even so, like, you know, people just don't.
00:28:37:06 - 00:28:37:16
Clark
Pay attention.
00:28:37:18 - 00:28:47:21
Cullen
Pay attention to that. So yeah, I wonder if. Yeah, I know. And it's just sort of like an interesting kind of thing about like the cultural idea of, of, like accuracy in things and I Yeah.
00:28:48:17 - 00:28:49:05
Clark
That's an, I.
00:28:49:05 - 00:28:51:07
Cullen
Don't have a, I don't have a set answer on it.
00:28:51:07 - 00:29:18:12
Clark
Oh it's just an interesting question and it's an interesting observation because I do, I do think it's important. And again, I think there is this, you know, this this kind of fundamental artistic question, which is you know, fact versus truth. Yeah. And that's what that speaks to. I, I mean, I, I, you know, I'm curious, you know, like what your thoughts are because I know that you're you you often approach a film from a very light kind of cinematographic.
00:29:18:19 - 00:29:19:13
Clark
That's not a word.
00:29:19:13 - 00:29:21:05
Cullen
Yeah, that's a visual. Yeah.
00:29:21:05 - 00:29:31:20
Clark
I'm kind of curious what your thoughts are on the cinematography of this film. I mean, in my mind it's pretty simply shot. It's yeah, anamorphic, which I like, but I know you've got some thoughts. I want to hear what?
00:29:31:20 - 00:29:36:23
Cullen
Yeah. So I think that the movie looks really good. I mean yeah it's, it's, it's not.
00:29:36:23 - 00:29:40:01
Clark
It's beautifying production design. The production design through.
00:29:40:01 - 00:29:50:19
Cullen
The production designs, brilliant costumes. And I think even, you know, I think that even the this is one of those instances where I'm like the I think the cinematography looks really good, but I disagree with, with the choice being made with.
00:29:50:23 - 00:29:51:09
Clark
Interior.
00:29:51:09 - 00:30:32:04
Cullen
Design shot. So it's shot on anamorphic. Yeah. And to me aspect ratio and things like that matter so much in in of course I'm sure you would agree and you know it's a personal conversation about like the that the context of the story what you know that something as simple as aspect ratio matters so much. Yeah and and you know the choice of lenses and too so to me anamorphic lenses are a very modern you know modern in the grand scheme of things choice and you know if you think of anamorphic and just in case you know, somebody isn't quite familiar with the term, an anamorphic lens is basically what is used to shoot like
00:30:32:04 - 00:30:43:10
Cullen
a widescreen movie. So in the background you'll notice that the the out-of-focus areas are a little bit more of a la and it squeezes the image and there's a lot of technical sides. But basically it's widescreen. It's it's a you know.
00:30:43:10 - 00:30:55:17
Clark
And you get like you generally like if you're just a viewer and you're like without getting a technical stuff where that kind of like matter of factly means that you'll see like you've ever seen die hard and you see those like the flares that are like.
00:30:55:17 - 00:30:57:18
Cullen
Blue. Yeah, the horizontal streak.
00:30:57:18 - 00:31:03:05
Clark
Horizontally streak out. That's, that's a sign of an anamorphic lens and anamorphic.
00:31:03:17 - 00:31:04:06
Cullen
Sorry, go ahead.
00:31:04:06 - 00:31:09:17
Clark
I was just going to say you'll also generally see like a softening of focus around the edges of the frame.
00:31:09:17 - 00:31:31:01
Cullen
That's bare and really a lot of like barrel distortion, barrel distortion. You know, the edges aren't necessarily straight lines. There's kind of like a distortion on them. Right? And so that was used so much during the seventies and they kind of came about in the fifties, but they really, you know, took off in their use in the late sixties, seventies and eighties and kind of became almost like a staple of like blockbuster action cinema.
00:31:31:09 - 00:31:31:15
Clark
Right.
00:31:32:21 - 00:32:00:12
Cullen
And, you know, to me, I think that that a choice like that doesn't really match the subject matter, mostly because of the fact that I think that, you know, you can make such a powerful choice with what just simply what lenses you're choosing to shoot on in that like the way that I the way that that culture thinks back on, you know, the 1700s, the 1800s, so on and so forth is is only through paintings.
00:32:00:12 - 00:32:19:13
Cullen
You know, photography was only really coming about in the 1800s. Yeah. You know, all the everything we see of Mozart or of his life or of that time is paintings. Right. And so I think that using something that is so like anamorphic which is so linked to cinema, so which to.
