00:00:10:19 - 00:00:41:09
Clark
Hello, everyone, and welcome once again to the Soldiers of Cinema Podcast. I'm here with my co-host, Mr. Mustache himself, Cullen McFater. So you're like, We have different names. Hello, Is this me and my Mr. Mustache? Sorry. Sorry. I have to. Well, before I get into mustache and I'm your other host, Mr. Clark Coffey? But no, Cullen, it's a compliment because Cullen has this amazing mustache, which I know none of you can see.
00:00:42:00 - 00:01:04:12
Clark
And the reason I call it out and and I have to kind of tease him about it is because I'm actually jealous. I cannot grow anywhere near as cool a mustache as Cullen can. So it totally comes from a place of jealousy and any. Hoo. All right, well, hey, with mustache. Talked about an aside. Let's get into our film.
00:01:05:05 - 00:01:20:13
Clark
So for our 58th episode today, we are going to be discussing Cullen's pick and I think what if both of our all time favorite films, it sounds like, is Ridley Scott's 1979 film Alien? Mm hmm. Yeah.
00:01:21:00 - 00:01:25:17
Cullen
I I'm surprised that I haven't seen this earlier.
00:01:25:19 - 00:01:46:10
Clark
I'm surprised you haven't suggested it earlier either, especially when we were going to get into it. But I knew you're telling me, like, what a huge impact this film had on you. And if you can, you know, I'm like, I mean, we're like 58 episodes in. Now, granted, I think for the first 20 or 30 we focused on of we had kind of a different a different thing going on where we were.
00:01:46:12 - 00:01:47:06
Cullen
There's also Herzog.
00:01:47:16 - 00:02:10:10
Clark
On Werner Herzog, which is, you know, for those people who haven't gone all the way back into our repertoire and listen to those, that's kind of how Cullen and I met was in a Werner Herzog filmmaking class. And so that was kind of the origin story of our podcast. And so we were really focused on Herzog for the first whatever it was, I can't even remember now 20, 30 episodes.
00:02:10:19 - 00:02:12:00
Cullen
I think it's eight or something.
00:02:12:04 - 00:02:22:07
Clark
Yeah, something like that. Yeah, a lot. And yeah, so I'm surprised that it's taken so long to get to it. But that's hey, that's good. We've got a deep roster, right? So yeah.
00:02:22:08 - 00:02:27:04
Cullen
We've got to be careful because I'm sure that both of us could go on for like 5 hours about this movie. So.
00:02:27:04 - 00:02:28:06
Clark
Yeah, yeah, we'll have to try.
00:02:28:06 - 00:02:31:23
Cullen
And make this not the the longest ever podcast episode.
00:02:32:03 - 00:02:42:07
Clark
We'll try not to. So but let's. Okay, so let's jump in there then with you know you're tell me about kind of what this film means to you when you first saw it, you know?
00:02:43:04 - 00:03:00:07
Cullen
Yeah. I mean, this it's it's kind of it's like again, I've got to condense this part of it, too, because I could just go on and on about it. But so the first time I saw this movie was I was probably in elementary school. And a friend of mine who I'm still actually quite close friends with today, invited me over.
00:03:00:07 - 00:03:33:05
Cullen
And I guess his mom was always a really big fan of like Sigourney Weaver in these movies and things like that and James Cameron. And we watched Aliens first. I remember I saw aliens first. And I think the only reason that we watched Aliens first was because probably AMC or something was doing a marathon of them and they were recording them to like VHS, you know, like the right on files, right or placement files, but recording the show to the VHS tapes so we could watch it back.
00:03:33:05 - 00:03:54:12
Cullen
And so the first time I saw aliens, you know, obviously I loved it like a really cool kind of scary action movie and sci fi and all that. And and then I think, like the next week he was like, Oh yeah, my mom recorded Alien this time so we can go watch Alien. So I went back over to his house and we watched and again, these are like not official VHS.
