Clark
Hello, everyone, and welcome once again to the Soldiers of Cinema podcast. As always, I'm Clark Coffey. And with me, as always, is Mr. Cullen McFater. What's going on, Cullen?
00:00:21:23 - 00:00:30:17
Cullen
Hello. I'm, uh. I'm good. How are you? I heard you had a you had a little bit of a a crazy day, didn't you, down in in SoCal?
00:00:31:03 - 00:00:51:06
Clark
Well, I mean, I don't know if I would call it crazy, but it was just annoying. I had, you know. Does it rain here very often? We'll go, you know, like nine, ten months with no rain. And so, you know, all along, all the while, you're thinking there's no problems with my roof, everything's fine. And then when it does finally rain once, then your your roof proves you wrong.
00:00:51:06 - 00:01:16:14
Clark
And so and I had just a really minor, super minor leak that didn't hurt anything in the house, but I wanted to take care of it quick before it did hurt anything. So, yeah, I got to wake up bright and early this morning, forego my sleeping in a late on a Saturday, and I had to deal with contractors walking around on my roof and making a mess on my porch and and just generally running amuck, so.
00:01:16:23 - 00:01:41:09
Clark
Yeah, but other than that, you know, other than that, everything's okay. And I'm happy to to be recording our 62nd episode, which which is going to be a discussion of your pick, which I was pretty surprised about a bridge too far from 1977. Mm hmm. And apparently, this is like one of your favorite films from childhood, which.
00:01:41:10 - 00:01:45:18
Cullen
Yes. Yeah. This was a huge, huge movie for me when I was a kid.
00:01:46:01 - 00:02:05:06
Clark
Which I'm like, amazed by, man, because, I mean, I mean, this would even be old for me, right? I mean, I get it's like I was born in 76, so I would have been a year old. And I get there are a lot of seventies films that I grew up on because, of course, they were, you know, years later played on TV and films like Rocky and that kind of stuff were huge for me.
00:02:05:06 - 00:02:16:00
Clark
And but I'm surprised that a film from 77 would be on your list of big movies as a child. So tell me about that, dude.
00:02:16:01 - 00:02:18:10
Cullen
Yeah, I mean, I'll. I'll tell the story. Yeah.
00:02:18:18 - 00:02:19:22
Clark
Tell us the story.
00:02:21:05 - 00:02:28:07
Cullen
So I remember being and this is actually kind of funny because we did Butch Cassidy a while ago, I think it was, and.
00:02:28:07 - 00:02:29:08
Clark
That was a big thing.
00:02:29:08 - 00:02:37:04
Cullen
So it was yeah, that's like. That's like Butch Cassidy, my favorite movie of all time, probably in terms of just movies that I could watch endlessly.
00:02:37:06 - 00:02:37:17
Clark
Yeah.
00:02:38:22 - 00:02:42:13
Cullen
And so that was probably we probably did that episode about it over a year ago. Now at least.
00:02:43:01 - 00:02:45:07
Clark
Yeah. Wow. And then that long, huh?
00:02:45:11 - 00:03:07:18
Cullen
I remember. I have, like, this very distinct memory of I was probably only six years old. I think I was in grade one of walking into my dad's office, my kids, his home at home, his little home office, and on his chair. There was like, this pile of I think they were VHS. I don't think they were DVDs.
00:03:07:18 - 00:03:12:14
Cullen
I think they were VHS, But he'd just gone out and bought these these movies. And it was yeah, they'd.
00:03:12:14 - 00:03:15:04
Clark
Probably be VHS. I mean, if you're well.
00:03:15:10 - 00:03:15:15
Cullen
That would.
00:03:15:15 - 00:03:18:18
Clark
Have been this would have placed this place, this.
00:03:18:18 - 00:03:20:04
Cullen
23,000.
00:03:20:06 - 00:03:21:07
Clark
I could have a DVD.
00:03:21:07 - 00:03:37:06
Cullen
Yeah. And it would have been early in the kind of. Yeah. But I seem to remember they were VHS because I remember watching them in the basement and I don't think we had a DVD player down there at that early. Um, but I so I remember. And so in the top of the pile was Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.
00:03:37:19 - 00:03:45:12
Cullen
Mm hmm. The middle of the pile was the dirty Dozen. Oh. Which was another movie that I, you know, I enjoyed. I haven't seen that in ages, but.
00:03:45:12 - 00:03:49:15
Clark
I remember I saw that recently, actually, just a few months ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:03:49:16 - 00:03:56:06
Cullen
It's another World War two. Yeah, a little bit more silly than this. And and then on the bottom was a bridge too far.
00:03:56:17 - 00:04:00:09
Clark
Now that there had been like four VHS tapes, right. I mean yeah.
00:04:00:09 - 00:04:18:04
Cullen
It was a big I remember it was a big pilot. He had gone, I remember where he was, he probably got them at some local store or something. But I just remember like looking at them with my brother and I had no idea. I thought Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid was some kid's movie because I thought the Sundance Kid was actually a child.
00:04:18:07 - 00:04:19:13
Clark
Like. Like an actual child.
00:04:19:17 - 00:04:31:07
Cullen
Yeah. And so I was like, I don't really want to watch that. And I was always like, ever since, you know, probably since I was born, I had was obsessed with the Second World War, like it was favorite, always my favorite era of, of history.
00:04:31:07 - 00:04:32:02
Clark
And, yeah.
00:04:32:13 - 00:04:43:04
Cullen
You know, I played every World War two video game I could get my hands on as a kid. I was always out and, you know, I lived quite close to like a big forest and was always out there with my friends, you know.
00:04:43:04 - 00:04:43:16
Clark
With Note.
00:04:43:17 - 00:04:44:03
Cullen
Army.
00:04:44:03 - 00:04:45:14
Clark
To digress just for a second.
00:04:45:14 - 00:04:46:14
Cullen
Yeah, sure. Yeah. Do you.
00:04:46:14 - 00:04:59:07
Clark
Remember? So I because I feel like this would have been about that era. So speaking of like World War Two video games, what was the one? Was it like Call of Duty or something where they replicated the Saving Private Ryan.
00:04:59:07 - 00:05:18:02
Cullen
Yeah, so I was actually going to mention that, Yeah. Oh yeah. Medal of Honor was a franchise that after Saving Private Ryan Spielberg created, like he actually developed this video game. Of course. Know. Oh, really? I actually code it but he was the lead creative on I had no idea on that and those were my again my favorite games as a kid.
00:05:18:12 - 00:05:43:06
Cullen
What's interesting about Medal of Honor is that so yeah, it opens the opening of like my favorite one was Medal of Honor Frontline, which I had, I think on Gamecube, and that the opening of that is like a shot for shot basically of Saving Private Ryan, except of course you're playing it, but then it actually Medal of Honor goes into you go into the Netherlands and like one of the the levels of the game is called several bridges too far.
00:05:43:06 - 00:06:02:13
Cullen
And it's like all of this stuff that's that's all about Operation Market Garden and you're fighting in the exact locations from this movie and there's a ton of references to the movie. So that was another way that every just in and out this movie was in my childhood, like I remember watching it and just loving it, which again, this is a, you know, a three hour movie.
00:06:02:22 - 00:06:22:11
Cullen
And I used to force all of my friends at every sleepover to watch it, and they all liked it, too. Somehow. And I would, you know, again, like the theme song, I would have the theme song playing constantly and used it in all of my movies. And that's like I always, you know, I was just so into the Second World War.
00:06:22:18 - 00:06:26:02
Cullen
I still am like I still am deeply fascinated by studying that.
00:06:26:03 - 00:06:52:12
Clark
Yeah. Yeah, I am too. Yeah, I am, too. And I, you know, just earlier this year, my wife and I spent three weeks in France and she very generously and graciously allowed me to totally indulge my World War two, like fantasy of being at the Normandy beaches. And so I spent three or four days you just like, gave me two to absorb all I could in France, World War two related before dawn to do it.
00:06:52:12 - 00:06:54:12
Cullen
And that's awesome. Oh, sorry. Go ahead.
00:06:54:21 - 00:07:12:06
Clark
I was just going to say so you know, I mean, I was so when I was watching it, you know, for the first time ever, I'd never seen it before. And watching it last night in preparation for this. And, you know, in some ways, I could see like how this film would appeal to a young kid. Right. Especially to a young boy.
00:07:12:06 - 00:07:33:14
Clark
It's like there's some huge set pieces. And I mean, you know, and we'll get into more of this later. But there's a lot of action. And, you know, I could totally see myself, you know, and it's well done. I could totally see myself be, you know, loving that. Right. There's a lot of real planes and tanks and soldiers and battles and explosions.