00:32:19:15 - 00:32:20:04
Clark
Well it's art.
00:32:20:04 - 00:32:30:10
Cullen
There's not really anything else like it even photography is so there are people who do anamorphic photography, but it's very rare. It's much more of a kind of like a, a thing to do versus like.
00:32:30:15 - 00:32:31:14
Clark
A gimmick almost.
00:32:31:14 - 00:33:00:16
Cullen
Yeah, Yeah. So I think that to me, the choice to shoot this anamorphic was doesn't really not again, not that it looks bad in any way, but it doesn't really match up with the subject matter. It doesn't really do anything to me to bring me into the world of this movie. I think that if this movie was shot spiritually, that you would get a much more painterly kind of style out of it, that it would match the subject matter, it would match the production design.
00:33:00:22 - 00:33:39:18
Clark
Sort of make sure I understand what you're saying. Like, so in your mind, what your if I'm understanding you correctly, is that you're you kind of feel like the Lynch choices anachronistic to the Yeah. Subject basically it's like you're saying that since our only representations of this era are through paintings to use something so specific and, and that, and that introduces artifacts that are unique to the technology of cinema that you feel like that's, you know, when the choice could have been made to use a spherical lens which would have much less obvious or, you.
00:33:39:18 - 00:33:40:07
Cullen
Know, like.
00:33:40:09 - 00:33:40:21
Clark
Artifacts.
00:33:40:21 - 00:33:42:11
Cullen
Cinematic artifacts. Yeah.
00:33:42:11 - 00:33:47:00
Clark
So you feel like that would have been a more, a more appropriate kind of. I mean, I think there's.
00:33:47:08 - 00:34:06:20
Cullen
There's sort of two kind of comparisons I can make to. One of them is like, for example, Coppola decided not to use any Zoom lenses on The Godfather because the Zoom lenses weren't around in the in the era that the movie is set. And so he made a specific choice that he wanted to shoot it, you know, spherical because also anamorphic wasn't a thing that came out in the fifties.
00:34:07:22 - 00:34:28:22
Cullen
So he made a choice to shoot spherical on only primes so that the the language of the lenses matched the era. Spielberg chose to shoot Schindler's List in black and white, primarily black and white. Of course, the modern day stuff is is colored, but chose to shoot that in black and white because, you know, his decision on that was that the the footage that you see of that the photos that you see of the events of the Holocaust are black and white.
00:34:28:22 - 00:34:51:17
Cullen
And so it brings you into this world. Not that there obviously haven't been movies made about World War Two and stuff that are not anamorphic or, you know, there were plenty of anamorphic World War Two movies. There are plenty of color World War two movies. But I think that it's one of those things where you you, you know, when you're thinking about these choices, I think that it's again, it's one of those examples where it's like, I think the movie looks great.
00:34:51:17 - 00:35:08:01
Cullen
Amadeus. I think it looks really, really fantastic. I just would have made a different decision if I was sure, you know, in that chair at that time, which I'm not going to pretend that I could make a movie as great as Amadeus, but if I were to, you know, have made this movie himself, he would.
00:35:08:01 - 00:35:08:22
Clark
Have made a different choice.
00:35:08:23 - 00:35:11:12
Cullen
Random world I would have. Yeah. I would have made the the choice.
00:35:11:17 - 00:35:31:15
Clark
I mean, that's it's an interesting it's an interesting way to look at it for sure. And I think, you know, just to play a little bit of a devil's advocate, I feel like I think it's perfectly in line with the spirit of the film, which, you know, the subject matter itself is totally fictionalized. And you have such a modernization of language.
00:35:31:17 - 00:35:34:17
Clark
Clearly, people did not speak this way, nor.
00:35:34:17 - 00:35:35:12
Cullen
Yes, nor.
00:35:35:12 - 00:35:35:23
Clark
Are there.
00:35:36:03 - 00:35:37:04
Cullen
In American accents.
00:35:37:06 - 00:36:04:21
Clark
Even remotely appropriate, right? Yeah. So there's a tremendous amount of poetic license there. And and I feel like the anamorphic lenses, I think they look beautiful. But I also think beyond that, they're beneficial because you have so many scenes that take place, these performances, these huge scenes take place in these opera houses, in these theaters. And there's just so much going on.
00:36:04:21 - 00:36:35:16
Clark
There's these, you know, elaborate costumes and huge high wigs and chandelier is and, you know, it's just that the frame is just filled with so much data. And I think the benefit of the anamorphic lens in this situation where it kind of brings some of those more peripheral, you know, visual contents, a little bit out of focus. I think it actually helps kind of bring your eye to the to the subject matter that's important.