00:03:54:12 - 00:04:20:00
Cullen
So they were the worst quality any time there was any anything dark, which there's a lot of in this movie, you basically couldn't see anything. Yeah. And the sound was all that like, really? Ray Bradbury. You know, lots of static in the sound and things like that. And but again, it kind of, I guess goes to show that like we just didn't know really what HD was then anyway, it wasn't like you know, it didn't bother us at all because there was no relative comparison other than a movie theater.
00:04:20:16 - 00:04:26:00
Clark
Dude, I used to watch everything at home on like a nine inch RCA, black white.
00:04:26:01 - 00:04:26:16
Cullen
Teeth, black.
00:04:26:16 - 00:04:27:12
Clark
And white. So I had.
00:04:27:21 - 00:04:49:06
Cullen
A black and white TV as well for a while. Yeah. And so, so yeah, I mean, and then I immediately love them and I probably I don't know how many years later, but, but it stuck with me so much. And my friend again, same friend Evan stuck with us so much that, that when Prometheus came out we went to see it together with a few other friends.
00:04:49:06 - 00:05:08:10
Cullen
And in high school I remember this. We had this big film class and we made this movie that was like a parody of Alien called the Poster promo, which is just switching the name of the ship from an end to a P. And that's where I got the, you know, the production company that I run now is Eternal Pictures.
00:05:08:10 - 00:05:15:01
Cullen
And of course, even in my professional life, this movie is is, you know, abundantly involved.
00:05:15:04 - 00:05:19:20
Clark
Can I just add, though, that like, poster Momo makes me think of like an Italian dish? Yeah.
00:05:19:21 - 00:05:20:13
Cullen
Pastrami or.
00:05:20:13 - 00:05:27:00
Clark
Something. When I hear when I hear first promo, I imagine, like, you know, Mario or something. Yeah.
00:05:27:02 - 00:05:58:17
Cullen
You know, like one this little pasta dish or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I and, but it's one of those movies that also, like, every it's difficult for me to think of a movie that I have made, even if they're not horror movies, if there is purely drama or whatever, that hasn't been somehow influenced by alien of if be it, you know, visually or you know, whether I'm stealing just a shot or something like that or just the, the, you know, kind of, um, and then there were none qualities of the screenplay.
00:05:58:17 - 00:06:28:01
Cullen
And I think that that's another thing that really affected me about this movie is that I, I grew up loving Agatha Christie and Sherlock Holmes and things like that and like and then there were None is still one of my favorite books. And of course, this screenplay and this movie really reference that a lot, not in literary references and dialog, but you know, everyone that is in all the behind the scenes stuff talks about, you know, kind of the Agatha Christie overtones of like the people going missing one by one and, you know, that sort of thing.
00:06:28:01 - 00:06:51:18
Cullen
So I think that it was it was right up my alley and, you know, right up until the point that, like my first feature that I did last year, the entire, you know, final 15 minute climax is completely, completely based on Alien. You know, I every time I was trying to describe to someone, I would just show them, you know, a scene from Alien and be like, this is this is what we're doing to the point that it's a slow Dolley on the ground backwards of someone.
00:06:51:18 - 00:06:51:22
Cullen
Yeah.
00:06:52:06 - 00:07:15:02
Clark
So so so what do you think like but when you were a kid right so a lot of this is in hindsight, right. Where it's like okay, now, now you you know, you're you're a cinephile and a filmmaker yourself. But at the time when you were a kid, like what stood out the most to you? Like, was it like the creature design was it that that tension and suspense?
00:07:15:02 - 00:07:17:09
Clark
Was it the science fiction aspect of like.
00:07:17:09 - 00:07:21:19
Cullen
I think it was just the, the like elements of just.
00:07:21:20 - 00:07:23:22
Clark
Sort of Weaver and her. This is where I was.
00:07:23:23 - 00:07:45:10
Cullen
Sigourney Weaver Yes. Yeah. The background. I think the world like this is probably my favorite fictional universe of any any movie. I'm not a really big I'm not like a big franchise guy. I don't Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, I don't go into the Marvel movies even like, you know, Star Wars. I think a few of the movies are pretty good, but I'm not I'm not a huge, you know, I don't really like.
