Clark
Hello, everybody, and welcome once again to the Soldiers of Cinema podcast cast. With me, as always, is my fellow soldier of cinema, Mr. Cullen McFater.
00:00:23:21 - 00:00:24:07
Cullen
Hello.
00:00:24:09 - 00:00:25:03
Clark
So what's up?
00:00:25:03 - 00:00:27:05
Cullen
Too much? Not much. Been a while.
00:00:27:12 - 00:00:56:00
Clark
It has been a while. I mean, not that our listeners would know, but because we are release schedule is often different than our recordings schedule. But it has been a little bit of a break. Oh, yeah. By the way. And I'm Clark. Coffey? Just in case you didn't know. Yeah, I've been away. I've been away for three weeks in France and you've been busy and and you're going to actually get ready soon to go on your own wild world, world wide y wild.
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Cullen
Worldwide.
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Clark
Wild, wild, wild, worldwide adventure.
00:00:59:06 - 00:01:00:17
Cullen
We could talk about that later. The world.
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Clark
But for now and episode 52, we're going to discuss My Neighbor Totoro, which is your pic from 1988, directed by Hey, I'll. Hayao Miyazaki. Hayao Miyazaki.
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Cullen
You did call that. You predicted it.
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Clark
I did.
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Cullen
I did. I put money on it.
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Clark
And I always feel so bad because obviously the reason that these are sometimes difficult to pronounce is because that there's are names that aren't common in my culture, and then it makes me feel culturally inadequate. And then I feel like it's also rude. So I apologize, but. Moving on from that. But yeah, so this is this is your pick.
00:01:46:03 - 00:02:17:03
Clark
I think this is the first animated film that we've ever done. Is that the case? This is our first animated film, so I'm really excited and interested to see how this this discussion goes. I'll just I'll do like a big disclaimer here real quick, which is that although I very much like animated films, I, I am not even anywhere remotely as educated, or at least I feel inadequate almost when discussing animated films because I know so little about the process of how animated films are made.
00:02:17:19 - 00:02:33:16
Clark
I've never made one myself, whereas of course, you know, I've shot live action stuff many times before, so I feel like I'm so much more equipped to discuss a live action film. Whereas with an animated film, I really feel out of my depth so well.
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Cullen
I mean, I'm the same way I yeah, I know next to nothing in terms of the technical aspects.
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Clark
Of But we can still watch a set and discuss it as an audience, right?
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Cullen
Yeah, I did. I did do a lot of stop motion as a kid but that by looking more similar to the live action than Yeah, yeah.
00:02:50:21 - 00:03:20:10
Clark
No, I mean I didn't do much but I did do some and my stop motion films consisted of me taking my toys like my G.I. Joe and Transformer and He-Man Action Figures, which might date me just a little bit there, especially with the He-Man stuff. And basically I remember I would like, like attach like a like a pencil, like I could glue like a pencil to their head or something, or I would try to like, hold them, like out of frame.
00:03:20:18 - 00:03:31:19
Clark
And I would basically like, you know, barely, you know, like, you know, it was not even most of it wasn't even actually stop motion. I think I only did that once or twice. Mine was mostly like puppet team, mate.
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Cullen
Oh, yeah.
00:03:32:13 - 00:03:37:23
Clark
That's what you would more accurately called. My work would have been a puppeteer. Usually it's actually fingers.
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Cullen
I do like all of my early movies as a kid were all stop motion. I did a lot like Lego stop motion and like, use the action figures and stuff. I love. Yeah. And yeah, but that's, that's the closest to animation I did.
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Clark
Too far off. But how did you do? How did you do a frame by frame then? Because I'm assuming you had like tape, right? You had a video camera. Is that.
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Cullen
How did you know? So yeah, well, I used to, I mean, when I started in was using it like the video camera. It would just be a really quick presses record and really quick presses. Yeah. Because, because.
00:04:06:02 - 00:04:07:14
Clark
You can't really get an actual. Yeah.
00:04:07:14 - 00:04:18:02
Cullen
You can get a still. Yeah. Yeah. And then I got a like a really, really early canon. I think they were called like cyber shot back in the day was like.
00:04:18:11 - 00:04:18:14
Clark
An.
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Cullen
Early one of the.
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Clark
Early digital.
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Cullen
Like digital cameras or, or my mom got it, I didn't get it and so I used to use that. And at that point then of course, you can just take pictures. Although my first stop motion ever was using LEGO released a camera. It was a webcam that you could put into your computer via. Um. Oh, yeah.
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Clark
You're so much younger than me. You're like, Yeah.
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Cullen
You're a kid.
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Clark
You had webcams.
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Cullen
Although these things looked about. Yeah.
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Clark
When I was a kid, we didn't have the web and rate.
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Cullen
That's good point. Yeah.
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Clark
Yeah.
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Cullen
So yeah, I was this probably when I was eight. Seven. Yeah. I went to, I went to a film stop motion camp and that was where I did my first stop motion ever And I shouldn't say my first movies for stop motion. My first movies were much like yours, you know, video camera with the action figures in my.
00:05:04:18 - 00:05:18:23
Cullen
You're like my hands off happening. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And then I got to stop motion and and but I did in terms of animation do a unit of like adobe fireworks at school. When I was in high school, I.
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Clark
Never had.
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Cullen
Contact. And so I had very, very limited understanding of, you know, the frame by frame, which it will get into later when we get the technical elements. Because there's one specific thing that I learned from that that I think plays into this conversation. But I do want to also get the spoiler out of the way. A big twist.
00:05:36:00 - 00:05:41:07
Cullen
Yeah, which is that I and I assume that when I suggest this movie in case, you know, I assume for people who.
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Clark
The big twist is the campus has balls.
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Cullen
Back. Campus has balls. Yes. That's the we might as well end it right there.
00:05:48:03 - 00:05:54:23
Clark
Oh, gosh. Now we're going to have to put it mature on our explicit. Was that was that really what you were going to say?
00:05:54:23 - 00:06:15:05
Cullen
That wasn't what you were going to say. But for people who've been watching a long time, I can I can, you know, sort of get into figured out that that we you know, we go back and forth on our choices that Clarke watches a movie a week and I'll choose a movie you know and so I assume Clarke that when I chose this movie, you had probably, you know, thought that I had either watched this movie when I was a kid.
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Clark
Or, yeah.
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Cullen
You know, had an experience with it. But no, this is a movie that I watched the first time in January of this year.
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Clark
Yeah. So I was totally surprised by that because I yeah, I mean, obviously, I know you didn't watch it when it came out because it came out in 88. Yeah. So before I was born. But, but yeah, I did, I did assume that you probably had a relationship with this film that went back when you were much younger.
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Clark
So I am pretty surprised that you had only just recently seen this film.
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Cullen
Yeah. So I mean, and that was the thing is that I, it was kind of twofold for me. One was that we hadn't done animation yet.
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Clark
Mm hmm. Yep.
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Cullen
And I thought it'd be interesting.
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Clark
Yeah.
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Cullen
Just to see what we have to say about it. And you picked a good one. I mean, technically proficient in terms of animation or.
00:06:57:09 - 00:06:57:14
Clark
Right.
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Cullen
Super knowledgeable about the craft of animation. I think it, you know, it again, it just kind of puts us more into the shoes of like an average audience member, right? Much more than somebody looking on it with the eye of, of a creator in that way.
00:07:11:18 - 00:07:12:04
Clark
Yeah.
00:07:13:18 - 00:07:36:09
Cullen
And the second reason that I wanted to was because this is again, one of those those like rare movies that I watched the first time as an adult. This is, you know, of course, on unabashedly, this is a children's movie. It's it's made for children. However, I was kind of blown away and I'd seen Ghibli movies before. It's seen Spirited Away and I'd seen.
00:07:36:09 - 00:07:36:22
Clark
Yep, me too.