00:07:33:14 - 00:07:57:09
Clark
And I'm like, I totally could get it, but I am still kind of surprised that because there's a lot of the film where that's not what's going on. We have we follow a large number of number of characters. You know, there's a lot of it's a huge ensemble cast and there's a lot of scenes that I would be surprised that a young kid would would find interesting.
00:07:57:18 - 00:08:11:08
Clark
So I'm kind of curious, like if you could maybe try to kind of like, like I get that you love World War Two and I totally get the action stuff, but what do you think it was about this film that really stuck out to you? Like.
00:08:12:05 - 00:08:36:04
Cullen
Yeah, that's a good question. I think. I think it's kind of two things. One, is that true to life? The movie primarily takes place on like bright sunny days in just these meadows and like these those kind of European hedgerows and things like that. And that was somewhere that, you know, I didn't grow up in the countryside, but where I grew up, there was a lot of nature and things like that.
00:08:36:04 - 00:08:56:15
Cullen
And again, meadows and marshes and stuff like that. So I think just the setting of the film reminded me a lot of where I grew up. And so it just kind of seemed accessible from like an imagination standpoint that like, again, me and my friends could watch this, get some like toy guns and go out and recreate, you know, the moments and things like that.
00:08:56:23 - 00:09:01:18
Cullen
Yeah. And I think it's also just in scale is very grand, you know, It's all like.
00:09:01:22 - 00:09:02:11
Clark
It is.
00:09:02:11 - 00:09:29:13
Cullen
Real planes. These are real, you know, people jumping out of planes and yeah, the Spitfires are real, the tanks are real, you know? So it feels, I think, very much like any you know, as a kid, you just watch these things and the first thing you want to do is go build like a cardboard city and put a camera down beside it and, you know, drive a toy tank through it and make it look like the city is coming down.
00:09:29:13 - 00:10:02:05
Cullen
So, yeah, there's this, that kind of air. And then sort of a more personal connection, I suppose, is that my my great uncle, my Nana's brother, he fought in D-Day and like landed on, on June 6th and all that in Normandy. And then he was the Canadian forces were kind of tasked with primarily liberating the Netherlands. And so they weren't actually involved in market garden because Market Garden was kind of a separate task with the Canadians were more near the coast.
00:10:02:12 - 00:10:21:15
Cullen
The battle of the shell was a big battle that they were involved in. And so he was fighting in the Netherlands pretty much at the time that this movie would be taking place again, not at Market Garden. So I think it was just also this like hearing his stories as a kid and, you know, talking to him and my nana and kind of understand.
00:10:21:15 - 00:10:22:08
Clark
Made it real.
00:10:22:14 - 00:10:43:09
Cullen
Yeah, exactly. And so there was this really. Whereas I see something you know, Saving Private Ryan was also a big movie when I was a kid. But I think that that to me was a little bit it was Saving Private Ryan is a lot smaller in scale in terms of just that. It's about like kind of one group of guys going through the countryside and and it's it's more dramatic.
00:10:43:09 - 00:11:05:15
Cullen
It's less sort of exciting in like in a fun movie way then then this is Yeah. So I think that that was the thing is that there's just these this movie I, I was actually relatively concerned to rewatch this because it has been at least a decade since I've seen it probably o over 15 years since I've seen it.
00:11:05:15 - 00:11:07:14
Cullen
Oh wow. Okay. And so.
00:11:07:22 - 00:11:11:08
Clark
So how did it how did you find the film now then, Like as in so that's.
00:11:11:08 - 00:11:25:22
Cullen
What I mean. So I remember like I loved it as a kid and I, and when I suggested it, I think the reason I suggested it was just because I was so curious to rewatch it. And but I kind of again, I was nervous. I was like going into it and it's like, what if it's bad? You know, what if.
00:11:26:12 - 00:11:26:23
Clark
Yeah, yeah.
00:11:26:23 - 00:11:54:10
Cullen
Yeah. You know, it wasn't that critically successful. And yeah, it's not a very popular movie. There's, there's definitely, it's overshadowed by a lot of other war movies. But I was, I was really, really pleasantly surprised at how much I enjoyed it and how like actually genuinely good in terms of just actual quality. Yeah, I found it like I was I was I expected, if anything, to more like it just because of the nostalgia.
00:11:54:10 - 00:11:55:12
Cullen
Yeah but.
00:11:55:12 - 00:11:57:01
Clark
But you actually you feel like.
00:11:57:01 - 00:12:11:04
Cullen
You called out the set pieces, the performances, you know there's things that are again a little bit sillier about it, like the fact that every single person you see is some huge name from the seventies. You name an actor that was in the seventies and around.
00:12:11:04 - 00:12:12:03
Clark
It's kind of crazy.
00:12:12:03 - 00:12:25:01
Cullen
They're in this, you know, and you think that you've seen them all like it's like James Caan, Anthony Hopkins, Michael Caine, you know, Laurence Olivier. And you just go down the list and then suddenly, like three quarters of the movie, Robert Redford shows up and you're.
00:12:25:01 - 00:12:27:02
Clark
Like, I know it was he. And you're just like, What?
00:12:27:17 - 00:12:56:00
Cullen
So yeah, it's and Sean Connery, I mean, it's it's like and I was a big jump on Olivier. Yeah, Yeah. So I think that was, I think it was just so huge in scale that it just kind of like sucked me in and I actually not to digress too much, but I went when I was in the Netherlands, I made a very big point of visiting Arnhem and seeing the bridge and all that, and so none of this movie's actually shot in Arnhem just because Arnhem was flattened during the war.
00:12:56:00 - 00:13:15:02
Cullen
So it's all primarily more modern architecture than it would be. So they shot in nearby towns that actually look very, very stunningly similar to Arnhem. You know, if I didn't know that they didn't shoot it there, I would have thought they did. Yeah, but I yeah. And then I biked from Arnhem to Easter Beach, which is where the British headquarters were during the battle, that little house.
00:13:15:23 - 00:13:31:05
Cullen
And it's funny because every time I've met a Dutch person and even just on the trip that I did this summer when I went around the world and, you know, I met a fair amount of people from the Netherlands and every time I met them and they sort of said, Oh, you've been to the Netherlands, like, where have you been?
00:13:31:05 - 00:13:55:09
Cullen
And I would mention Arnhem and everyone of them would be like, Why the hell did you at Arnhem? It would be like, you know, going to New York and then taking an hour bus ride to like, you know, Trenton, New Jersey, or not Albuquerque, Albany or something, right. Yeah, Yeah. So but it's, it's a beautiful place. I mean, if you ever are in the Netherlands, I highly recommend going not just for the history, but it's also a really, really beautiful part of the site.
00:13:56:09 - 00:14:18:00
Cullen
But now it's so like really in terms of just the infusion of, of like my childhood, this movie was, was massive. Even just hearing the theme song again was like, This takes you back. Yeah, it was awesome. And it's such a fantastic theme song. And I mean, let's jump in, I guess, to like the more specific. Sure. Elements.
00:14:18:00 - 00:14:23:01
Cullen
Unless unless you I mean, what was your I mean, I guess before we do that, what was your take when you saw it and what do you think?
00:14:23:11 - 00:14:49:12
Clark
Yeah, sure. So, so first time I'd ever seen it, I honestly I don't even actually recall ever having even heard of the film. Shockingly, it and so never had seen it. So I checked it on checked it out on Blu ray and watched it last night. And I mean the scope is hard to not be impressed by. I mean, things that you've already discussed here.
00:14:49:12 - 00:15:17:13
Clark
You know, there are the number of actors that are in this film is just like mind boggling. I mean, it's it's, you know, literally just a who's who of major actors in the seventies the scope of the of the film you've got this particular operation being I mean how many different storylines or angles as it were are there in this film like yeah well I guess yeah.
00:15:18:02 - 00:15:27:02
Clark
I mean you've got this entire British cast, this entire American cast, you've got this entire German cast, Dutch cast. You've got.
00:15:27:07 - 00:15:28:22
Cullen
Gene Hackman playing a prophet.
00:15:28:22 - 00:15:29:19
Clark
Played a Polish.
00:15:29:19 - 00:15:31:03
Cullen
Character who sounds tough.
00:15:32:09 - 00:15:56:05
Clark
With this accent that just, you know it to do to. I just want to pause, though, for a second when sometimes it's just these funny things that stand out to you in the film and I'll get back to discussing it proper. But when Gene Hackman pops on and I have no idea he's going to be playing a Polish character, matter of fact, until it was mentioned explicitly in the film, I didn't know what he was doing with his voice.
00:15:56:11 - 00:15:56:19
Clark
Okay.