00:07:46:01 - 00:08:04:04
Cullen
Yeah, I know you're not a fan of filmmaker. Yeah, exactly. But but I will say that like Alien is something that no matter what it is, you know, if it's a video game, if it's a movie or whatever, a TV show, I'd probably watch it just because I really, really like the design of this world. It feels very rich.
00:08:04:04 - 00:08:11:14
Cullen
It feels very realistic where, you know, you've got this corporation that Weyland Utenti Corp. I think it's just Weyland in this one. And I think they put the Utah Yeah.
00:08:11:14 - 00:08:12:20
Clark
They add that on later Yeah.
00:08:14:08 - 00:08:24:18
Cullen
And it's like this but they're not like outright antagonistic evil They're just a corporation. Yeah. And they do the same thing that all corporations do, which is expand their, you know, lower.
00:08:24:21 - 00:08:28:06
Clark
Which ends up being ultimately evil. But that's a.
00:08:28:18 - 00:08:48:22
Cullen
It's another very realistic portrayal of like, you know, corporate corporate kind of lifestyle and things like that. And I think a very good and dire warning as to kind of the dangers of powerful corporations. But and so I just I just love the the you know, it's not as dower as Blade Runner, I'd say like I like the world of Blade Runner as well.
00:08:48:22 - 00:09:10:17
Cullen
But I'd say that Alien, there's like a little bit more of a a grounded sense where it's like this just, it just feels so incredibly lived in and, and real and not necessarily like a future that is necessarily what we would get to, but rather I could see in some sort of alternate earth, you know, that this would be a pretty it just feels like it's a very well thought out.
00:09:10:17 - 00:09:39:00
Clark
Well the character Yeah I yeah I mean and I think that's you know so that's so we'll get into all of that because I think that what you're describing in that art direction and production design and you know some of the most amazing people that have worked in that in that field and Ridley Scott himself as a director is one of the probably most production design oriented directors ever, you know, Yeah, certainly at his level of success.
00:09:39:09 - 00:10:04:17
Clark
But yeah, I mean, for me, I saw the film when I was very young too. I have no recollection of when I first saw it. I was three when it came out, so I definitely didn't see it when it first came out. It's possible and I can't remember. I just can't remember. But it's actually possible that I saw aliens first two or saw aliens very closely about when I saw Alien.
00:10:05:22 - 00:10:14:08
Clark
I definitely have more memory. So when I was a kid, I think if you were to ask me, I would have said I like aliens better when I was really young. Because.
00:10:14:12 - 00:10:14:18
Cullen
Yeah.
00:10:15:02 - 00:10:35:08
Clark
Because it's just it's just it's an action film, you know? It's it's, you know, for a 13 year old kid, it was just it was so much more action going on in that film. You get to see the alien a lot more. There's guns and explosions and the like, egg laying mother at the end and the big like, you know, like a neck fight.
00:10:35:08 - 00:10:55:23
Clark
I'll just call her a fight, you know, basically at the end image, just a lot more going on. But but certainly as I got older, Alien became my my favorite of the two but to go back so yeah, I was young, too. I saw it probably on HBO or TV something, you know, for sure. And I kind of in the same boat as you.
00:10:55:23 - 00:11:23:07
Clark
The thing that really stuck out to me was the world that they created. I mean, it's I, I also am not a fanboy really, of any other kind of cinematic universe, I guess, for lack of a better term. But I have always been intrigued by this cinematic universe, and I'm at least partially interested in every alien film that's been released since.
00:11:23:14 - 00:11:54:01
Clark
And there have been there have been obviously some not stellar films made in the in the series, but even then I'm like, I can find something to enjoy if it's if only it's like another little tidbit about this world. But I think that speaks so much to the density and richness of the of the production design and art direction of this film that it left so many avenues to build upon down the road.