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Cullen
Okay. And all those Howl's Moving Castle Castle. And I was like, blown away by how inspired I was by this movie that that I started wanting to write, you know, my own. You know, I've always I've always had a desire to not solely make kids content, but I think that, like, making a children's movie will be a lot of fun.
00:07:54:15 - 00:08:12:21
Cullen
And I've always kind of wanted to do that. And this really, like, brought me into this mode of like where I've been plotting up this, this, this kid's movie. And it also just for a movie that I did not grow up with for a kids movie, I did not grow up with. I feel such a strong connection to this movie after having seen it, you know, four months ago for the first time.
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Cullen
Yeah, I've watched it like four times since then.
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Clark
Yeah.
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Cullen
You know, something just really well.
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Clark
Been I.
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Cullen
Mean, with this movie.
00:08:19:09 - 00:08:27:10
Clark
And I'm interested too, because, I mean, I don't mean to say this in any kind of derogatory way, but you're not far removed from your childhood.
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Cullen
No. I mean.
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Clark
Relative to me, for example. Yeah, right. So it's interesting to me that that this film has such a nostalgic effect on you when you've not you know, you're a young adult and you're not too far removed from your childhood. So that's it. Yeah, I think. What do you think that is?
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Cullen
I don't know. I mean, because we so we one of the first movies that we did when we were getting out of the Herzog kind of phase was E.T..
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Clark
Oh, yeah. I think in that.
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Cullen
Episode we just Right. Yeah. And I sort of said that like, you know, I grew up I was the younger sibling. Um, and I always like growing up with E.T., like with the movie. Always really, really related to Elliot in that movie. Yeah, sure. He's the younger sibling. He's kind of like, teased by his older brother and his friends.
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Cullen
And I.
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Clark
Related to him and I didn't even he, you know, Yeah.
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Cullen
He's technically the middle child, but this his younger sisters is sort of more of a secondary character, that movie. Um, and it was the same thing here was like I, you know, of course this movie's about two sisters, Satsuki and Mae, and, you know, I watched this movie and I think that they're both really well written and well crafted and well-rounded characters.
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Cullen
But like, there's something about Mae that I just feel like, you know, speaks to me. So, like, on such a profound and like, fundamental level.
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Clark
Because, I mean, it's a four year old. I think she's like four years old. And so she's very, very young. But I.
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Cullen
I remember the exact, you know, the feeling of like curiosity and just wanting to you know, I grew up outside of Toronto and there's like a big nature kind of not preserved, but there's like a very large forest. It's a canoe, a marsh down by the lake near my house. And I grew up a lot in there and like going down to the lake and there's always turtles and deer.
00:10:18:21 - 00:10:35:10
Cullen
And sometimes deer would be on my front lawn in the morning and things like that. And so he said, it's very, very, you know, insightful curiosity about the nature. And I don't even think, you know, as a kid you're not really thinking about it as nature. You're just thinking about it as like the surroundings of where you live.
00:10:35:19 - 00:11:01:04
Cullen
And watching. The way that may in this movie explores, you know, with like such a bravery to that. There's so many moments in, you know, in a lot of other movies that that are similar. You know, the opening of this movie is them getting to their house and they find out it's haunted and instead of their reaction being, you know, horrified, they're like, we're going to march around the house and figure out, get to the bottom of this.
00:11:01:04 - 00:11:02:17
Cullen
And then, well, it's a mixture.
00:11:02:23 - 00:11:07:01
Clark
It's a mixture of a little bit of fear, but excitement, curiosity.
00:11:08:03 - 00:11:08:21
Cullen
And mixture.
00:11:08:21 - 00:11:09:19
Clark
Of those things, which.
00:11:09:20 - 00:11:11:06
Cullen
So I think at that point it.
00:11:11:06 - 00:11:12:09
Clark
Just yeah, really speaks.
00:11:12:09 - 00:11:41:13
Cullen
To me on kind of like I really, really relate to just that feeling. And I'm sure that a lot of other people do too. Like, I don't think that, you know, I'm unique in having being a curious child. Sure. But I will say that this movie is unique in portraying children like that in sort of not dumbing it down and not simplify, saying the kids, you know, May is again, like we said, she's four years old and this and but she really acts like an authentic child.
00:11:41:13 - 00:11:54:07
Cullen
She's not like it doesn't feel like she's someone written by an older man. It feels like she's like a real, real and of course, she's, you know, animated. So it's not like there's there's a physical actor portraying this role.
00:11:54:10 - 00:11:56:05
Clark
Well, there is an actor portraying.
00:11:56:05 - 00:12:19:15
Cullen
The role, but I think about that physical sense. Yeah, Yeah. But you you just the the detail, the level of authenticity and the just truthfulness, I think in the way that these characters are written, in the way that they're animated, I think is is enough to really make me, you know I'm turning 24 very soon.
00:12:19:15 - 00:12:20:05
Clark
Old man.
00:12:20:05 - 00:12:40:09
Cullen
Month I know I'm elderly but the fact that a movie that I'm seeing for the first time at this age can make me so fundamentally relate to a four year old girl, right? It's like that. How does that happen? You know, like it just kind of speaks to the level of which this, I think, is.
00:12:40:10 - 00:12:40:19
Clark
Is.
00:12:41:05 - 00:12:43:19
Cullen
Just really, you know, purely genius in a way.
00:12:44:06 - 00:13:08:08
Clark
Well, I think, you know, obviously it's so so I'll rewind real quick to it to get myself up to speed with with where you're at, which is, you know, we kind of understand where, when and where and how you came to this film. So for me, I had seen other films, the Ghibli films I had seen, oh, Ogres, I think pretty much the same ones that you saw.
00:13:08:08 - 00:13:33:20
Clark
I've seen it. And my wife really likes these films, too. We usually will watch them together. We've seen, like, Kiki's delivery service, Princess Mononoke, Spirited Away, Howl's Moving Castle. So we've seen a handful of these films. So but I hadn't seen this film. I definitely heard of it because it it is regularly on like the top, you know, of the best animated films of all time list, right?
00:13:34:01 - 00:13:55:12
Clark
I mean, so this film is universally loved. You know, it's critically and commercially it's been very successful, which even in, you know, around the world, it's extremely is my understanding, it's extremely popular. And its characters are kind of part of the pop culture in Japan to much greater extent. There is.
00:13:55:12 - 00:13:57:04
Cullen
A there's a Totoro house, so.
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Clark
There is.
00:13:58:12 - 00:13:59:16
Cullen
A built in. Yeah.
00:13:59:16 - 00:14:26:06
Clark
So so I mean, a lot of people I think feel very much the way you feel. You know, when I watched the film for the first time, I mean these are some of the biggest impressions that I had as well. You know, I'm about 20 years older than you, so it I experience it maybe a little bit differently, but, you know, very much I mean, immediately this this the the way I kind of translated it was this it's very much a film.
00:14:26:06 - 00:14:47:11
Clark
I think it's about exploration. It's about curiosity. And there isn't this overriding huge strong plot. It's not a plot driven film. It's not a conflict driven film. It's not a protagonist antagonist film. It's a lot of things we could talk about that's a little more. But, you know, these modern Pixar and Disney movies follow a pretty strict formula.
00:14:47:11 - 00:15:11:07
Clark
And that formula absolutely involves a protagonist, an antagonist. It involves the hero going through this, this challenge, and then coming out on the other side a stronger, better person, etc.. None of that happens in this film. This film is not about that. This film is really about in my mind, it's about exploration, it's about curiosity, and it's about a connection to your environment.
00:15:11:18 - 00:15:31:00
Clark
And for me, a really the nostalgic kind of connection I had with it was, yeah, I used to go to my parents farm, not my parents farm, I'm sorry, my grandparents farm. When I was a kid, we would it was maybe like a three, two or three hour drive, something like that to my grandparents farm. They they lived on a working farm.