00:15:57:07 - 00:15:58:17
Cullen
If he was trying to do British or something.
00:15:58:17 - 00:16:33:07
Clark
I had no idea. I had no idea. I had no idea until they actually, like literally said, you know, called him Polish in the film but but it to me, I love these moments because I look at Gene Hackman, who clearly is a wonderful actor, has had a fantastic career. And as someone who aspired to be an actor myself, somebody who really prizes good acting and to see somebody so amazing is Hackman struggle.
00:16:33:14 - 00:16:34:13
Clark
So now.
00:16:34:14 - 00:16:34:22
Cullen
My guy.
00:16:34:22 - 00:16:40:11
Clark
With an accent makes me feel so much better. I think. You think.
00:16:40:16 - 00:16:42:00
Cullen
It's hilarious. It's really.
00:16:42:00 - 00:17:05:14
Clark
It's hilarious. But because I've got to tell you, I've got to tell you, of all the nightmares that I have, all of it like anxious scenarios that might have existed when I was auditioning actively as an actor, the absolute worst for me would be this. I you know, I would get an audition and I'd be thrilled. Right? Because it's I mean, it's rare to even get asked to audition for something.
00:17:05:14 - 00:17:31:15
Clark
Right? So the first wave of emotion would be, Oh my gosh, I can't believe I you know, I got an audition and then I would get the sides or I'd get the breakdown whatever information I, you know, available for that particular audition. And the instant I would find out it required an accent. I would just like go from joy of having gotten the audition to like, despair, knowing that I couldn't pull off a reasonable accent.
00:17:31:23 - 00:17:52:06
Clark
Literally, the first role I ever booked was a stage role, and I had to have a Spanish accent and I can't roll my ass. So anyway, it's personal to me. It's personal. That's the point. So. So watching Jean do this, I just I felt a nice, like, wave of, like, empathy washed over me.
00:17:52:10 - 00:17:53:20
Cullen
Affirmation. Yeah. Just.
00:17:53:20 - 00:18:16:18
Clark
Yeah, Yeah. And validation. Okay, But back to the film. So, yeah, I mean, you're just overwhelmed with the scope of it. I mean, I thought it was beautifully shot. Obviously it's well acted. I thought it was this is not or it's been a while since I've kind of read up on my World War Two history. So I kind of had to re acclimate to the, you know, what's going on, what was market garden, what were they doing and why.
00:18:16:18 - 00:18:40:20
Clark
But I think the you know, the film does a really good job of of including everything from these huge set pieces. I mean I like the the the paratroopers is just like it's literally like a hundred or a couple of hundred people actually jumping out of C 47. The scope of that's crazy. You know, all of the World War two accurate hardware is pretty amazing.
00:18:41:16 - 00:18:46:09
Clark
Although I do have to say, I think there were supposed to be some P 40 sevens in that that were clearly not.
00:18:47:00 - 00:18:49:15
Cullen
Yeah, they were repainted. I think they were finish.
00:18:50:08 - 00:18:50:20
Clark
Yeah.
00:18:51:03 - 00:18:54:04
Cullen
Prop planes are something that they use for training and they just repainted them.
00:18:54:06 - 00:19:32:08
Clark
And most people probably would never notice that. But the Spitfires looked real but the P40 sevens were definitely not. But beside the point who cares? But you know everything from that to these these moments, you know, where soldiers at different times have to commandeer civilians homes and to see how that affects the civilians, the homes that are taken out from under them, the you know, the the just random way some people are killed and kind of the randomness of death and the surreal ness of war and the the bureaucracy that kind of is overwhelming behind a lot of this.
00:19:32:08 - 00:19:48:18
Clark
I think they did a good job of incorporating all of that. So there was the scope was huge from a storytelling perspective, from a literal perspective was pretty impressive. I mean, it's a three hour long film. I do have to admit there were a couple of moments where I kind of had to steer my focus back onto it.
00:19:48:18 - 00:19:57:09
Clark
You know, I started my mind started to wonder a little bit. But to be fair, I didn't realize it was going to be 3 hours long. And I started watching it at like 10 p.m..
00:19:58:00 - 00:19:58:16
Cullen
Yes. Yeah.
00:19:58:22 - 00:20:08:20
Clark
So by the time I was through with the film, I was like, you know, getting a little drowsy. But, but overall, in a nutshell, I really enjoyed it. I'm glad that I watched it.
00:20:09:07 - 00:20:18:14
Cullen
MM No, I think, I think it does a really good job of like it's not a movie that is upfront with Gore.
00:20:19:09 - 00:20:20:08
Clark
Or that gory.
00:20:20:08 - 00:20:48:18
Cullen
Horrific kind of, you know, bloodshed of war. But it's, it's almost that almost works in its favor because again, it kind of shows this like strange matter of fact is that war probably really is like and it's intensely critical of like bureaucracy, like the bureaucracy of these these battles where, you know, it's like we've got to cross this bridge, but we've got to wait for this traffic jam to clear up on the, you know, the one road that we've commandeered so the boats can get here.
00:20:48:18 - 00:21:08:22
Cullen
And then but those boats can't get across until we build this other bridge that was destroyed in those supplies are coming from there. And it doesn't really good job of like this logistical nightmare that was probably quite accurate to, you know, how it really was. And then again, like you said, that, you know, somebody will be just in in a house and a stray bullet will will take them out.
00:21:08:22 - 00:21:13:14
Cullen
And there's not really much attention called to it. It's just kind of like, okay.
00:21:13:14 - 00:21:14:14
Clark
As a matter of fact.
00:21:14:14 - 00:21:30:08
Cullen
Yeah. And so it's really I think it's really fascinating in that way because when when I chose the movie, one of the things that you asked me was, you know, is it like an antiwar film? I think most you know, both most war films are taken from an angle of of like being critical of a lot of things about war.
00:21:31:09 - 00:21:42:07
Cullen
But I think I think my answer was, was that it's kind of almost hidden in a way like it's not explicitly antiwar in like a again, a horrific, you know, Saving Private Ryan, people's arms being blown off and.
00:21:42:22 - 00:21:44:20
Clark
It's not like just the war is hell.
00:21:45:12 - 00:22:19:02
Cullen
Yeah. It's more just critical of just this this kind of again, this like monotony of of the the business of like running a war, which is really fascinating because that's not something that a lot of other war movies really get into at all. And then even again, just this, this idea that like you get to this very picturesque Dutch village at the beginning and how the for the first, you know, maybe 2 hours, the battle is very much kind of small scale like they get into the city and they're kind of laughing is they're in the wrong camouflage.
00:22:19:02 - 00:22:40:09
Cullen
And there's a few skirmishes on the bridge. But, you know, and then suddenly when the Germans actually launch a counter offensive, it's like this town is destroyed. And all these civilians that we've gotten to know through the movie are who aren't really necessarily directly related to anything that's going on with the soldiers. But you just see that like, you know, they're dying and they're building roadblocks out of the bodies.
00:22:40:09 - 00:22:41:10
Cullen
And, you know.
00:22:41:14 - 00:23:04:00
Clark
I mean, one of the things that yeah, I mean, I, I want to jump in because your, you know, you've kind of sparked reminded me of something, you know, a few things that really stood out, you know. So the film is I mean, there's it's almost like you could say, these vignettes that are kind of connected, you know, because they're because we're jumping back and forth, you know, from so many different perspectives and so many different angles.
00:23:04:15 - 00:23:25:06
Clark
And there's such a large cast. I almost feel like it's a series of the vignettes. And in a little bit of a way. But, you know, some things that really stand out, I mean, like like the whole that is like commandeered, you know, the Dutch home that's like right at the like the mouth of the bridge or whatever, you know, looking at one side of the bridge.
00:23:25:06 - 00:24:04:09
Clark
And and we it's almost like they use that home and it's continual degradation like it's it's physical degradation as it's attacked and it's as it, you know, is being hit and catches fire. And, you know, so you see like this it's like an interesting barometer of the degradation of the entire area and then the couple that lives in it and how they're like, you know, kind of losing their minds, being surrounded by all this violence and having their home taken away from them to the point where, you know, the woman kind of like loses her mind, the civilian woman, and goes outside to like hail a taxi when the strike.
00:24:04:18 - 00:24:20:07
Clark
Not only is there no taxi, I mean, the town is completely destroyed. Is destroyed, and she's shot, you know. Yeah. Just, you know, or I thought it was really touching in the beginning. They set up that, you know, that civilian family with that young boy.
00:24:20:21 - 00:24:23:15
Cullen
That are kind of like a they're acting in the resistance. Yeah.