00:11:54:01 - 00:12:08:12
Clark
For all the other stories that have, you know, kind of sprung forth from this first film. And it leaves such a it's just such a rich film. Your imagination just runs wild. I think You can't help.
00:12:08:13 - 00:12:25:17
Cullen
Yeah, you just you want to know more about it and I think that's the thing is that especially with this and aliens as well and I mean I would say pretty much all the movies is that they never like you never see too much of the world. So your curiosity is almost driven nuts because you're just like, I want to know what Earth looks like.
00:12:25:17 - 00:12:27:12
Cullen
I want to know what? Yeah, you know what?
00:12:27:15 - 00:12:28:03
Clark
What you do.
00:12:28:04 - 00:12:31:19
Cullen
What is this corporate structure? What's this? What does the country is like, you know?
00:12:32:00 - 00:12:54:12
Clark
And what you do see is so well put together. Yeah. And I think that's why I think that's why you want to see more because it's just so visually rich and so beautiful. But let's let's back up though, for a second. And because I think the origin of this film is pretty interesting, you know, so the story in at least like I mean, the screenplay credit goes to Dan O'Bannon.
00:12:54:19 - 00:13:20:14
Clark
This is kind of like especially if you watch the really extraordinary I think it's like 3 to 4 hour long making of documentary that exist for this film. And actually every other alien film, at least of the original four films, you can really get a sense between especially like David Gila and Dan O'Bannon, that there's definitely like was some contention between the two of them.
00:13:20:14 - 00:13:27:23
Clark
No writing of the story, you know, But but Dan O'Bannon goes way back to Dark Star John Carpenter's first film.
00:13:28:06 - 00:13:34:01
Cullen
Which sort of inspired, weirdly enough, this because there's the alien creature sort of star that which.
00:13:34:01 - 00:13:54:15
Clark
Is a beach ball. Yeah. So dark. Depp stars like a super low budget. It's basically a student film. It's worth seeing, though, I would say I own it. I've seen it. It's worth seen. It's pretty goofy, but it's kind of part of its charm. But but Dan O'Bannon worked on that film and I think help me out here.
00:13:54:15 - 00:13:59:05
Clark
But he went from that. Did he go from that to Dune? Is do I have that correct?
00:13:59:05 - 00:14:12:10
Cullen
I think so. From my understanding, he went from that to trying to get alien made and then when that was not happening, went to Dune. Right. But it wasn't it wasn't alien as we know it. It was, it was quite.
00:14:12:10 - 00:14:13:17
Clark
A totally and that's where Yeah.
00:14:13:17 - 00:14:18:19
Cullen
Totally different story and, and then Yeah. So then he went to Jodorowsky's Dune which which.
00:14:18:19 - 00:14:19:07
Clark
Which film.
00:14:19:07 - 00:14:22:12
Cullen
History. Yeah. Does did not happen famously fell through.
00:14:22:15 - 00:14:29:04
Clark
Famously fell through but super important while he was there he met H.R. Giger.
00:14:29:16 - 00:14:30:10
Cullen
Yes. Yeah.
00:14:30:10 - 00:14:46:00
Clark
And I think Digger was doing some design work for Dune. It's a nightmare. Oh, I want to call something out to. I just want to call something out real quick. I forgot about this when I first mentioned him. So do you know where Dan O'Bannon's from, where he was born and raised in Saint Louis, Missouri.
00:14:47:08 - 00:14:50:06
Cullen
So we got to Missouri and we've got a Canadian working on Alien.
00:14:50:06 - 00:15:12:16
Clark
There you go. Hometown boy makes good. Okay. Yeah. So I just had to because not a lot of people in film are from Saint Louis, Missouri, anyway, so. Yeah. So he so he meets Eager. They do some work and O'Bannon is blown away by his work which obviously is just you can't overstate how vital his design work is on this film.
00:15:12:22 - 00:15:14:23
Clark
Oh, yeah. I mean, it's just it's, it's.
00:15:15:01 - 00:15:16:04
Cullen
There's nothing else like it.