00:15:31:00 - 00:15:55:08
Clark
They retired when I was, I think like ten or so, but they still lived on the farm. My parents, I'd go with my parents. Of course I would run around. It's just this huge rural area with like nothing but this, you know, house and then farmland everywhere, you know. But my grandparents had like, you know, so I would just like, run around on this farm all by myself when I was young.
00:15:55:19 - 00:15:59:20
Clark
And you just explore stuff, you know, you're like, well, what's over here? What's over there?
00:15:59:20 - 00:16:02:02
Cullen
And, you know, I'd pick up a stick and it's a source. Yeah.
00:16:02:07 - 00:16:24:21
Clark
Oh, my God. Yeah. And they used to burn their trash. So they had this, like, huge, like, you know, area where they burn trash. And it would be like all of these, like, treasures of, like, you know, old aerosol cans or like, tractor parts or, you know, all this stuff. And so, yeah, I mean, my God, in my mind, I'm like, you know, unadventurous for hours and hours and hours.
00:16:24:21 - 00:16:53:19
Clark
I'm myself, you know, from like dusk till dawn. You're just like, it's so I felt like a real connection to that, where it was like this combination of exploration and childhood imagination and turning everything into an adventure because it because it is new, right? When you're young, almost everything you experience is new and your imagination is vivid and and so it's this really beautiful combination of experiencing things for the first time, your imagination running wild with it.
00:16:54:18 - 00:17:46:12
Clark
So I felt that big time and also was really overwhelmingly charming and sincere and kind and, and soft in a way. Kind of. Yeah, but. But not saccharine, not fake. I think like emotionally authentic, which is what you had talked about. And and there is some melancholy in it with the sick mother, you know. So it's not it's not that that we've removed aspects of life that, you know, involve suffering or I mean that's there to challenge and loss is kind of in that but but yeah so it I sense all these things that you said and so it was really quite a like a pleasant, you know, not feel good but kind of, you
00:17:46:12 - 00:17:47:14
Clark
know, I guess nostalgia.
00:17:47:14 - 00:17:54:02
Cullen
It just it sort of feels like just kind of like experiencing like that's kind of the like the M.O. of the movie is just.
00:17:54:04 - 00:17:54:10
Clark
Know.
00:17:54:19 - 00:17:59:11
Cullen
That you're just you're experiencing these things with with these kids and.
00:17:59:23 - 00:18:14:08
Clark
A sense of wonder, you know, like a sense of wonder and a sense of like kind of, you know, and I had this thought I was like, God, you know, if I had kids. And for like a 10th of a second, I had this thought of like, oh, man, I'm kind of sad. I don't have kids yet. That would be a great thing.
00:18:14:08 - 00:18:23:17
Clark
We're like, I had a so my wife and I, we don't have children and we don't have plans to have children. But this film for like half a second, I was like, Who should I rethink that?
00:18:24:02 - 00:18:38:02
Cullen
It's in this movie. I totally feel that as well. Like this movie makes you like like just on a very weird level, almost like you want to be a parent. Yeah. Okay. You know what? So, so I think.
00:18:38:02 - 00:18:46:18
Clark
So idealized, like the father daughter relationship is very idealized. The rural setting is very idealized and everyone's happy.
00:18:46:18 - 00:18:47:15
Cullen
And, you know, there's.
00:18:47:15 - 00:19:00:23
Clark
This like sense of community and, and, and, and just yeah, I mean, you know, so in a sense, even though we do have the sick mother, but even that her illness is kind of idealized in a sense.
00:19:01:00 - 00:19:12:14
Cullen
It's I think I think the way the other thing too is that that it's it's everyone is you know, there's there's such a tranquility with the way that they deal with the problems. The film.
00:19:12:18 - 00:19:13:14
Clark
Is not in any good.
00:19:13:15 - 00:19:21:11
Cullen
Way. Again, there's no antagonist. There's no but, you know, even in the moments when, you know, the sisters are fighting or may the you.
00:19:21:11 - 00:19:21:22
Clark
Know, it's going to.
00:19:21:22 - 00:19:49:00
Cullen
Be thing, you know, it's going to be okay. But you also get to kind of see the process within which these kids deal with this stuff and kind of put it into perspective. You know, the moment when they're running home in the rain and Mae slips and falls and like face first into a puddle of mud and then stands up and is just kind of, you know, staring, starstruck at that, the fact that she just did that and then before she can even start crying sucks, Gabe comes and pulls her along because they got to go to the rain.
00:19:49:00 - 00:20:01:19
Cullen
And then 5 seconds later, Mae is kind of proud of herself for not having cried. Yeah, and it's like one of those things that, you know, everybody kind of remembers that. That feeling of like, I fell and scraped my knee and I didn't cry. And I'm so proud of myself.
00:20:01:19 - 00:20:02:03
Clark
Yeah.
00:20:02:08 - 00:20:34:15
Cullen
So it's it's so I think so simple and, and it's a really great, you know, if, if you have children, um, a really great, I think, way to show kids that like, you know, you can have issues in life and that's fine. You know, you can the best thing to do is to like, deal with those issues. I think it's very authentic in that way, and I know that then Miyazaki's kind of like overarching theme when when creating the movie was just that he wanted children to be able to say, like, it's wonderful to be alive.
00:20:34:19 - 00:20:55:08
Cullen
And and I think that that's I think that's the other thing about the the sort of darker elements of the film, which is, again, nothing too dark and the mother sick and the kids are, of course, dealing with it. The dad's in Tokyo working a lot. And so they're they're alone plenty of times. And, you know, there's a lot of scenes where it's like it just feels very authentic.
00:20:55:08 - 00:21:03:09
Cullen
In when Satsuki is at school and granny brings May they're not the real grandmother, but she's kind of like a, you know, babysitting the neighbors nearby.
00:21:03:09 - 00:21:04:01
Clark
An older neighbor.
00:21:04:01 - 00:21:29:00
Cullen
Yeah, my neighbor granny. And she brings me to the school and Mae is just like sort of crying because she just wanted to be with her sister at school. And she's, you know, obviously these kids are I think that the genius element of the writing in this movie is that they they understand that the kids are dealing with this stuff, but they treat it in the way that kids would treat it, which is not really being able to vocalize that and say that.
00:21:29:00 - 00:21:50:06
Cullen
So when the mother is, you know, unable to come home from the hospital and you've got the two kids fighting. And Mae's response is just to say that it's not fair and to start crying and they start the girls start yelling at each other and like, that's totally how a child would would react to that situation. They wouldn't they wouldn't express their feelings.
00:21:50:06 - 00:22:17:03
Cullen
They wouldn't express their emotions. The older sibling, of course, would get, you know, frustrated and just yell at the kid and call him a baby. And, you know, that that one scene that's like one of my favorite moments in the movie, just because it it's dealing with these things in such a just a gentle, authentic way that I think a lot of movies would make superfluous.
00:22:17:03 - 00:22:19:02
Cullen
They would make them kind of not superfluous.
00:22:20:01 - 00:22:22:03
Clark
Well, they would have They really fantastic.
00:22:22:12 - 00:22:23:08
Cullen
Yeah. And they would.
00:22:23:18 - 00:22:24:16
Clark
Often children.
00:22:25:04 - 00:22:28:22
Cullen
Would end with them talking to each other about why they felt that.
00:22:28:22 - 00:22:29:11
Clark
Like adult.
00:22:29:11 - 00:22:52:12
Cullen
There would be a very, you know, really early lesson and moral of the story whereas this really just it kind of I think on the inverse and I think this goes well with what you were saying about how it's like the characters don't really change too much through the movie, that it's more so about, you know, where you see a Pixar movie that's about like big change and overcoming obstacles and being a better person on the other side.
00:22:53:01 - 00:23:11:11
Cullen
I think the the kind of like motif with this movie is just kind of almost like being comfortable and happy and learning to to accept where you are and kind of like live in that moment and, and, and just kind of accept that and make the best out of that that moment rather than solving every problem.