00:36:36:20 - 00:37:03:17
Clark
So I think it helps a little bit, you know, guided by and kind of keeping you from being so overwhelmed. And because some of these set and there is a lot of we haven't talked about music yet, but there's you know, there's an extended like at length long musical performances that are captured here. You know, I mean, it's where the camera is almost you know, it's like as if, you know, it's like like the earliest of films where basically the camera was just set in, you know, where an audience would sit in a theater.
00:37:03:17 - 00:37:19:13
Clark
And we see the whole stage and and it just plays out before us. There's a little bit of that going on. Obviously, we have editing and I mean, I'm not saying that's to that extreme. We definitely do to have different angles on the cameras moving around a bit, but there are, you know, there's a lot of that in here.
00:37:19:13 - 00:37:31:19
Clark
There's a lot of extended performance. Yeah. Yeah. And of course, I mean, my goodness, you know, like what a what a like an embarrassment of riches to have Mozart's music to draw from, Right.
00:37:32:08 - 00:37:33:03
Cullen
Oh God. Yeah.
00:37:33:07 - 00:38:02:18
Clark
For that. I mean, that clearly the film benefits greatly from having Mozart's music as its soundtrack. And I think, you know, one of the things that I really do love about this film and I actually think that about just kind of compare just for a second, what was that movie with Gary Oldman about Beethoven, beloved? I think it was oh, I don't know if you've seen the film, but I was just going to say that this film, like Beloved, I think, does does one thing really well, and that is that Immortal.
00:38:02:18 - 00:38:03:05
Cullen
Beloved.
00:38:03:10 - 00:38:34:09
Clark
Immortal. All of it. That's it. Thank you so much that I don't think that film is anywhere near as good as this film. But but one of the things both films I think does really well is is really effectively in parts this absolutely our appreciation of the beauty of music to the audience. I mean like, you know, through Salieri, when we see him reading these scores and then the music that he's that he's reading, you know it we start to hear it, you know, in the in the score of the film.
00:38:34:23 - 00:38:48:19
Clark
And it's just you know, watching F Murray's performance and listening to this music, it's like, I mean, jeez. And, you know, I think even if you're not a music fan, you can't help but to be moved, you know? Yeah.
00:38:49:07 - 00:39:04:10
Cullen
Well, I think one of the most brilliant things that they do is the rewrite of Salieri's, like entry March. And I think that that that brings somebody who may not have any interest in classical music or, you know, be in any way interested in the distinction between more.
00:39:04:10 - 00:39:05:05
Clark
Educated giving.
00:39:05:05 - 00:39:26:17
Cullen
Versus his his contemporaries. It immediately shows, you know, you've got salieri's music that sounds quite typical of classical music at the time. Yeah. And then and then to offset that and to kind of prove to you how groundbreaking Mozart was for the time they, he, he rewrites it. And then you got you're much more energetic and you know how much more functional and and well how.
00:39:26:18 - 00:39:49:08
Clark
A layperson can Yeah I think you know that's a brilliant that's a brilliant observation. They do this right off the bat in the end, nearly the very beginning of the film. And so it's, you know, hey, if you are unfamiliar with Mozart, if you are unfamiliar, which of course most people would be with Salieri if you're if you're a total layperson, if you don't have really any education in classical music, you're right.
00:39:49:08 - 00:40:19:06
Clark
They they lay this out so that anybody can see, you know, the difference. And it may be a little unfair to Salieri, this example they use. But, you know, it's super, super simple, you know, kind of March or kind of, you know, introduction piece of music that yeah, what's Mozart gets his hands on it you know it's yeah there's all this flourish and fun and it goes from a stiff, stodgy piece of music that's not very interesting at all to this you know, fun piece of music with personality and joy in it.
00:40:19:15 - 00:40:29:13
Clark
So you're right, They do a great job of using music to to color and illustrate the contrast between the two characters right off the bat.
00:40:29:13 - 00:40:55:17
Cullen
Mm hmm. Yeah. It's incredibly you know, it's also, I think when you see the the reactions of, um, I'm forgetting who is who. Like, who's the first guy that Mozart is working for? Who's the original guy that he that he kind of leaves to work for? Yeah, well, actually, Roman Emperor.
00:40:55:18 - 00:40:59:12
Clark
I tried. Gosh, you know, now. Now you're going to put me to task here because I think I.