00:15:16:09 - 00:15:44:11
Clark
Yeah. And, and so. Right. So I think he comes back and, and he's got this script and he who else did he work with. There was somebody else that he worked with on the script and now it's Ronald just right. So those two, they're working on the script and it ends up getting in the hands of the newly formed production company Brandywine, which is Jordan Carroll, David Gaylor and Walter Hill.
00:15:44:19 - 00:16:10:18
Clark
Walter Hill, this guy of those three that I know most about or most of like from his especially his like seventies work. Yeah. DRIVER Yeah. And the get away he he wrote a lot of stuff. He directed some scenes. Yeah. And Southern Comfort was actually the film that I think he went to direct instead of this one. So you kind of was slated direct to direct this film once Brandywine picked it up.
00:16:11:06 - 00:16:24:17
Clark
But, but yeah, just to go back. So I think that's where like that, at least according to them, the three men at Brandywine were like O'Bannon. I don't know, man. This the script is not super great. They love.
00:16:24:20 - 00:16:25:02
Cullen
The.
00:16:25:05 - 00:16:34:04
Clark
Idea of, like, the trespasser. And and that was like, kind of the idea that really grab them. So at least according to them, they totally rewrote the script.
00:16:34:06 - 00:16:49:22
Cullen
Yeah. So what I understand about that, too, is that it was there was none of the none of the truckers in space kind of there was a bunch of different contentious kind of like, yeah, because of this. But for me it's hard to know. Yeah. That the the truckers and space stuff wasn't really a part of O'Bannon's script.
00:16:49:22 - 00:16:56:23
Cullen
That O'Bannon's script was a lot more kind of 2001 esque where, you know, everything was super clean and science fiction and.
00:16:57:02 - 00:16:57:11
Clark
Yeah.
00:16:57:14 - 00:17:09:03
Cullen
They said, we need the audience to relate to these characters. And so they kind of made them like these blue collar, you know, the tow freighter people that that work in space and hate their jobs.
00:17:09:11 - 00:17:38:01
Clark
Well, that and that's huge And I think that's that that decision to do that I think speaks to how it kind of used different language but how it's kind of relate people, even though it's in this different universe, it feels grounded and doesn't feel so removed. And I think, you know, around this time to a really important decision was made just and just to try to like improve it's like sell ability or you know that any of the characters genders could be anything.
00:17:38:01 - 00:17:52:13
Clark
And so this is where we start to have this flexibility, where Ripley could be played by a woman who, of course, ends up being played by Sigourney Weaver, ends up being, you know, sends her career into the stratosphere and a very.
00:17:52:13 - 00:17:54:11
Cullen
Iconic character for her to.
00:17:54:15 - 00:18:18:10
Clark
Like. Super iconic character. Yeah. So it's kind of like an interesting little bit of an origin story there. You know, I'm always intrigued by this thought, too. You know, Ridley Scott only had one film under his belt before this. Now he did a lot of commercials and his like like, I mean, huge in commercials. I think he's still like Scott free writer.
00:18:18:10 - 00:18:29:01
Clark
There's an arm of that. That's a commercial arm. Yeah. Like both he and his brother did a ton of commercials, obviously. And Ridley Scott shot the 1984 Apple commercial, which is kind of considered a.
00:18:29:01 - 00:18:30:02
Cullen
Very famous one. Yeah.
00:18:30:02 - 00:18:50:12
Clark
Yeah. One of the best commercials ever shot. So he came from that space. He did the Duelists. And I don't know if you've seen the Duelists, but boy, I couldn't imagine a movie more different than this one, frankly. Yeah. So I'm always kind of, you know, it's almost know in a certain sense. It's kind of surprising that Ridley, you wouldn't expect the director of the Duel as to jump to Alien.
00:18:50:12 - 00:19:13:06
Clark
First of all, just interesting then to have done such a great job with Alien. And then you look at how much alien shaped Ridley's career after that. Yeah, it's just kind of I just wonder, like what? You know, it's almost kind of a funny, like, parallel universe kind of thought experiment. Like what? What do you think Ridley would have been like as a director had he never touched Alien?