00:23:11:11 - 00:23:37:15
Clark
Well, and this is and it's not a question we can answer here, I don't think certainly it's an area that I am not an expert in, but it's but that it's one of the most interesting things to me. I mean, maybe it is the most interesting thing to me about this film from a thematic perspective, which what you just described and, you know, you can compare this film to its contemporary, you know, its equivalents in North America.
00:23:38:15 - 00:24:07:00
Clark
And of course, that would you're going to compare that to Disney films, to Pixar films, which is one of the same now. But but I'm curious, I mean, and I think it probably does speak to maybe a fairly substantial cultural difference. You know, in in North America, we have a very aspirational, very specifically type of aspirational society. And our our films often mirror this, and especially, I feel like in these Pixar and Disney films, right.
00:24:07:01 - 00:24:27:21
Clark
It's it's every one of these films is about a personal journey of growth, right? I mean, they're they're always about you have a character, they start at a place, a they're confronted with a challenge. You know, it's it's scary, scary and harrowing. And they have to you know, it's.
00:24:27:21 - 00:24:28:12
Cullen
The hero's journey.
00:24:28:21 - 00:24:40:02
Clark
It's the hero's journey is exactly what it is. And then, you know, and so and then they come out at the end and they've learned something and they've grown. They're a better they're in a better place. They're a better person.
00:24:42:03 - 00:25:20:05
Clark
And it's interesting to I feel like so and I'm a big fan of the hero's journey and I'm a big fan of films like that. But I often wonder what the cost of almost all of our stories being that is. Mm hmm. I wonder if we have oversaturate did ours or, you know, it was Stories are such an important part of how we were like learned to relate to our world and to ourselves and I almost wonder if we've gotten to a place of like over aspirational of old, where it's just if you're not constantly working on being a quote unquote better person, whatever the heck that means.
00:25:20:12 - 00:25:54:16
Clark
If you're not always looking to the future, like, then you're doing something wrong. You're failing as a human almost. And I am so appreciative of this other this other way of looking at things, which is to be present in the moment, to be accepting of yourself, to realize that, you know, because in a certain sense there's like a real egotism to this other way of looking at things where the world around you is there to make you a better person in a way, right?
00:25:54:16 - 00:26:04:15
Clark
Like the there's an antagonist, there's like these things in the world that are there to present challenges to you so that you can grow and get better. It's like learn a lesson.
00:26:04:15 - 00:26:05:03
Cullen
You go.
00:26:05:06 - 00:26:23:03
Clark
It's like a super like egocentric way of looking at the world, right? Like it's there for you to get better and and you, the reason for your existence is for you to become a better person. It's so different than the world is there for you to develop a relationship with it.
00:26:23:03 - 00:26:23:12
Cullen
Mm hmm.
00:26:24:03 - 00:26:54:04
Clark
And the world is there for you to be curious about. Yeah, and. And maybe even serve as opposed to expect that world to serve you in your personal growth journey. And, you know, there I wish that I were more educated in more aspects of Japanese culture. There are aspects that I am a little bit familiar with that are really intriguing to me and this animism and is that right?
00:26:54:04 - 00:26:55:04
Cullen
And this animism.
00:26:55:13 - 00:27:19:17
Clark
Is part of it. I, I feel and maybe we all feel like this to some extent. I don't know if you do. I'm curious, but I feel like I almost have this like innate thing that I do with inanimate objects where I kind of give them a life and a story, and sometimes it's almost even hard to like throw something away because I feel like almost like I'm hurting.
00:27:19:17 - 00:27:21:05
Cullen
So it's got attachment. Yeah.
00:27:21:15 - 00:27:40:06
Clark
Or that not even if I buy personally attachment. I'm like, Oh man. I'm like, hurt. Like, this thing is like it's a it's somehow has some kind of soul or it has some kind of, you know, the way I kind of define it is that everything has a story behind it like it was, you know, there's a story like this thing had a life somehow, like, how did it get to me?
00:27:40:06 - 00:27:49:09
Clark
How did it get to here? And there's like a life to it almost. So there's like this way that I feel like I kind of relate to that totally.
00:27:49:09 - 00:27:57:23
Cullen
Yeah. I mean, just for those who don't know, Animism is kind of the idea that, like every item objects element in nature rock like.
00:27:58:04 - 00:27:58:23
Clark
Has kind of like a.
00:27:58:23 - 00:28:22:14
Cullen
Soul or even words can have. Yeah, like a soul or spirit or is some sort of, you know, connection. And I'm not a spiritual or a, you know, a religious person. You're not a superstar, as I know you're not either. But I think that I think that to a a a very like, you know, beautiful degree. I believe in magic.
00:28:22:14 - 00:28:44:08
Cullen
It just may not be the magic that is usually defined as magic. Right? No, I think that there is a a wonder to the world. Right. That that just happened to come about, which I think is is spectacular that these these elements are so perfectly in play that we can experience these things. And so I think so when I say I'm not spiritual, I mean more so in the.
00:28:44:08 - 00:28:47:20
Cullen
Yeah, exactly. The supernatural sense of the word. I don't believe that, you know, you.
00:28:47:20 - 00:28:48:20
Clark
Still have art, you.
00:28:48:20 - 00:28:49:10
Cullen
Still. But there.
00:28:50:10 - 00:28:51:23
Clark
Is and there's an.
00:28:51:23 - 00:29:11:17
Cullen
Element to which I can still, you know, completely grasp all these elements and believe in them just in perhaps a slightly different way than than a religious person would believe it. And I think that that's a big part of it is just that the and I think what you described as it being like stories is a really good way to describe it.
00:29:12:14 - 00:29:13:10
Clark
That's how I relate it.
00:29:13:11 - 00:29:33:23
Cullen
I've got this is this funny kind of thought that that keeps coming up for me is that like when you die, the the moments that you experienced on your own in a way cease to exist. Because if you are, memory is the only thing that really preserved those moments. And you were the only person to observe those moments and experience them.
00:29:34:09 - 00:29:56:00
Cullen
Then by all metrics, when the one person, the one single person who who experienced those those things passes on and you know, as or if you don't believe there's an afterlife ceases to exist in that moment, then so do all those memories. And so I think that that's a really, you know, interesting way to look at that. And some people may think that's a sad thing.
00:29:56:00 - 00:30:17:05
Cullen
I don't I think that's more of a beautiful thing in a way that that these these moments are yours. And it's kind of like experiencing them with these these moments and elements and objects that have stories of their own, that there's all these things that you as a person, simply because you're experiencing them, can, can put on those those elements.
00:30:17:05 - 00:30:43:22
Cullen
So I think that that's kind of to me, a lot of, you know, I don't know if that's an intentional thing. I would doubt that it was an intentional element in the movie. But that's something that I also get out of the movie is just that Those are those moments where you're alone as a child running around and exploring and, you know, maybe I didn't run into a giant Totoro in my, you know, the forest near my house and and have a magical experience where I felt that there was a gap.
00:30:44:03 - 00:30:45:14
Clark
In your imagination that.
00:30:46:04 - 00:31:01:12
Cullen
Exactly is there still you're you you have you know the shadows on the ground that are cast by trees can turn into two you know goblins and the clouds are castles and things like that. And I think that that's something that this movie really.
00:31:02:04 - 00:31:02:13
Clark
Gets.
00:31:02:13 - 00:31:08:07
Cullen
Explores, but not in a literal sense. It just it just it's it kind of just lives in those elements.
00:31:08:08 - 00:31:40:22
Clark
Yeah. You mentioned stuff that I want to touch on real quick because it tight. You know, you talk about kind of the fleeting nature of things and how as opposed to feeling sad about that, you feel like there's a beauty there. And I think that's that's, that's another thing. So I probably butcher the exact pronunciation, but in kind of the Japanese have a phrase motto, know aware, which is like that it is actually it does the reason things are beauty and this is my own interpretation of this.