00:40:59:12 - 00:41:21:02
Cullen
Yeah, I can't remember the period. So he's. But it's interesting. He's working for this other man at the beginning, wasn't it. And I like the, the, the idea that you've got all these people who, um, kind of despise him as a person but want him there for his talent like that. Refused to get rid of him simply because of his talent.
00:41:21:02 - 00:41:45:20
Cullen
And that Salieri cannot stand that, but also totally understands it and that he is also one of those people. You know, Salieri is in every way sitting there, admiring every time he sees Mozart's music and is is going nuts about it. And, you know, just when he's reading the papers that that Constance brings him and he drops them and he says, you know, it's magnificent.
00:41:45:20 - 00:42:09:05
Cullen
And all this that you've just got this completely, I think, empathetic approach to the character, which is that it's like, yeah, he seemed like he was a total pain in the ass. And again, that's not the historically necessarily accurate version, but but in terms of the context of the movie that you're sitting there like this guy would have been, you know, very annoying to have around and yet it does such a great job.
00:42:09:05 - 00:42:37:06
Cullen
The film of presenting him, because every time the music plays, the movie focuses on the music, the movie focuses on his music. And so not only do the people in the film forget that he is, you know, difficult to deal with for those, you know, 10 minutes of music that's playing. But but the audience also just kind of is brought into that world as well because you're kind of sitting there going, Oh, yeah, this guy was, you know, a brilliant musician and composer.
00:42:38:16 - 00:43:03:16
Cullen
But I do, I do like that that that you've got you know, it's not necessarily a huge part of the movie, but you do see this idea that like these these higher ups, these kings, these emperors, etc., put up with the, you know, kind of brazen back talking and and, you know, rudeness and of etiquette from him simply because of the fact that they they admired his work so much.
00:43:03:20 - 00:43:29:11
Cullen
And there's this kind of funny little like almost father son relationship with any figure of authority in this movie where he has you know, Mozart has no issue talking back to to royalty and talking back to the Holy Roman emperor himself. And, you know, I think it just makes, again, the movie a lot more accessible and weirdly makes the character of Mozart in this movie much more.
00:43:29:21 - 00:43:39:06
Cullen
You know, the movie is does a very good job of making you empathetic of each character, which I think is is, you know, often tough to do. And, you know, in a period piece like this.
00:43:40:10 - 00:44:05:18
Clark
I you know, one of the things talking about music and and I think what a what an integral I mean obviously but how well it's used here is I think you know near the end of the film, you know, there's like big chunks of this film where not much else is going on. And if it weren't. Yes. And there's this beautiful interplay of the discussion of the music and then the music coming in.
00:44:05:18 - 00:44:38:23
Clark
And I think, you know, the scene where Mozart is in bed ill and Salieri is taking dictation and helping him write the music that he's hearing. You know, if you if you just kind of what if you were to watch it without the sound on, you would see that there's this long stretch of time where you've just got a character in bed and a character sitting next to him, and we just go back and forth and, you know, considering it's a film, it's moving pictures, you know, there's not a lot being told and not a lot of story being told visually.
00:44:39:11 - 00:45:02:12
Clark
But the music sure does come in and do a lot of heavy lifting and really does it well. And this beautiful interplay, you know, with Schaffer script and the writing, I mean, I can imagine I would just imagine as an actor, if you were to get the script and you're looking at the scene and, you know, and all the dialog, it's like, you know, it's just this this kind of music lingo, which is like, okay, you know, start on a minor.
00:45:02:21 - 00:45:10:12
Clark
A minor? Yeah, a minor, of course. Okay, Then go to D, you know, I mean, it's you know what I mean? If you were to read it on the page, right.
00:45:11:03 - 00:45:12:14
Cullen
It's like, Yeah, yeah, there's.
00:45:12:14 - 00:45:21:05
Clark
Hardly anything there. But, but when, but it's again it is a big part of this of course is this, Both actors performances are outstanding.
00:45:22:01 - 00:45:22:20
Cullen
Use of music.
00:45:23:00 - 00:45:44:18
Clark
But, but that's Yeah. And then use and so that we can hear we're actually like it's illustrating to us okay what are they talking about. And it's kind of this fun little thing of getting to be almost, you know, in the room as Mozart is writing. And I mean, I can't read music. I would imagine that most people, most audience would not be able to to read music or understand most of what they would be talking about.
00:45:44:18 - 00:45:45:19
Cullen
So the terminology.