00:24:23:17 - 00:24:42:02
Clark
And a little bit of a sense that he, you know, is kind of going out on his bicycle and, you know, telling the German guard that he's going to see his girlfriend when he's actually kind of taking notes of, you know, the insignias on the material and kind of taking note of who's there and whatnot and and how many German soldiers are there.
00:24:42:02 - 00:25:04:03
Clark
And he kind of comes back to report to his father and how a little bit into the film he's killed. Yeah. And you know, and it's it's so matter of fact, you know and I really appreciate how it's not this like like in so many movies you can have like this kid zoom in on, you know, you have this, like, close up shot and he'd be, like, slowly dying in his father's arms and we'd have this, like, music swell.
00:25:04:03 - 00:25:22:08
Clark
And you know what I mean? It's like, really play it up. But in the scene, I mean, his father picks him up and, like, puts him on the cart with the hat or the pile of the other bodies. Yeah. Yeah. Not that his father is in devastated. I mean, it's like his father is actually so devastated that this like, what else can you do?
00:25:22:08 - 00:25:26:01
Clark
And there's this war going on, you know, and there's all these people dying, you know?
00:25:26:02 - 00:25:27:12
Cullen
Yeah, yeah.
00:25:27:12 - 00:25:37:13
Clark
But there were a lot of little things like that. I think like the scene where the soldier like the there's like an airdrop, right. And a plane drops like this big steel canister.
00:25:37:13 - 00:25:40:01
Cullen
Yeah. And the supplies are all going too far.
00:25:40:01 - 00:25:57:18
Clark
They're going too far over. Right. And, and so there's like this like cylinder or this cylinder or this, like steel cylinder is dropped, you know, whatever it is, like 100 yards or something away from where it was supposed to have been. So like, this young, strong soldier just kind of decides to take it upon himself to run out there and grab it.
00:25:57:18 - 00:26:16:10
Clark
Right. Well, there's snipers all over the place. So at first, all of his buddies are like, Oh my God, you're crazy. What are you doing? You're going to get shot. You're going to get killed. This is nuts. But he, like, runs out there and he grabs this huge thing and it's like, can he even lift it? And it actually is able to lift it and he's actually running back with it.
00:26:16:10 - 00:26:22:07
Clark
And then, you know, all of the warnings from his fellow soldiers turn into cheers, like, come on, come on.
00:26:22:07 - 00:26:23:05
Cullen
You could do it, you could.
00:26:23:05 - 00:26:30:19
Clark
Do it. It's like you feel this, like, swell, you know, of excitement and like, support. And then he's just shot down.
00:26:31:06 - 00:26:31:12
Cullen
Yeah.
00:26:31:20 - 00:26:33:17
Clark
Yeah. And it's. And it's just like.
00:26:33:20 - 00:26:35:14
Cullen
And it's a canister. Yeah. And.
00:26:35:14 - 00:26:52:14
Clark
Right. And he drops the canister and it's just berets, It's just filled with hats. It's literally just filled with adds. Mm hmm. So meaningless. You know, this kid died for nothing, which, of course, is a huge part of what war, unfortunately, is. It's a lot of people dying, usually for not much.
00:26:53:16 - 00:27:10:06
Cullen
But I just want to add to that that one of the interesting things about them going there as well in person is that in the house that the British used as their headquarters, that's actually a museum now. And what they did there in.
00:27:10:06 - 00:27:11:07
Clark
Real life, The house.
00:27:11:08 - 00:27:35:00
Cullen
And in real life, Yeah. Yeah. And in the basement they like cleared out this massive they must have excavated a large area because I doubt the house was built with a basement. But you go underground and they actually recreate aided the streets of Arnhem as they would have been during the battle with like authentic the buildings that you can walk by now and the bridge and things like that.
00:27:35:00 - 00:28:14:23
Cullen
And with, you know, smoke going off and sound effects. And so it's actually quite interesting to you just reminded me of that in the when you were talking about how like you're, you know, just this seeing this degradation of this house and things like that. And it's quite fascinating to see it there. But, um, but yeah, I also just want to add to about the, the way that it's matter of fact as well is that it's not there's nothing particular clearly and I'm not saying this in a negative sense, but there's nothing particularly that that calls to itself about like the way that the camera is used or, you know, it's not like there's these
00:28:15:05 - 00:28:49:19
Cullen
crazy sophisticated shots that are like, you know, water is moving through the battle and it's like, how do you do that? Yeah, it's quite restrained in the way that it's shot. And yeah, I think that really works in its favor because, um, it doesn't feel so formalistic, like perhaps a movie from, you know, ten years earlier would, you know, like a big war epic in the sixties where they can kind of almost just feel like musicals, even if they're not musicals in a way, like just so grand and choreographed And yeah, very clearly most often shot in like studios.
00:28:50:20 - 00:28:51:10
Clark
Right? Right.
00:28:51:10 - 00:29:12:07
Cullen
And yet this is is quite formalistic in its style in terms of the way that it's it's not it's certainly not, you know like abstract and yet it really again it works in its favor because it is kind of this exploration of of like you said this this you know just the guy goes out and gets shot for.
00:29:12:07 - 00:29:34:09
Cullen
That's right. Like it's yeah it's it's meaningless. Yeah. And but at the same time it's not this overly dramatized like after that happens after the guy gets shot and it just cut it opens it just it just shows kind of like not even horror or like sadness. It's just they are all the guys that were watching them just kind of die down or like, Yeah, so like then and it.
00:29:34:09 - 00:29:51:07
Clark
Just goes on to the next thing. Yeah, it just goes on to the next thing. I mean, you're right. It's, you know, that the camera doesn't draw attention to itself, but the composition does. Yeah, my opinion not, not in a bad way. I don't mean in a bad way. I mean they it's, I think it's really well composed and generally really well shot.
00:29:51:07 - 00:30:09:15
Cullen
And blocking the even just that moment when the guy's walking to the bridge with the umbrella mean it kind of pulls back from him and reveals the the other soldiers you know coming up alongside of them. Yeah. Like things like that that are but very subtle in its execution yet so masterful in like the way that it's crafted.
00:30:10:04 - 00:30:34:12
Clark
Yeah it's almost kind of got this like, you know it's there's definitely kind of this seventies kind of dewy kind of glowy, kind of soft, you know, kind of thing, going on with a lot of it, which, you know, I wouldn't have I would have expected maybe a little grittier, but in its cinematography, not to say that the film itself doesn't have grit in it, but I just mean, you know, this you know what I'm talking about, right?
00:30:34:12 - 00:30:36:17
Clark
There's a little bloom, there's a little softness.
00:30:36:20 - 00:30:38:18
Cullen
Yeah, there's there's definitely some filters on the camera.
00:30:38:18 - 00:31:11:00
Clark
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And which which I wouldn't immediately it wouldn't immediately jump to me that that would have been a visual style to go with for a film with this topic. But, but it, I think they, it works but there's definitely some moments where it kind of gives it this dreamy kind of quality. Now maybe that has to do more with kind of how style has changed in film, and that might not have been the impression it would have given a contemporary audience watching this film.
00:31:12:02 - 00:31:30:23
Clark
But for me, watching it now in 2022, that's a little bit of the feel that it gives me. But overall, I feel like it really was a visually impressive And, you know, it's there's a there's a lot for the eyes to look at. It's enjoyable. You know, it's visually interesting and enjoyable film to watch.
00:31:31:09 - 00:31:37:09
Cullen
And there's a lot of there's a lot of, to me, like iconic moments. And perhaps just because it was such a big movie in my childhood. But yeah.
00:31:37:21 - 00:31:39:00
Clark
Where it stands out like.
00:31:39:00 - 00:31:50:04
Cullen
What So, so there's, there's these moments that the movie gets very specific and intimate. So I'm thinking about like when they commandeer the the house that Liv Ullmann lives in with Laurence Olivier.
00:31:50:17 - 00:31:52:03
Clark
And they turn it into like that.
00:31:52:05 - 00:32:15:07
Cullen
It's like a hospital. But the just the way that that scene opens as they basically ask her if they can use her house and she sort of, you know, hesitantly agrees she because she does want to help them, but she realizes that this is in a destroyed you know, she's now entering the war essentially. Right. Yeah. Um, but what we see is that, you know, they come in and then we kind of in one shot just pan over to these kids and kind of track over these kids playing with a toy train.
00:32:15:18 - 00:32:34:09
Cullen
And then you just see like a soldier's boot step kind of on the track and the toy train goes over and then just blood dribbles the red carpet and then it cuts away. And it's very subtle. And it's it's kind of just like it's this pristine white carpet these kids are playing. And then suddenly, you know, the war is here and outside the home.