00:31:40:22 - 00:32:00:01
Clark
I'm not saying this is like, but my interpretation of this kind of philosophy is that it the fleeting nature of things is kind of what gives them their beauty to recognize that all things are fleeting. So including childhood. And I think that's one of the reasons that you can look at this film and with such love in your heart for these characters.
00:32:00:01 - 00:32:18:13
Clark
Is that because we all know that childhood is fleeting and that's, you know, and it stays with us, We have like this little kernel, you know, we always kind of carry that child with us inside of us for the rest of our life. But but childhood does transform into something else. We turn into adults. You can't hold on to it forever.
00:32:18:13 - 00:32:31:15
Clark
You shouldn't write. That would be that would be. You're refusing to accept the call of life if you were to stay a child forever. But but there is. But that beauty kind of stays inside of us. And like this.
00:32:31:18 - 00:32:33:04
Cullen
It informs us in a lot of ways.
00:32:33:04 - 00:33:02:00
Clark
And it. Oh, my gosh, does it ever inform us? Absolutely. But I think that's kind of it's not explicitly stated that that, you know, their childhood is going to end. But I think that is a part of the beauty of this is that that words were we know that it will and we've all lost a certain amount of innocence and we've all lost a certain amount, you know, and of course, that the people who made this film are adults and they've gone through that process themselves.
00:33:02:17 - 00:33:23:17
Clark
So it's kind of this interesting thing when you look back and try to recreate childhood in a piece of fiction that you're kind of looking back on your own childhood now as an adult and you're kind of interpreting that or trying to represent that in a work of art. But but I think that's a big part of this, and I think it's a big part of our experience.
00:33:23:17 - 00:33:45:18
Clark
And I almost wonder, you know, you having recent more recently transitioned from a child to an adult, it's interesting I I'd be my hypothesis is, is that maybe that's a big part of why it was such a really grabbed you. Mm hmm. Because you that's that transition is kind of fresh maybe for you.
00:33:45:18 - 00:34:04:20
Cullen
Yeah. There's still Yeah. And you know, and I also I think that even beyond being close to, to childhood, you know, I also work with with kids. You know, I actually the last night was my final duty, potentially my final film class ever. Oh, wow. So there was there was a little bit of nostalgia.
00:34:04:22 - 00:34:09:09
Clark
Not ever. I don't think it's your last film class ever. It could be teach again in your life.
00:34:09:09 - 00:34:10:09
Cullen
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
00:34:10:09 - 00:34:12:07
Clark
But you have two years left. You know.
00:34:12:07 - 00:34:20:03
Cullen
It was there was a lot of the students had been with me for like five, six years. That and you know, now they're all going off to university. And so like I'd watch these kids.
00:34:20:03 - 00:34:20:15
Clark
Yeah.
00:34:20:21 - 00:34:48:00
Cullen
There's a chance that I will go back. It's not it just depends on where my life is in September. But so I think that also not that specific thing that I had last night, but just the fact that I, you know, I'm around kids a lot. And yeah, I think that also kind of brings an element. And I do also want to touch on one really quick thing, which is and this is this is related to what we're talking about that the so there's a fan theory online and I oh yeah I know talk about this You.
00:34:48:00 - 00:34:49:04
Clark
Exposed me to this. I did.
00:34:49:04 - 00:34:50:02
Cullen
Yeah. And I wasn't.
00:34:50:02 - 00:34:50:15
Clark
Aware it Yeah.
00:34:50:19 - 00:35:11:00
Cullen
Yeah. And it's actually got a lot of traction weirdly, which is that at the end of the film, there's a theory that they may in Suffolk die, that they are, you know, that when May runs away that the idea of them being saved by the campus and by Totoro is them like transitioning into the spirit world because they've both died.
00:35:11:18 - 00:35:13:17
Clark
Which is so I have friends, I have friends.
00:35:13:17 - 00:35:18:22
Cullen
So, you know, when I said I first watched this movie back in January, they're like, Yeah, And that ending is so sad how they said.
00:35:18:22 - 00:35:19:13
Clark
Oh, and.
00:35:19:14 - 00:35:33:12
Cullen
I was like, It's so strange. And I think that so and so firstly on, on a like a literal level, you know, Miyazaki and Ghibli have said that, no, this is not the case, that they're all you can.
00:35:33:12 - 00:35:36:01
Clark
Look it up and they've explicitly said that's not our intent.
00:35:36:01 - 00:35:50:02
Cullen
There's also at the end of the movie, you see them embracing granny and then the credits are them like growing up with a younger, like they have a new sibling. And so that was also great film. Yeah. So there's a short 30 minute short film called May in the Kitten Bus, which came out in early 2000.
00:35:50:02 - 00:35:52:01
Clark
That moment. Yeah. I was surprised even.
00:35:52:01 - 00:36:12:15
Cullen
You know, that's a sequel. It's a sequel to the movie. So they're very much alive. I didn't mean neither one when that was said to me. I was like, What? Yeah, Yeah. But I think that the reason for that is that a lot of people, and especially as you get into adulthood, they need there to be a grounding aspect on the magic.
00:36:12:20 - 00:36:13:13
Clark
You can't just there.
00:36:13:13 - 00:36:38:06
Cullen
Is what I think is exceptional about this movie is that. No, yeah it's just, it is magical. There is no explanation for it. And I think that, you know, Miyazaki is a really great it's not a direct quote. So, you know, I'll paraphrase I'll paraphrase for a second. But but it was essentially when someone was like asking what the the like function of the total rows are like what they do in the forest, you know, where the forest guardians are they.
00:36:38:06 - 00:36:42:15
Cullen
And he was like, well, sort of, but that doesn't really matter, you know, because.
00:36:42:15 - 00:36:44:04
Clark
They're, they're guarding anything. There's not.
00:36:44:04 - 00:36:59:13
Cullen
Yeah. And he was like, he was like, they're just, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's as much as if they went through and explained that in the film. What would be the point of that. Yeah. You know I don't I don't when I was a child I didn't see this like great big tree on the front of my school yard.
00:36:59:13 - 00:37:25:08
Cullen
And I think that it had to have some sort of, you know, you just think that it's something that's sort of magical because it's a huge tree. And to relate to the idea of of like animism for a moment, too, that that tree when I was in this this is elementary school when I was I think in grade four or five, they cut it down because it was really old and it was this huge, you know, probably I don't know how many, how high it was, but it was it was very big.
00:37:25:08 - 00:37:28:17
Cullen
It was much probably, you know, three times as high as the school itself.
00:37:28:21 - 00:37:29:07
Clark
Wow.
00:37:29:15 - 00:37:34:14
Cullen
Huge. And really, really big trunk and all that. And it was right on the front.
00:37:34:14 - 00:37:36:03
Clark
A shameful corner down.
00:37:36:07 - 00:37:55:07
Cullen
Yeah. And it was just it was just at that point it was really old and that was a safety hazard. But I remember it was like this this every kid at the school without even really talking about it had this like profound sadness about the loss of this tree. Like it was like a friend of ours and nobody had ever talked about it before.
00:37:55:07 - 00:38:21:21
Cullen
It wasn't like I came into class and said, like, isn't it so sad that the tree is gone? Like, we all just kind of like, were walking home from school and saw the stump and just sort of stood there for 5 minutes looking at the thing. And it was like, you know? So I think that I think that there is a, you know, a very fundamental element to childhood that that kind of sees that you just you, you, you personify things and you you, you know, animism is I just have a thought.
00:38:21:21 - 00:38:39:02
Clark
I just had a thought. Yeah. Okay. Okay. And this will be fun because we can tie it back to our roots with this podcast a little bit, which was our focus on Werner Herzog. But do you remember when we you know, when we were we were kind of rolling through some of his films and we were talking about like a landscape of the soul, right?
00:38:39:02 - 00:39:10:05
Clark
Mm hmm. Do you remember that? Yeah. And how you know Herzog would. And I feel like he is this is really a strength that that, you know, he finds these really beautiful landscapes that when he films them and puts them in the context of the films he makes, I mean, the really extraordinarily like effective at convey, conveying some kind of like primal kind of something about what it is to be human and live in our world.