00:45:45:20 - 00:46:02:00
Clark
And the terminology, which of course, they keep it very simple, but nonetheless, I mean, we wouldn't be able to actually hear what they're talking about. So it's just I mean, it's it's it's just a super effective way to use music in the film. And it does it numerous times. And whether it's building character.
00:46:02:00 - 00:46:08:06
Cullen
Or it's one of those kind of like ingenious things because it's very simple. It's a very simple choice. Yeah, but it just works so well.
00:46:08:06 - 00:46:18:10
Clark
That well, I mean, in the hands of these performers too. I mean, I know we touched on it, but Kate, I just want to I mean, look, I think everybody's good in the film, but F Murray Abraham just knocks it out of the park.
00:46:19:15 - 00:46:22:04
Cullen
I it plays disdain like no other.
00:46:22:17 - 00:46:51:01
Clark
I mean, he really knocks it out of the park. And it's interesting in I can't you know I can't remember if this was the commentary or there's like a little like making of documentary. I think it's actually in the making of documentary that's on the Blu ray for this film where and I'm kind of surprised that Milos said this because it, you know, you could potentially take this is a little bit insulting, but he talks about how he felt like F Murray Abraham would be the ideal actor for this role.
00:46:51:01 - 00:47:16:17
Clark
I mean, not only of course, he's a great actor. Yes. But he was like he said that he felt like F Murray Abraham actually had these qualities, that he kind of was Salieri like that he, you know, was kind of full of ego and pride and kind of approached his, you know, that kind of embodied some of these things that that Milos wanted Salieri to represent in this film.
00:47:16:22 - 00:47:18:19
Clark
And I'm kind of surprised he said that out loud.
00:47:18:19 - 00:47:20:23
Cullen
Oh, yeah, that's the documentary.
00:47:20:23 - 00:47:47:20
Clark
Because it's like you very rarely ever hear, you know, because it could it be easy to take that in a derogatory way, you know? Yeah. So I was a little taken aback that he said that. But it makes sense. And I think you can kind of see that. I think, you know, obviously, I don't know if Murray Abraham, but I could certainly imagine, I mean, having recognized that in myself, you know, and in so many artist, I could completely see how that could be just a trait that's inherent in that actor.
00:47:48:07 - 00:47:54:00
Clark
Mm hmm. And, you know, and Milos pulled that out of him even further in the performance. But, I mean, I really just think.
00:47:54:00 - 00:48:04:12
Cullen
You know, is there is there anything in the other the director's commentary about their relationship that the two leads relationship during production?
00:48:05:18 - 00:48:26:02
Clark
You know not not that I recall not specific except except this, you know, so as we had kind of previously discussed, you know, F Murray Abraham, they they shot all of this stuff where he's older and he's in the asylum after his suicide attempt. And they shot all of that first.
00:48:26:11 - 00:48:26:18
Cullen
Over.
00:48:27:05 - 00:48:48:05
Clark
Over first couple two or three weeks. And, you know, that that allowed them to kind of set up logistics for other things while they were shooting. So they did that first. And so I think they kind of talked a little bit about how that that kind of isolated him a little bit from the rest of the production. He wasn't, you know, working with Mozart.
00:48:48:05 - 00:49:11:00
Clark
He you know, or with, you know, Tom, the performer playing Mozart. So I think, you know, there probably was a little bit of that isolation or kind of, you know, that probably did lend itself a little bit to the, you know, the the like conflict or butting heads that might have existed on camera, you know, But but other than that, they didn't really go into too much detail.
00:49:11:09 - 00:49:26:04
Clark
But I just got I mean, I feel like that I mean, as somebody who's who has has acted before and I am a big fan, I can only imagine having this role and such juicy all those monologues.
00:49:26:04 - 00:49:44:04
Cullen
Yeah, sure. Yeah, I can you imagine all the I mean, again, given all just like the points where you just act visually, you know, the points where he's just like a tertiary element of a scene and he's just standing, you know, I'm thinking all the moments when, when Omar Olmert, Mozart is talking to Olmert. Oh.
00:49:44:04 - 00:49:45:23
Clark
MARTIN Are you trying to.
00:49:45:23 - 00:49:46:06
Cullen
Speak.
00:49:46:06 - 00:49:50:03
Clark
Backwards? Are you trying to speak backwards Like like like in the film?
00:49:50:12 - 00:50:20:08
Cullen
Yes, exactly. Yeah. But when they're when they're having that conversation with the emperor, when when Mozart is kind of introduced and that that Salieri is very much just kind of like a tertiary element. But you still there's so much energy coming from him and you can feel like every choice that he's making is, is, you know, so present in so clear, which is, I think, a really tough thing to do to be sort of a part of an ensemble in a scene and still play up the elements that you want to play up and have them come across clearly.