00:32:34:09 - 00:33:09:00
Cullen
And and so that or when, you know, when, um, Gene Hackman and the the exiled kind of Polish fighters that had gone to Britain fled to Britain when Poland was invaded, finally get their chance to join the battle because they're delayed in getting there by, I think, like a matter of almost eight days or something. Yeah, and the operation was supposed to last only three or four, and they finally arrive and they're pulling the soldiers across the river on this these like this series of ropes and boats that are all connected like.
00:33:09:00 - 00:33:10:18
Clark
Pulley system to pull themselves.
00:33:10:18 - 00:33:27:00
Cullen
Or. Yeah. And then without any music or anything. And in a very again matter of fact way a flare goes up, you hear machine guns, you see some guys get shot in the boats and then Hackman just looks down at the water and there's just one body that's kind of waiting in a Sure. That's, you know, dead, of course.
00:33:27:06 - 00:34:02:21
Cullen
And it's just right in the surf. And that's quite the right word. But right just on the edge of the water. Yeah, it just it just kind of hits and then it cuts to another scene and it's like there's all these moments that where, you know, while it's such a grand, you know, and epic in in the old sense of the word and you know huge movie with all these crazy you know Yeah a who's who of cast and these massive set pieces with real tanks and real military equipment and all that it does it still hasn't a minute Yeah.
00:34:02:21 - 00:34:28:06
Cullen
These moments that need to hit um and I think that that's very and maybe I actually I've never read the script so I don't know. But Goldman William Goldman wrote it, who also wrote Butch Cassidy. And so it doesn't really he has a really, really great skill. And so I'm going to assume that it was quite accurate to his script because or at least those things were because in Butch Cassidy, one of the things that I mentioned in that episode was that there's a moment where the movie's quite lighthearted throughout.
00:34:28:06 - 00:34:49:17
Cullen
And then when they kill the Bandidos and it's the first time that Butch Cassidy has shot anybody and killed anybody, and suddenly the movie just gets this, has this like very, very dour tone for for a moment. And it's very, again, very intense for just a scene that in it doesn't feel out of place. So Goldman, I think, is very good at writing things like that.
00:34:49:17 - 00:35:18:23
Cullen
And they're all over this movie. And, you know, it's one of those things, again, that just is very impressive to me and, you know, at the end of the day as well. What I think differentiates this from a lot of other war movies is that they're ultimately not really successful you know, there's a kind of the the again, bureaucratic moment at the end where he's like, well, the mission was, you know, 90%, 90, but it wasn't you know, they mostly they had heavy, heavy losses.
00:35:18:23 - 00:35:38:06
Cullen
They completely underestimated the German position. You know, they had to retreat. They had to pull out of of where they were trying to hold. And then so it does, I think, ultimately criticize a lot of these these elements that are usually really touched upon, especially back in in that era of.
00:35:39:00 - 00:36:08:11
Clark
Film or I think it's like back in the sixties, you would have like, you know, fifties, sixties, at least the United States, you'd have films generally that, you know, of course were super patriotic and they would praise, you know, the all you know, there wouldn't be any criticism hardly at all of of the war. Right. Then you get into the seventies and you know of course, you know the the new Hollywood right in the United States.
00:36:08:11 - 00:36:37:13
Clark
I mean, you hardly had like a happy ending in any story in the seventies, you know, in American cinema. And so you do. Now, this is, of course, a British film, though, but I just mean kind of the zeitgeist of film in general, where you could have anti-heroes, you could have, you know, kind of cynical stories, You could have, you know, you're with unhappy Indians who had been critical of governments and critical of war and, you know, you've got Vietnam happening here.
00:36:37:13 - 00:37:08:20
Clark
And of course, that impacted the world, you know, not just the United States. And you you've got a lot of criticism about these things that didn't exist culturally or in cinema. And so, yeah, I mean, this film isn't as far as like directly or explicitly critical like a lot of films would be, especially later that were just outright full on, you know, explicitly critical of war.
00:37:08:20 - 00:37:13:00
Cullen
And yeah, the Thin Red Line or something. Yeah. Or Platoon Platoon, you know.
00:37:13:20 - 00:37:38:21
Clark
So so it's not that but it definitely but you don't have to read between the lines much either to to really see that they're kind of you know they're picking apart the bureaucracy, the senseless death that occurs and kind of the randomness that death can occur. The and just how the death can be really meaningless, frankly, in war.
00:37:38:21 - 00:37:43:17
Clark
So much of it. And I think they they they definitely that's a big part of this film.
00:37:44:06 - 00:38:04:03
Cullen
Yeah. And I think even just the ending, like, you know, the final shot of, you know, it doesn't end on a field of of graves. It doesn't end right on a, you know, return to Belgium where the allies have their kind of foothold in northern Europe. And, you know, they're all like the troops are like, well, we're going to go back out and get it.
00:38:04:03 - 00:38:26:03
Cullen
No, it ends with this Dutch family leaving their house and walking along this kind of tattered road with smoke and rubble around them. And it just kind of, you know, ends like that. And then it's funny, too, because when we did Alien a few episodes ago, I said that if there was ever a friend, like if someone it was like, here's $50 million and you get to make any franchise movie you want, what franchise would you choose?
00:38:26:03 - 00:38:27:09
Cullen
I would choose aliens.
00:38:27:10 - 00:38:27:21
Clark
And yeah.
00:38:27:22 - 00:38:47:18
Cullen
If somebody said, Here's $50 million and but you have to remake a movie and update it for moderate like you know modern times and yet to make yeah you know technology day it would absolutely be this and I wouldn't not in a sense that I believe that this movie needs a remake by no means but I think that it would be such a it's such a fascinating.
00:38:49:17 - 00:38:52:02
Clark
Boy There'd be a lot of CGI if you made it today.
00:38:52:02 - 00:38:53:07
Cullen
I know that, right?
00:38:53:08 - 00:38:54:11
Clark
You'd have to have it.
00:38:54:19 - 00:38:58:12
Cullen
Yeah. For 50 million. Absolutely. You wouldn't get the cast And what cast?
00:38:58:12 - 00:39:01:18
Clark
Yeah. I mean, you might get like two actors into.
00:39:01:18 - 00:39:25:15
Cullen
You get George Clooney, and that's it. Yeah, but, but just the, the idea like Market Garden has always been something that's really one of my, you know, I think in terms of the western front of the European theater in World War Two, the Battle of the Bulge tends to be my my favorite, you know, moment, which is just after this it was would have been December of of 44.
00:39:27:12 - 00:39:56:22
Cullen
But in terms of, you know the market Gardner's always been up there just because it was really just a prime example of like how these these young 18 year olds are are like chess pieces to a lot of these upper you know, the upper strategists of the war. Yeah and that like there's the one general at the beginning of the movie who's constantly trying to you know warn them that there's like tanks and Rommel is there and they're like, well, why would their model not Rommel?
00:39:57:23 - 00:39:58:21
Clark
Right. Correct.
00:39:59:04 - 00:40:13:09
Cullen
Field Montgomery or Field Montgomery Field Marshal Modell, who's a German, he's there. And it's like, well, they're obviously they wouldn't put him there if they didn't have, you know, a lot of troops. And they're like, no, they're just going to be a bunch of Hitler youth and old people that are going to fight us. It's going to be easy.
00:40:14:11 - 00:40:37:23
Cullen
And even when faced with like this evidence, mounting evidence that they still kind of go ahead and it's all just yeah, it's about like it's not about getting through with lives. The few lives lost as possible. It's just about getting through and establishing a foothold and, you know. Yeah. And so and they really kind of drive that point home.
00:40:38:14 - 00:40:41:12
Clark
Just how big of a machine war is, you know, just how.
00:40:41:16 - 00:40:42:02
Cullen
Yeah, it's.
00:40:42:02 - 00:41:14:13
Clark
Like, you know, attrition. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just, it's just this huge machine and oftentimes, sadly, you know, I mean, it's the machine grinds up, you know, young men and, and now women. But yeah, and the impact it has on civilians and I mean I, you know, when it when the film first started for a second I thought, oh, this is going to be kind of one of those, you know, films that's really about the glory and the, you know, and the action of war.
00:41:14:20 - 00:41:36:06
Clark
And so I was surprised to see that there was much more than that. So yeah, because kind of like it's marketing, you know, I kind of like I, you know, see the, the, the poster and, you know, and like, oh, I look at all these people and I'm like, Oh, this is going to be like kind of a John Wayne kind of action war movie, you know, is kind of what I was thinking.
00:41:36:06 - 00:41:41:05
Clark
And there is definitely a lot of action, but it is more.