00:39:10:17 - 00:39:34:19
Clark
And I almost feel like maybe this film in a way, with those with those characters, it's almost like a totally different way to represent a landscape of the soul and how our landscape affects us and how we interact with them and how I mean, because I don't I'm trying to articulate this thought as it's like still developing in my mind here.
00:39:35:04 - 00:39:39:15
Clark
So I'm hanging out there on a wire, but I don't know if that. Does this make sense? A little bit.
00:39:39:23 - 00:39:41:01
Cullen
Yeah, no, definitely.
00:39:41:04 - 00:39:59:18
Clark
And that's it's and so having these characters, having the Totoro and the Cat bus and everything, instead of trying to define them. Right. As like, okay, they're guardians and now you know, we're going to the, the film's going to have some plot where they have to, you know, they're at risk and, you know, they have to work together with the humans or, you know, it'd be something like that.
00:40:00:00 - 00:40:34:12
Clark
And a lot of North American animated films, but they're just kind of there and there is interaction with them and the characters, but it's really and they're just kind of assumed, right? No question. They're not. It's not like, Oh, wow. It's like, but I think it's just maybe another interesting way to kind of articulate or work at a sideways way of articulating a child's relationship with your environment and and I don't know.
00:40:34:19 - 00:40:35:02
Clark
Well, there.
00:40:35:02 - 00:40:36:02
Cullen
Is there is actually somewhat.
00:40:36:02 - 00:40:37:07
Clark
Or how I see it. Yeah.
00:40:38:01 - 00:40:47:11
Cullen
There because I remember when we were talking about the Herzog, when we were talking with Herzog, and then we did I think the first Malick movie we did was The.
00:40:47:11 - 00:40:48:13
Clark
Thin Red Line. Yeah.
00:40:49:04 - 00:41:22:11
Cullen
And we discussed sort of in that episode how there was somewhat of a relationship between Malick and Herzog, and they know each other in real life. And there there's a lot of similarities. And there's also, I don't know to what degree they know each other, but Malick and Miyazaki are very, you know, in a lot of ways similar filmmakers in that there's there's this element of, of nature kind of superseding like everything and but not divorced from from humanity that like humanity is a part of that nature.
00:41:23:09 - 00:41:54:16
Cullen
And I see that a lot. I know Miyazaki is really, really into environmentalism. And this is, as you know, Japan, Japan is a very environmentally conscious country, just period. You know, a lot of there's a lot of environmentalism there. And so I think it's just interesting how, yeah, that it's like you said, it's not that these the they're the the Totoro is the spirits, the soot gremlins that are in the house are as much a part of the landscape as the trees and as the rivers and all that.
00:41:54:16 - 00:42:26:13
Cullen
And so I think that that's, that's yeah. A really interesting way to look at it as that those things. Yeah. They, they affect the person you grow from from interaction with those things much more than from defiance or overcoming or something like that of those things. And I think that that's true of real life. I think that as a child you're you're much more influenced by the passive elements of life than you are by like, I think the the precedents that and I'm sure that it's not just Western culture that puts a precedence on this.
00:42:26:13 - 00:42:43:17
Cullen
But yeah, you know, having grown up in in Canada, they definitely had this that the precedent is always put on like the big life lessons that you learn and like that, like, well, that's what shapes you is the hard times and the, you know, the big break up or the, the, you know, losing a family member for the first time, that's what's going to shape you.
00:42:43:17 - 00:43:11:00
Cullen
But I've I've found, at least for me and I'm sure this is true for a lot of people that what shaped me as a person more so was the passive everyday elements that just the where did I grow up? How are those things kind of like diffuse into me. Yeah, much more than the things that in my brain I could compartmentalize and be like, Well, what did I learn when, you know, I was rejected for the first time or whatever, but that and I think that that this movie really touches touches into that.
00:43:11:16 - 00:43:13:06
Clark
Yeah. Yeah. Well let's talk about.
00:43:13:16 - 00:43:14:08
Cullen
We get into the maybe the.
00:43:14:12 - 00:43:37:10
Clark
Let's get a little bit yeah let's just touch base on some of these things because there's definitely some interesting technical topics to discuss with the with this film. So, I mean, you know, one of the things that, you know, I think is immediately obvious when you're when you're looking at an animated film is that, you know, usually you and I will talk about, you know, the cinematography.
00:43:37:10 - 00:44:02:19
Clark
We'll talk about, you know, get get into some of that technically the cinematography. I mean, there's definitely a cinematographer or director of photography on an animated film. And, you know, there a camera was actually used to make this, but a cinematography is a totally different I'm imagining is a is a pretty different experience to be a cinematographer on a film like this versus the live action film that's like, definitely got me curious.
00:44:02:19 - 00:44:12:03
Clark
I don't know a ton about it, but you had kind of I think you had some technical aspects you wanted to discuss that give this film its unique look.
00:44:12:16 - 00:44:41:22
Cullen
Yeah, So, so there is and again this is something that I am am not educated on to like add nearly the degree of that that either of us are sort of live action stuff. So I could be wrong. But my so one thing you notice that that I notice in a lot of Miyazaki's films and Totoro as well is that there is, there's a choppiness to the animation and I think that it's actually a really pleasing style that like, you know, there's not a lot of motion blur in.
00:44:41:22 - 00:44:42:02
Clark
This.
00:44:43:03 - 00:45:24:10
Cullen
Movie. Erm it's quite and even just like the way that they talk, you know, their mouth is open then it's closed and it's open, that's close. There's not really like a, a, a transition between those two elements or those two frames of, of film. Right. They are. And I think the reason for that is so in, in Western animation in like whether it's Bugs Bunny, Hanna-Barbera, the Disney movies that there is an there's a job called twinning which is done by the tweeters Funny word but it stands for in-between or like between and what that is is that you would have the kind of animators that the talented visual artists that were, that were drawing
00:45:24:10 - 00:45:52:19
Cullen
the frames and the characters wouldn't animate every frame. They would maybe animate like, let's say like one, like if there's 24 frames in a second, you would animate frame one, then maybe frame 12, then maybe frame 24. And you had these people who were called tweeters who would who weren't visually, you know, artistically talented in that way. They would literally just do really, really, really crude drawings of what that movement was.
00:45:52:19 - 00:46:11:07
Cullen
And it would be really, really low, low fi. And that's one of the reasons that if you watch an old Disney movie, if you watch Bugs Bunny, even if you watch like The Simpsons, when The Simpsons were hand-drawn, you pause on a frame of someone moving their head or someone running or something like that. If you just pause in that frame, you know, your brain doesn't notice when it's moving at 24 frames a second.
00:46:11:07 - 00:46:31:06
Cullen
But if you pause on that frame, you'll see that there's like sometimes like an eye is like in the cheek and then it's like because it's just kind of getting the feeling of the movement because of course, you can't actually get motion blur with animation, hand-drawn frame by frame imagination. You have to simulate that motion blur, right? So they would get these people to tween the animation.
00:46:31:06 - 00:46:48:06
Cullen
I think you can probably look up bad tweeting on like Google and see Yeah we can see some some examples. Yeah but it doesn't seem like and I could be wrong maybe they just used more talented artists to do the demeaning and these or just.
00:46:48:06 - 00:46:49:02
Clark
Better time or.
00:46:49:06 - 00:47:07:14
Cullen
Greater. Yeah but it doesn't seem like that was a it seems more like to me that that the artist who is drawing the character is actually drawing each individual frame of the character, which means that, you know, and you brought this this up in a discussion before but that that oftentimes it seems like, you know, maybe only 12 of the 24 frames are animated.
00:47:08:08 - 00:47:26:23
Cullen
And that's sort of why there's that choppiness and that you can kind of see, you know, again, when a mouth is opening, that it's just when someone is talking, it's just open, closed, open, closed. And it's not to say that that's a bad style. I actually really like it. And I think that it lends a really neat quality to the feel of, you know, the art.