00:50:21:04 - 00:50:22:07
Cullen
But he does it super well.
00:50:22:10 - 00:50:43:14
Clark
Yeah, I mean, I think everybody's great in the film and, you know, every Abraham definitely gets the biggest, you know, I think, chunk of praise. But Tom Hall's is really wonderful to it. I honestly I'm a little bit surprised. I mean, you had talked about how he kind of made a shift from acting to producing and directing for the stage where he has actually had a ton of success.
00:50:43:14 - 00:51:07:20
Clark
I mean, he's been nominated or won several Tony Awards and Drama Desk awards. Yeah. So he's definitely been successful on the stage. You know, as a producer director. Yeah. But I was almost surprised. You know, I think I remember even as a kid wondering, like, why am I not seeing movies with this guy in it? Yeah, because I thought he did such a great job.
00:51:07:20 - 00:51:19:11
Clark
And to have, you know, the, the title role in and such a hugely critically and commercially successful film, I was a little bit surprised that I didn't see.
00:51:19:11 - 00:51:22:01
Cullen
More of to be nominated and and you know.
00:51:23:05 - 00:51:23:16
Clark
So but.
00:51:23:16 - 00:51:27:08
Cullen
He chose to retire so yeah interacting with him.
00:51:27:09 - 00:51:32:22
Clark
Yeah. Interesting. I would be curious to kind of ask him or wonder why what went down with that?
00:51:32:22 - 00:51:45:16
Cullen
Well, I mean, I guess I mean, that could just be like that. For example, I always enjoyed acting as well, but I have not really much desire to to do it as a career could be, you know, even though I really enjoyed it.
00:51:45:16 - 00:51:50:06
Clark
And maybe he was just longing for greatness, like Sally is exactly what he could do.
00:51:50:16 - 00:51:54:07
Cullen
Yeah, he fit in perfectly. Life imitates art.
00:51:54:12 - 00:51:57:01
Clark
Yeah. There you go. There you go. Life definitely.
00:51:57:02 - 00:52:01:02
Cullen
Or maybe it was the loss. Yeah, it was the loss of the Academy Award to Sally area.
00:52:01:02 - 00:52:02:06
Clark
And I mean, that had to be.
00:52:02:06 - 00:52:03:03
Cullen
Roles are reversed.
00:52:03:11 - 00:52:17:02
Clark
Yeah. I guess in kind of a final irony there. Yeah. Yeah. That, that was probably difficult I would imagine, you know, for a film where so many other people are winning in their positions too to have a best picture and, and, and then, well.
00:52:17:03 - 00:52:20:15
Cullen
I wonder how many times has that happened where I don't have to Best.
00:52:20:16 - 00:52:22:06
Clark
Picture without a actor or.
00:52:22:06 - 00:52:24:01
Cullen
Well, or better lead actors.
00:52:24:01 - 00:52:31:21
Clark
Well, yeah, that's what I was going to say. So he didn't win. But that was because he lost to, you know, the film was kind of competing against itself.
00:52:31:21 - 00:52:41:13
Cullen
And exciting because of course, something very often. Is there a best actor, best supporting actor, best actress, best supporting actress from the same movie. But very rarely are there two best actors.
00:52:41:13 - 00:53:03:09
Clark
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, right. I would imagine that is rare. I don't know the answer to that, but I would imagine that that has not happened too often and that's got to feel weird. I guess that that's kind of a continuation. You know, like you said, art in life, it's like the the competition that existed in the film between the two characters kind of actually ended up existing in real life between the actors.
00:53:03:16 - 00:53:06:06
Clark
And this time, Salieri wins out.
00:53:06:20 - 00:53:07:08
Cullen
Exactly.
00:53:07:10 - 00:53:10:14
Clark
Yeah. Well, I guess on that note, we'll wrap it up.
00:53:10:20 - 00:53:11:02
Cullen
Yeah.
00:53:11:12 - 00:53:14:11
Clark
But I've enjoyed talking about Amadeus with you, sir.
00:53:14:11 - 00:53:15:12
Cullen
And a lot of fun. Yeah, it's.
00:53:15:12 - 00:53:24:20
Clark
Been a lot of fun. And I hope everybody out there. You enjoyed listening to it as well. We wish you a most wonderful couple of weeks. Until next time. We'll see you later.
00:53:24:21 - 00:53:27:03
Cullen
Bye bye.