00:41:42:07 - 00:42:00:03
Cullen
Than I do. We've kind of been doing this throughout, but I do also want to like just for a moment also sort of like, again, compare it to there's kind of this spectrum of of like war movies from like again on the far end, I'd say like The Thin Red Line, which is barely even a war film. It's in.
00:42:00:03 - 00:42:01:01
Clark
Apocalypse Now or.
00:42:01:01 - 00:42:21:20
Cullen
Of a yeah, or Apocalypse Now, where it's like it's using the setting of war to say something much grander about, you know, humanity and things like that. And then on the complete opposite end, you get something, you know, like, say, like the longest day. Yeah. You know, where it's, it's, it's very again full of like glory and like sacrifice and, and patriotism.
00:42:22:01 - 00:42:30:07
Cullen
Yeah. And then, you know, of course there's like the modern trend of the Saving Private Ryan's the shaky cam and things like that. And I like Saving Private Ryan.
00:42:30:07 - 00:42:32:00
Clark
It's not I know I do, too. I do.
00:42:32:09 - 00:42:34:00
Cullen
But it is. It did start this trend.
00:42:34:00 - 00:42:45:15
Clark
Right. But here's one. Here's an even newer one, like a film like Midway. I don't know. Midway in that. But that that's not that long ago. This is 2019. And I mean, it's like a full on Disney war.
00:42:45:15 - 00:42:48:07
Cullen
And tons and yeah.
00:42:48:07 - 00:42:50:11
Clark
As CGI and like Pearl Harbor it didn't.
00:42:50:20 - 00:42:51:21
Cullen
Exactly exactly.
00:42:51:23 - 00:42:54:23
Clark
Know those are the films that are on the far side.
00:42:55:04 - 00:42:55:20
Cullen
And I think they.
00:42:55:20 - 00:42:57:20
Clark
Almost like glamorizing war.
00:42:57:20 - 00:43:12:15
Cullen
It's like I honestly expected it same, same as you expected it to be like that. Yeah, I hadn't seen it in so long. Right. Like, yeah, I expected to sit down and watch this and be like, cause I honestly, I remembered the plot and I remembered a lot of things about it, but I just didn't really remember the movie as a whole.
00:43:13:22 - 00:43:17:23
Cullen
And so I was, I was really pleasantly surprised to see that it wasn't that.
00:43:18:06 - 00:43:19:03
Clark
Yeah, yeah.
00:43:19:06 - 00:43:47:15
Cullen
And I think yeah, I mean, there's this very interesting look, I would say for people who haven't seen it, who are listening, I honestly as in, in sort of feeling and mood and tone, it's, it's oddly similar to, to Dunkirk in a way where where Dunkirk is another one of those movies that is not doesn't really glorify anything about war and it's very matter of fact and death is dealt in a very matter of fact way.
00:43:47:15 - 00:44:11:21
Cullen
But there's not a lot of gore. Right. It's very massive in scale. It it's like these real plane battles and battleships and it's not a lot of CG. And so I'd say that if you if you enjoyed Dunkirk, perhaps I would I would recommend checking this out because this is not in you know it's Dunkirk doesn't have an all star cast of 1,000,001 celebrities.
00:44:13:08 - 00:44:14:08
Cullen
But I would say that it's well.
00:44:14:08 - 00:44:15:01
Clark
It's got a few.
00:44:15:01 - 00:44:35:14
Cullen
In total it's kind of got the same like thesis as Dunkirk of just this kind of like bureaucratic wastefulness of of course of course Dunkirk was also somewhat of a similar operation in a way of just this like massive mobilization to get a bunch of people out of a situation that they'd accidentally got themselves in.
00:44:37:00 - 00:44:41:12
Clark
Hey, I mean, let's not forget, though, let's not forget Harry Styles is in done.
00:44:41:12 - 00:44:43:10
Cullen
That's true. That's a good point. Yes.
00:44:43:12 - 00:44:43:21
Clark
I mean.
00:44:44:02 - 00:44:46:00
Cullen
On One Direction representation.
00:44:46:00 - 00:44:50:05
Clark
There, I mean, like, isn't that all the star power you need?
00:44:51:01 - 00:44:55:06
Cullen
I heard that one. Christopher Nolan was gasping that he didn't even know that Harry Styles was like, famous at all.
00:44:55:16 - 00:45:00:12
Clark
I don't I didn't I don't think I knew who Harry Styles styles was in 2017.
00:45:00:12 - 00:45:01:13
Cullen
I'm fairly it's just.
00:45:01:19 - 00:45:07:00
Clark
Not my I will say though not to digress too far but that is Nolan's best film.
00:45:07:12 - 00:45:15:20
Cullen
Yeah I know. I would agree. I actually I'm not I'm not a Hugh. I like Nolan. I've got to shoot him, as Nolan said. But I. Exactly. I'm not. I don't really love him.
00:45:16:06 - 00:45:43:01
Clark
I appreciate him. I appreciate him. Obviously, he's passionate about filmmaking and and I think that, you know, I will always welcome me into the community that he makes, you know, all kinds of different people. Right. And, you know, he's clearly passionate about filmmaking. And he I think, given a lot of visibility to cinema. And so that's wonderful. Yeah, right.
00:45:43:01 - 00:46:05:16
Clark
Yeah. I, I a lot of his yeah, a lot of his films I'm not super crazy about, but this film was great. And I think your, your comparison to these two films is an interesting one because this, you know, Dunkirk is kind of the same situation. It's, it's picking one kind of specific, you know, moment of, of a larger war.
00:46:05:16 - 00:46:29:01
Clark
So this is like the evacuation of Dunkirk, of course, in in Bridge Too Far. It's specifically the Operation Market Garden and taking one of those elements and kind of, you know, looking at it from all of these different perspectives, there are many more perspectives in bridge too far because we're looking at it from multiple different, you know, armies and, you know, even sides.
00:46:29:16 - 00:46:53:00
Clark
But but Dunkirk still has a little bit of that. You know, we're looking at it from these different soldiers perspectives. We're seeing kind of the same moments go by from all of these different perspectives. So I think that's a really good it's a good comparison. And I think you're right. I mean, I think it's anybody who had seen Dunkirk and you liked it at all, you there's probably a good chance that you would like bridge too far.
00:46:53:05 - 00:46:54:12
Cullen
Yeah. Yeah.
00:46:55:12 - 00:47:08:10
Clark
I wish that they had you know, it's sometimes it's sometimes it's a little bit heartbreaking. I wish that there were more caregiver to these films in their in their, you know, taking them to modern media or.
00:47:08:10 - 00:47:09:09
Cullen
Restorations.
00:47:09:09 - 00:47:18:23
Clark
And, you know, pseudo modern media of Blu ray is not exactly modern as a pretty old I mean, I think we're sitting at what, like Blu rays are like 15 years old. Yeah, right. Yeah.
00:47:19:07 - 00:47:19:12
Cullen
Yeah.
00:47:19:22 - 00:47:31:16
Clark
So it's not even brought to 4K, but yeah, you know, and I get it. I get it. There's not a lot of money to do that. But, you know, the copy that I had was like middling. It wasn't horrible, but it wasn't great.
00:47:31:16 - 00:47:34:17
Cullen
Yeah, it's not a great scan. I same, same with me now.
00:47:34:17 - 00:47:37:04
Clark
How did you see it? Did you stream it. Did you have a copy.
00:47:37:06 - 00:47:58:23
Cullen
I have I, my dad owns the version. I would have watched, so I streamed it instead. Yeah, Interestingly, I streamed it and it was for some reason the German subtitles weren't working. Like in terms of the, like, the moments. Oh, so you're thinking. Yeah. So I just had to basically go from memory of what they're talking. And there are honestly, it was weird, weirdly, uh, easy.
00:47:59:10 - 00:48:13:16
Cullen
Like it came back. Yeah. Like when you, like, flatten Arnhem and all that, when the, when the they refuse the surrender and all that. Um, that's also, that's what that scene when he's like we'd love to take you in but we don't have the, the facilities to take.
00:48:13:17 - 00:48:14:07
Clark
Yeah, yeah.
00:48:14:19 - 00:48:18:00
Cullen
And it's a great bit, but I do also have humor.
00:48:18:02 - 00:48:23:17
Clark
We have. Yeah, there's a lot happening. This is an example of that this is an example of that. There is some humor there so.
00:48:24:02 - 00:48:40:02
Cullen
But it's never, it's not like gags, it's just that No this kind of you know there's, Yeah. There's these moments where again it, it probably the same type of humor that you'd probably have in a real conflict like this, right. Where it's like, yeah, you know, tell them to go to hell. And then they, you know, the Germans are asking the British if they want to surrender.