00:47:26:23 - 00:47:34:23
Cullen
But I just think that that's that's one thing that I noticed in terms of the you know, that's probably the limit to my technical, you know, ramblings on this film.
00:47:35:00 - 00:47:36:07
Clark
Yeah They don't talk about.
00:47:36:07 - 00:47:37:12
Cullen
Hardly anything else about.
00:47:37:12 - 00:48:02:10
Clark
Yeah, we can certainly, I mean talk from kind of a layperson, audience person, you know, some of the things that really stood out to me. I mean, I think it's clearly it's animated with great care. The characters are hand-drawn and we talked about how they're so expressive and clearly animated with great care and a lot of attention to detail.
00:48:02:15 - 00:48:33:03
Clark
The backgrounds I think are watercolor. And and I especially noticed the really beautiful skies. But it's just yeah, it's extremely pleasing. Um, but the characters are I mean, you talked about how expressive the characters were, and I think it is really, you know, lends itself to this film. I think, you know, big reason why it has such an emotional connection and why you were talking about, Wow, so amazing.
00:48:33:03 - 00:48:59:13
Clark
I empathize with this, you know, four year old character. Um, but I think that's such a big part of it is that they are drawn so expressively and not just facial animation. And sometimes the facial animations aren't even really where you're getting a lot of the emotion. Kind of like you said, you know, it's the talking is like, you know, but it's but it's in all of this body language and body movement and every little detail is really drawn out.
00:48:59:19 - 00:49:21:15
Cullen
And you get that from the opening credits when you see may kind of marching across the like that, that the character is so expressive with the way they move. And that's like a really, really simplistic drawing of Mae as she marches across the opening credits. Yeah, yeah. And I think that the the other thing too is just that Miyazaki's direction, you know, the way that he uses the, you know, so to say camera.
00:49:22:04 - 00:49:42:00
Cullen
Yeah. That there's a lot of stillness like there's a lot of just kind of observational cameras just again, the one scene that that comes to mind is when Mae sees that when she first finds the Totoro is running around the garden and they go under the house, and then she kind of goes over to the like little hole in the bottom is kind of crouched down beside the hole waiting for them to come out again.
00:49:42:04 - 00:50:03:18
Cullen
And they all sneak by behind her. And the but the camera before they sneak by behind her is still on her for like 10 seconds, like it's like a really long, drawn out shot of just her sitting there looking at the thing. But it just again, is this feeling of just like while she's waiting, we're waiting and and, you know, Miyazaki seems to really like to frame far.
00:50:03:18 - 00:50:23:02
Cullen
There's not a ton of like slight detail in terms of like, you don't really get, you know, some animators. You'll notice that like, it's all about, you know, the they'll always cut to a close up if there's food and it'll be this beautiful drawing of food and all the textures and you'll see you know someone, you know there's, there's texture and there's, there's detail.
00:50:23:18 - 00:50:26:06
Cullen
This kind of like high resolution element.
00:50:26:06 - 00:50:28:17
Clark
Yeah. Like these inserts, like these really? Yeah.
00:50:29:02 - 00:50:50:22
Cullen
Miyazaki doesn't seem to like he almost lets your mind fill in those details. And a lot of instances that. That, you know, it's often like a lot of wide shots, a lot of extreme long shots of characters just kind of in the spaces. And, you know, if you look at the details of the things that are drawn, oftentimes it's not all that detailed, and yet your brain fills those things in.
00:50:51:00 - 00:50:54:12
Cullen
And I think that's kind of an interesting element to to the movie as well.
00:50:55:01 - 00:51:11:13
Clark
Yeah, I mean, the backgrounds does watercolors. I mean, those are God tastic. Yeah, there's and you're right, I think there's especially if you if you compare them to modern, you know, CGI animated films, Pixar films, you know, the level of detail, just literal detail is not I.
00:51:11:13 - 00:51:14:15
Cullen
Think I think Miyazaki does a lot of the watercolors himself. Oh.
00:51:15:00 - 00:51:43:04
Clark
That would be. Yeah. I mean, that's I, I, it sounds reasonable. I don't know myself, but, but, but it's, it's not the detail that makes them so expressive. I mean, I think, you know, when you look at composition, color, how space is used, I mean, there's some really beautifully cinematic moments here where, you know, all of the techniques that a person would use to create beautiful frame in a live action film.
00:51:43:04 - 00:52:05:07
Clark
I you know, I just some of them, when there's there are many but I especially like when they're waiting at the bus stop when she's got the umbrella there's just really beautiful light And that's what I think makes the sky is so beautiful in some of these, is that it's that quote unquote lighting. I feel weird saying this because it's not like it's I mean, that's how it's drawn.
00:52:05:07 - 00:52:18:12
Clark
It's the way that color is used. And the the actual drawings are paintings by I keep wanting to say it's like how light is used. Yeah. Like, you know, I.
00:52:18:12 - 00:52:25:01
Cullen
Mean, it is. It is. I mean, a lot of cinematographers describe their work as like, you know, you're painting with light, right?
00:52:25:01 - 00:52:44:00
Clark
But that right And it is but that's it's and I think that's that's kind of shows you how effective it is that it's like I'm so compelled to call it light when of course, well, this is how it was drawn. Painted. Yeah. This is how, you know, they they created that light that it's not real light. They've actually mimicked light in the way that it was drawn and painted.
00:52:44:00 - 00:52:51:10
Clark
But. But extremely effective. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, we haven't touched on music but. Oh, I.
00:52:51:10 - 00:52:52:22
Cullen
Love yeah, I love the soundtrack.
00:52:52:22 - 00:53:07:23
Clark
I think it's, it's, it's got this really cool kind of interesting combo of like eighties kind of experimental synthesizer. Yeah. I mean, I almost got, like, I told you, I almost got, like, a Tangerine Dream vibe for some of it.
00:53:07:23 - 00:53:10:15
Cullen
Just, I mean, I've got the soundtrack downloaded on my phone.
00:53:10:19 - 00:53:11:05
Clark
Yeah.
00:53:11:08 - 00:53:19:15
Cullen
Like there's this one particular track on it called A Haunted House that's like, the best. I don't even like club music, but it's like the best rap in the world.
00:53:19:18 - 00:53:21:19
Clark
Are you serious? Back and listen.
00:53:21:19 - 00:53:25:14
Cullen
Yeah, but then there's the other ones that, like, it's one. They're running around the house right at the beginning and with the.
00:53:25:15 - 00:53:28:10
Clark
With the little girl demos.
00:53:28:11 - 00:53:50:03
Cullen
Yeah. Yeah. And then there's the other the cat bass theme song that's like, kind of a little bit funnier and more whimsical is great. I think the two songs are a lot of fun, too. The opening and closing songs are fun and. And yeah, so it's Jo Jo hee hee hee hisashi Hisashi, I think is how you pronounce it.
00:53:50:03 - 00:53:50:09
Cullen
I'm so.
00:53:50:09 - 00:53:51:17
Clark
Glad that I'm not the only one that.
00:53:52:01 - 00:53:56:22
Cullen
And, um. Yeah, I just. I just don't want to get it wrong. I No, I did.
00:53:56:22 - 00:53:58:16
Clark
I apologize. I understand. Yeah.
00:53:59:15 - 00:54:11:12
Cullen
And I think the he's done, like, a lot of the Miyazaki movies. I think Ponyo, his Ponyo score is great. He's always, like, very interesting, but he does exactly that is he he often will, like, pull from inspirations. Some other sources. I know Philip Glass was a big, you know.
00:54:11:17 - 00:54:31:05
Clark
So he's done video games, too. I don't know if he's scored and I've played a little bit off of one of them and it's kind of on my list to continue. But yeah, he's actually scored a couple of video games too, which are interesting, which are I mean, I got I'll probably at Nino Cooney. There's a couple of them.
00:54:31:05 - 00:54:31:18
Cullen
Okay.
00:54:31:18 - 00:54:51:18
Clark
Do games which are actually in their own right they're really beautiful and I can almost even see how they could be connected to films like this for sure, visually and thematically. But I'm just learning that right now. I didn't realize he had also scored those. Very interesting. I could see how that would be connected.
00:54:52:12 - 00:54:54:17
Cullen
But yeah, soundtrack by and large. Great.
00:54:54:22 - 00:55:02:02
Clark
Yeah. Yeah. I have to go back and check that out separate from the film, just so that I can kind of focus just on that music alone.
00:55:02:09 - 00:55:19:09
Cullen
And then the, the, so the performances. So I've seen, Oh yeah, the Japanese version, which I think the performances are great in that. And I also think that this is a, a, you know, a rare occasion where the Disney English dub, which is the Fanning Sisters and that's why.
00:55:19:09 - 00:55:19:19
Clark
We watch.
00:55:19:19 - 00:55:22:17
Cullen
And most the older ones name Elle is the younger one.
00:55:23:03 - 00:55:23:17
Clark
Dakota.
00:55:24:01 - 00:55:40:13
Cullen
Dakota Fanning Yeah that they play the Mae and such Satsuki and they do like a phenomenal job Yeah they really do a good think that you know I think that there's there's a really I it's.
00:55:40:14 - 00:56:05:16
Clark
Rare that them being sisters I think in real life probably totally helps. Yeah and I just want to preface you know I was honestly I was scared like when we saw I always I mean almost without fail, you know, if I ever watch a film, especially if it's the first time I've ever watched it, I absolutely, positively want to see that film in its native language, without question.
00:56:05:16 - 00:56:28:05
Clark
I do not want to watch a dub. So I was hesitant when I asked you. I said, Hey, which version of the film, are we going to, you know, discuss? Because I almost do feel like they're different versions. I almost do feel like you know, the Japanese version of this film and the English version of this film are almost different versions.
00:56:28:05 - 00:56:29:23
Clark
It's not the same film, but with.
00:56:30:02 - 00:56:33:15
Cullen
Yeah, I mean, you're getting different artists doing their different interpretations and characters.
00:56:33:15 - 00:56:36:12
Clark
Right? And so I was hesitant. I was like, Oh, okay, okay.
00:56:37:01 - 00:56:46:03
Cullen
Just I guess for as a, as a, as a disclaimer, the reason why we did the English version was because we weren't sure that HBO would have the the Japanese version.
00:56:46:03 - 00:56:56:13
Clark
So and it wasn't right know until I actually sat down. Now, just for those of you who are interested, HBO actually does. You can choose which which version you would like to watch. But I mean, if you're.
00:56:56:13 - 00:56:58:05
Cullen
In Canada, they're all on Netflix.
00:56:58:05 - 00:57:15:01
Clark
So and we had also heard that this was a an accurate and and really well done version. And I think he had even read or maybe hadn't you heard that maybe Miyazaki actually had input or.
00:57:15:01 - 00:57:28:01
Cullen
Yeah, I know. I know. John Lasseter was the person who was put in charge of the the Disney kind of dub. And there's like, he went to Japan and was with Miyazaki for a lot of the process and things like that.
00:57:28:01 - 00:57:33:11
Clark
So yeah, so we did kind of feel a little more comfortable than we might normally feel.
00:57:33:20 - 00:57:59:16
Cullen
But yeah, I'd say watch it. And both Yeah, I think both for like again, I think that I was really the first time I watched it pleasantly surprised with how how good Manning sisters are, you know I don't think I expected that at all. And the Japanese voice actors who I'm not familiar with their names because of course they're not, you know, big actors here, but they they also do a really, really good job.
00:57:59:16 - 00:58:06:19
Cullen
And the one actor who plays Maid did return for the short film like 15 years later. So the Made in the Kitten bus.
00:58:06:20 - 00:58:18:08
Clark
Which is interesting, fun, but I think at all of the all of the performances are quite good. I mean, obviously Dakota and L.A. or Elle, is it l l.
00:58:18:09 - 00:58:19:22
Cullen
I think it's Elle. Yeah.
00:58:19:22 - 00:58:48:14
Clark
They they carry a substantial part of the film. But Tim Daly, who plays the father, I think does a really wonderful job. Yeah, I it's, you know, so by the time I kind of got into the film, like ten, 15 minutes, I'm like, okay, I don't feel so bad. It's like, But a lot of times, you know, the dub is and I actually it's interesting, you know, there was another English dub of this that was done, I think in 89 or so, like right after the film was released.
00:58:48:14 - 00:59:03:18
Clark
It's my understanding that it was done for like airline viewing or something, like it was done for Japan Airlines and oh, and then it was yeah, we think it was done originally, so that could play on Japan Airlines for International or for English speaking audiences. And then.
00:59:04:06 - 00:59:05:19
Cullen
To see Fox before.
00:59:05:19 - 00:59:30:23
Clark
Fox released that one. Yeah, that's the Yeah, that's the one that's the version that Fox released on home video. And so that was there for X number of years. And then I obviously, I guess the way that they did their deal the that the license for that or something ran out and and so then Disney picked it up and redid the dub is I guess that original English dub was not considered to be very it's.
00:59:30:23 - 00:59:31:19
Cullen
Not great Yeah.
00:59:31:19 - 01:00:05:03
Clark
It's not and I think they changed some small but important details I think in it a little bit trying to like Anglicized it I guess would be the term whereas this later version doesn't do much of that if any at all. So it was more literal in its in its translation. And so but yeah, I think the performances are really quite wonderful and I had no idea that the those sisters did that and, and they're pretty darn good actors.
01:00:05:03 - 01:00:12:01
Clark
Which one is in. There's a, there's a show that's on now was one of the I think it's Catherine the great is I don't know maybe it's the younger one and.
01:00:12:02 - 01:00:12:14
Cullen
It's the younger.
01:00:12:14 - 01:00:13:22
Clark
One. Yeah but an.
01:00:13:22 - 01:00:22:14
Cullen
Elle Fanning also or or I think it was Elle Fanning also played Coraline, which was I think that came out in 2007, which is a stop motion film.
01:00:22:18 - 01:00:22:20
Clark
And.
01:00:23:12 - 01:00:24:07
Cullen
Very good in that too.
01:00:24:07 - 01:00:43:19
Clark
So yeah, well I could see where there where their careers of, you know, have taken off because they're both seem to be quite talented And they did do a great job in this film too. Right on. Well can you think of as we covered. I think that much as we could add Yeah. Yeah. We got a little philosophical there for a moment, but.
01:00:43:19 - 01:00:44:11
Cullen
Existential.
01:00:44:11 - 01:00:58:14
Clark
Which I think is fun, existential, you know, and talking about, you know, but I. I appreciate you picking the film. I, I'm sure I would have seen it eventually at some point because like I said, my wife and I have kind of are running through these films.
01:00:58:14 - 01:01:02:16
Cullen
But did you did the amber joining for the watch this time?
01:01:02:16 - 01:01:23:22
Clark
No, no, she didn't. But I would but I'm going to suggest it to her, and I definitely would happily watch it again. So I'm sure that we will watch it in the not too distant future together. But but yeah, I really enjoyed it. It was a really fun, lighthearted hearted, nostalgic film that was that kind of just put a little smile in my heart.
01:01:23:22 - 01:01:32:01
Clark
So yeah, I that means next time that means for me, I'll have to pick like a really, you know, dark and dire, nihilistic.
01:01:32:01 - 01:01:32:13
Cullen
Sophie's.
01:01:32:13 - 01:01:49:17
Clark
Choice. Balance that out, you know, on the on the backside next time. But anyway, well, it's as always, man, it's been a blast. I always enjoy these conversations. I hope our listeners out there have enjoyed it as well. And yeah, until next time.
01:01:49:19 - 01:01:52:01
Cullen
Bye bye.