00:48:40:02 - 00:48:57:20
Cullen
And then the British respond by saying that they can't really accept the Germans surrender at this time. So, so things like that are really and I think that that's one other thing that that this movie does that a lot of war movies miss out on. Just before I move on to this. Yeah. No next point is that is that it?
00:48:58:02 - 00:49:23:00
Cullen
It's so fast. I remember as a kid being so fascinated by the fact that you could have like one of the majors in the British army, you know, be transported to the German HQ to to have a conversation with the German general while the fighting is still going on. All these things where it's like, you know, you just you really get a sense of, again, the the kind of odd, odd bureaucracy of the hour.
00:49:23:09 - 00:49:27:02
Clark
Yeah, it's kind of surreal, you know? Yeah, I agreed.
00:49:27:07 - 00:49:35:05
Cullen
And then they'll go back 2 minutes later to to kill each other. Right. It's so it's it's it's fascinating. But I also I want to mention the the score.
00:49:35:13 - 00:49:35:18
Clark
The.
00:49:35:18 - 00:49:53:22
Cullen
And so John Addison, I think I mentioned this at the beginning with John Addison fought in the real he who is the composer of the soundtrack fought in Operation Market Garden and I love the score for that. Like, this is one of hands down, one of my favorite soundtracks, too, to a movie.
00:49:54:07 - 00:49:58:19
Clark
Yeah, he was a colonel in the royal filled field. Sorry, Artillery.
00:49:59:00 - 00:50:09:12
Cullen
Yeah. And I'm surprised that he didn't do have more of a successful career as a composer. He did. You know, I got that wrong.
00:50:09:13 - 00:50:30:00
Clark
Let me correct myself. That was his father. So he came home. Okay. I'm so sorry to interrupt you, but I want to talk. So. So they don't have an erroneous piece of info here? No. His father was a colonel in the Royal Field Artillery. But you're right. So he was actually a tank officer. Yeah. And he served at the Battle of Normandy, and then, like you said, in Operation Market Garden.
00:50:30:04 - 00:50:31:06
Clark
Okay. Yeah. Wow.
00:50:32:02 - 00:50:54:12
Cullen
Yeah. And so he. So I'm surprised. But again, this this score is very I think an I never noticed this as a kid. Obviously, I wasn't, you know, analyzing it. But I think last night was the first time that I really noticed when I was watching this how the score begins as this kind of triumphant military march with the snare drums and the brass and all that kind of tip.
00:50:54:14 - 00:50:55:01
Cullen
But there's.
00:50:55:01 - 00:50:56:03
Clark
Also this. Yeah.
00:50:56:03 - 00:51:15:19
Cullen
Then it gets into this kind of tinge of like, melancholy. And there's like, even though even when it's very sweeping and big and kind of boisterous, there's still is this like it's not it's all primarily in a major key, but there's almost this like element where it's kind of leans into a minor at points and.
00:51:16:06 - 00:51:18:09
Clark
Kind of Yeah, more somber.
00:51:18:16 - 00:51:33:12
Cullen
Yeah. And in even in like that main theme it's it's very I don't know something about the score when you listen to this theme song just fits so perfectly with the subject matter of the film. Yeah that you know and it's so intriguing.
00:51:34:03 - 00:51:43:22
Clark
And well and it's and it's so rare. I mean, I, I can't think of another film. I'm sure maybe it's happened before, but I can't think of it where the composer was actually present.
00:51:44:01 - 00:51:44:09
Cullen
For the.
00:51:44:09 - 00:51:55:16
Clark
Event. Really life, you know, in there and active in the real life events that the film is depicting. I mean, that's that's got to be exceedingly rare. I would imagine. You know.
00:51:56:14 - 00:51:58:14
Cullen
And I can't think of another example of that.
00:51:58:19 - 00:52:20:05
Clark
I can't either. And so, gosh, I mean, I can really fathom, you know, as as you would be composing music to have actually lived that and to have those memories that you could draw upon. And I mean, that that's got to bring a richness to that creation of that soundtrack that just, you know, adds a different layer, you know, for sure.
00:52:20:11 - 00:52:30:22
Clark
And that's that's pretty extraordinary. And I didn't know that when I watched films. I don't know. We learn that in our discussions here, but that's extremely interesting. Wow. Yeah.
00:52:31:07 - 00:52:39:21
Cullen
It makes you kind of I wonder how he if he had any input on the film. Otherwise, if they ask too many questions about it.
00:52:39:21 - 00:52:40:07
Clark
I was.
00:52:40:07 - 00:52:41:21
Cullen
Just he was yeah I'm I'm not sure.
00:52:42:05 - 00:52:42:19
Clark
I would and.
00:52:42:19 - 00:53:01:11
Cullen
It's the other interesting thing about the movie is even with its all star cast, it it didn't perform that well so it was it was a success in Europe. It was it it did well in Europe, but in North America, it didn't do very well. The reviews were the reviews were positive, but not.
00:53:02:00 - 00:53:04:09
Clark
Yeah, it was. Well, we're kind of half. Half. Yeah, yeah.
00:53:04:16 - 00:53:31:22
Cullen
Yeah. And I think I honestly think one of the reasons that may be is that it came out two months after a month after Star Wars. And so obviously Star Wars had ushered in this new era of, yeah, huge spectacle science fiction. And I wouldn't honestly be surprised if a lot of audiences were just like, who cares? Like, well, this old fart war movie, you know?
00:53:31:22 - 00:53:53:00
Clark
And I. Yeah, yeah, that's true, because the film does harken back to an older era, I think, of storytelling and, you know, the we're talking about, you know, a World War two film, a film that is about something that happened in 44 specifically, and here we are in 77. And, you know, you said Star Wars was released just to come.
00:53:53:00 - 00:53:57:02
Cullen
May of 77. Yeah. So so this came out in end of June of 76.
00:53:57:02 - 00:54:09:05
Clark
So it would have still so Star Wars would have still been tearing it up in theaters. Yeah. At this point because, you know, films actually I know if you're if you're for our younger audience out there, films used to last longer in theaters than just like, yeah, they.
00:54:09:05 - 00:54:09:19
Cullen
Could be out for.
00:54:10:02 - 00:54:28:05
Clark
Over a year. They could actually be it star Wars was probably in theaters for, well, you know, a year if you, you know, count everywhere. But yeah, I mean, Star Wars would have still been probably eaten up a lot of box office at that. Definitely So yeah. So yeah, you wouldn't have you know, you might not have for several different reasons.
00:54:28:05 - 00:54:53:13
Clark
You might not have as as large an audience perhaps for such an expensive film. And, and let's also to it's face it a three hour runtime you've got a lot less screenings that can take place in a day. So and I might have this wrong and maybe if you know you can help me. But wasn't this privately financed?
00:54:53:13 - 00:55:01:23
Cullen
Let's see. So it was it was produced by Levine. It was so, yeah, because it was, I think. Did United Artists know United Artists just bought the distribution?
00:55:01:23 - 00:55:04:08
Clark
Yes. So that might be because.
00:55:04:09 - 00:55:07:18
Cullen
Yeah. Yeah. Johnny Levine Productions was the production company.
00:55:07:18 - 00:55:38:11
Clark
Yeah. So it you know, it was privately financed and so, you know, and I don't know a ton about Joseph Levine to kind of, you know, I'm not sure what his production history was, what films he had produced before or after this, but or even, you know, where the money came from for this film. But but, you know, it's it's it's surprising that a film, you know, with this many stars, with this much commercial potential, would even be allowed to be 3 hours long, you know.
00:55:39:12 - 00:55:48:19
Cullen
And without, you know, not that intermissions were huge in the seventies, but for longer movies, it was quite common to see them even then. So I'm.
00:55:48:19 - 00:55:58:22
Clark
Surprised. Get yourself like an old fashioned road show showing and trying. Yes. Yeah. The last film that I saw, like a road show would have been Tarantino's Hateful Eight.
00:55:58:22 - 00:55:59:06
Cullen
Yeah.
00:56:00:05 - 00:56:09:09
Clark
I went to go see that I 78 in 70 millimeter and actually projected in film. And we had they had a road show and it was really fun. That was cool with the.
00:56:09:18 - 00:56:10:14
Cullen
The overture and all that.
00:56:10:14 - 00:56:20:06
Clark
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that I this, I love like, you know, it's like you kind of set the mood. You have like a brief overture. You're kind of like, let the music wash over you and it.
00:56:20:06 - 00:56:22:12
Cullen
Feels more like an event, right? Yeah.
00:56:22:12 - 00:56:41:04
Clark
And you're getting excited. Like, you know, your imagination starts to run wild. Like, what's, you know, what's. How's it going to open? What's the story? You know, it's like, I love that. I love like, it helps with the immersion, you know, because let's be honest, it's like you need a palate cleanser after all these commercials and the stupid trivia shows that they have in theaters now.
00:56:41:04 - 00:56:48:07
Clark
Yes. You know, it's like all this crap. And it's like, you know, you've got the like, talking heads that are, you know, were.
00:56:48:08 - 00:56:50:19
Cullen
Arguing against the next big Disney film.
00:56:51:03 - 00:57:08:22
Clark
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You it's like, hey, let's, you know, let's talk about, you know, whatever frozen five and you know, it's all this like supermarket east super pitchy stuff And then, you know, if you're going in to watch like, this somber war movie or something, you know, and it just cuts right into it. It's like, I feel like you need a palette.
00:57:09:00 - 00:57:20:07
Cullen
You need to see. Yeah. You need to get in the mood, Right? Yeah. I think that's that's the shame about this movie is that, you know, I love it a lot. Yeah. Yeah. And I would love to see a restoration of it.
00:57:20:21 - 00:57:33:15
Clark
Yeah, I'd love to see a good restoration. I think it's right. I think it would be ripe for a high quality, you know, restoration, 4K release. You know, even if they didn't do a physical media, they could do it justice for streaming.
00:57:34:14 - 00:57:40:11
Cullen
Yeah, they likely would. I mean, it's not the most famous movie in the world, even though there's a million stars in it.
00:57:41:03 - 00:58:01:05
Clark
And, you know, like I said, I mean and here I am, I had never seen it and I may have heard of it. And I just am not remembering but I can't even recall really having heard much about this film at all. So it you know, there you go. You know, but it's you know, I don't control these things.
00:58:01:05 - 00:58:07:12
Clark
If I did, if I could wave a magic wand. Yes. Yeah. Which is I'm not saying that it looked horrible. I'm not saying it looked horrible, but.
00:58:07:17 - 00:58:35:12
Cullen
Well, the be that glowy, sort of like hazy, very 6070s look that was applied to a lot of movies back then. Yeah. Does not look good in less like subpar resolution the winds up just kind of muddying the image whereas I'm sure projected on film it looks incredible. Yeah, but but that kind of softer look is always it's always going to look rougher in a, you know, less well done transfer.
00:58:35:23 - 00:58:52:22
Clark
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, we didn't talk about this, but, but I kind of want to bring it up because it was one of the things that stood out to me. Now it won a handful of BAFTAs. It didn't win any awards here in the United States, but it won a handful of BAFTAs and won one of the BAFTAs.
00:58:52:22 - 00:59:12:15
Clark
It won was for sound design. Now it's fun for me, and I just like talking to my wife like a few days ago. And I was kind of explaining why I so much love watching older films and I was kind of thinking about it and I was explaining it to her and, you know, kind of my articulation of that in part in part it's that I think they made better make better films back then.
00:59:12:15 - 00:59:34:01
Clark
But but also it's like the closest that we've got to time travel now in a couple of different ways. You know, if if you're a cinephile, if you love cinema, one of the ways that it's kind of like time travel is that you can go back and you can you can look at the state of the art as it was when, you know, so in this case in 77.
00:59:34:14 - 00:59:57:11
Clark
So you're going back and you can see like what was the grammar of film like? What was, you know, how were they using technology to tell stories? And and if you really watch these older films, you'll notice that there are some pretty significant differences in expectations that modern audiences have for the stories that they're told and how they're told, as opposed to in the seventies, for example.
00:59:57:11 - 01:00:27:05
Clark
It's also interesting, too, because you just it's you get it's like time travel. You can go back and you can see a young Robert Redford and you can see, you know, and it's it's it's like it's just really beautiful to me. It's one of the one of the many reasons why I so love cinema. But one of the things that stood out to me in a funny way about this film was its was were aspects of its sound design that was especially interesting because this actually, you know, was noted and honored for its sound design.
01:00:27:05 - 01:00:52:03
Clark
And you'd said that this that you noticed it too. It's like you'll have these, these really wide you know, the camera will be really wide and we'll be seeing this like entire, you know, battlefield battle going on and this large scale and scope. And there are many soldiers fighting. And then all of a sudden you'll hear as if the person were like, right in your face, you know, like a you know, like Indian soldiers.
01:00:52:07 - 01:00:53:06
Cullen
Yeah. Yeah.
01:00:53:23 - 01:01:06:12
Clark
And it sounds like so like stock sound, you know, like you can so tell, like the ADR is just like, you know, it's like there was an actor standing like six inches away from a microphone just.
01:01:06:12 - 01:01:11:16
Cullen
Doing a bunch of noise. Oh yeah. I just I don't think there's any use of the Wilhelm scream in this.
01:01:11:16 - 01:01:12:07
Clark
No, I did.
01:01:12:18 - 01:01:14:11
Cullen
Doesn't do points on that. But No.
01:01:14:11 - 01:01:21:15
Clark
No, no it does that That's true. But and you'd even mention too right. There's like that scene where there's you know help me.
01:01:21:22 - 01:01:29:03
Cullen
Yeah. Yeah. After the, the crossing in the boats and then prosthetic out of the all the bodies on the shore of the beach and.
01:01:29:16 - 01:01:29:22
Clark
Yeah.
01:01:29:22 - 01:01:33:22
Cullen
But we're like, we're like there's like this, we're like, we're probably like a hundred feet away.
01:01:33:22 - 01:01:44:08
Clark
Yeah, we're, yeah, we're like a hundred yards away from the action, right? It's like this wide, wide, wide shot. And so. But anyway, I kind of joke. I don't need to poke too much fun at the film.
01:01:44:11 - 01:01:56:19
Cullen
And there are moments that do sound, I think all the the military, you know, in terms of like the weaponry and the the scope of the sound design of that sort of stuff sounds quite sounds really good.
01:01:56:21 - 01:02:11:05
Clark
And that's often a giveaway, too, because, boy, you know, if you so this is another kind of fun thing about grammar of cinema and technology, of cinema. You know, you go back to especially a decade before this and every single bullet sound is like.
01:02:11:12 - 01:02:13:12
Cullen
Do you. Yeah.
01:02:13:12 - 01:02:41:03
Clark
Do you know it? Yeah, Yeah. Especially if you go back to spaghetti westerns and. Yeah, and, and, you know, every single gunfire sounds like that, you know, So. So definitely the film does not contain that kind of stuff. So you're right. I mean, I think a lot of the battles had did have good sound design, but just that that the kind of like ignoring the spatial relationship of what we're seeing on screen and what we're hearing in our ears now.
01:02:41:03 - 01:02:44:15
Clark
Now maybe that was actually made maybe that's like a mastering issue.
01:02:44:16 - 01:02:48:18
Cullen
It could have been yeah. Or it could have just been a challenge in terms of the like analog.
01:02:48:18 - 01:03:05:13
Clark
I'm sure it was a mono track. I'm sure it was a mono optical track on the film. And so who knows what was what happened to that after the fact, you know, so so it to be fair, I can't actually blame that on the film. That could have been something to do with how they remastered the sound and presented it on the Blu ray that I had.
01:03:06:07 - 01:03:16:23
Clark
And setups can be so different that it even could be, you know, the the type of amplifier I have and my speaker set up and all this kind of jazz. So I just.
01:03:16:23 - 01:03:18:13
Cullen
Yeah, it does. It is a little bit of a funny.
01:03:18:23 - 01:03:30:02
Clark
It, it mostly it was just a funny story. Yeah. Yeah. And it gave me a chance to kind of share one of my reasons that I love cinema and my kind of like my little time traveling theory there.
01:03:30:02 - 01:03:53:14
Cullen
But yeah, just, just before we wrap up too, I want to. Yeah, I want to add that my favorite I forgot to mention this earlier, but my favorite gag in the movie. Yeah, there's a lot and there's a few of them. Again, not, not gag in terms of like slapstick. But I hear a joke is when the, you know, right after the planes all take off and we cut to this church service and the church service is going on the choir singing and everyone's like in the church.
01:03:53:14 - 01:04:11:11
Cullen
And then suddenly you hear this rumbling of of all these, you know, hundreds and hundreds of planes going overhead. And it's like everyone just sort of fizzles out. The song and looks up. And it's just this really great bit, I think, of of, you know, again, the movie does have have this sense of humor in these little moments.
01:04:11:11 - 01:04:13:02
Cullen
So, you know, it does.
01:04:13:02 - 01:06:19:01
Clark
And there's like there's and they're kind of visual like you just described, you know, these kind of like nice kind of like lighter visual moments and or even kind of multilayered.