00:19:13:09 - 00:19:14:04
Clark
Yeah, Yeah.
00:19:14:14 - 00:19:35:15
Cullen
And he's almost I'm pretty sure he also, almost after signing on, almost left for something else at one point, not in production, but before production had started up. I think they had started started kind of doing the preproduction. And then there was another offer and he was like, Well, if we don't get this underway within like, you know, a few months, I'm probably going to go to that.
00:19:35:16 - 00:19:54:15
Cullen
Yeah. And I don't think it was like a threat, but I think it was more just like, I don't really want to work for it. Yeah. And then something happened and he wound up staying, But, but yeah, I think it's a good I mean, yeah, you can see this movie. It's in all of most of Ridley's work. I mean, especially he did Blade Runner a few years after this.
00:19:55:23 - 00:20:22:14
Cullen
And you can see that like there's a lot of theories that they take place in the same universe, even which I don't really think so, but I know they like little references and jokes. But, but yeah, I mean, this is to me it's it's a movie that really shows that like the power of production design and cinematography. I mean, I mean, again and, and we're probably going to compare a little bit as well with aliens just because they are kind of the two most popular.
00:20:22:14 - 00:20:47:02
Cullen
And there's a lot of people before aliens and a lot of people for Alien. So there's kind of a a divide there. I also prefer alien to aliens, but I really do like aliens. Yeah, but I think that that's one part of it that like and I love the production design of aliens too, but if you look at even just like the cinematography in Aliens, it's it's just it's a lot more brightly lit.
00:20:48:07 - 00:21:15:08
Cullen
I mean, it's lit more so like an action movie. Whereas Alien is purely horror in the way that it's it's you know, Derek Van Lot did such a fantastic job and incorporating these lights and incorporating this kind of horrifying ship into the way that he lit every scene and that every light is motivated from some part of this kind of technical hellhole, which I think is really, really fascinating.
00:21:15:23 - 00:21:52:01
Cullen
So, yeah, I think I think it's just kind of incredible that Derek Vincent kind of incorporated all of these. Um, you know, all the lights are motivated by the fact that there's this ship is this sort of industrial hellhole and is very imposing, and it's very clear that all of these aspects of production, from the production designer to the cinematographer, the direction to the costumes, you know, every single piece of that was working in unison to to create this vision, which, I mean, that's not like a surprising or uncommon thing in the film industry, but I think it's uncommon for it to be done this well.
00:21:52:12 - 00:21:52:21
Clark
Yeah.
00:21:52:21 - 00:22:11:02
Cullen
Where where you see, you know, especially once the ship self-destruct is kind of going off and there's the yellow lights and all that, and you've got Sigourney Weaver kind of running through the halls with the flamethrower. And it's like it just is so clear that everything was so perfectly thought out in terms of like how this movie's going to look.
00:22:11:08 - 00:22:13:22
Cullen
I know Ridley Scott did some extensive storyboards.
00:22:15:04 - 00:22:16:01
Clark
Right? Right.
00:22:16:01 - 00:22:35:11
Cullen
And so it's very clear that, yeah, that that from the get go, you know, when they're building the sets, when they were designing the light, when they were choosing the, you know, the shots and things like that, that, that they had thought through all these things, which I think is really remarkable. And I think it is why this movie looks so good and feels so, so good and scary.
00:22:36:00 - 00:22:36:09
Cullen
Um.
00:22:36:23 - 00:22:56:12
Clark
Well, it's I mean, in just a count I mean, the caliber of talent they have, first of all, I mean, I think it's just a, just a rare occasion where you get, you know, you have Ridley Scott, which of course, you know, he's proven himself to be one of the most art direction production design oriented directors, you know, alive working.
00:22:57:20 - 00:23:20:19
Clark
He's so focused on the photography of a film, and I think he cast the right actors in this film to allow him to focus on that. And, you know, you got to remember to, at least according to Ridley Scott, you know, this film originally had a budget of 4.2 million. And so, like you said, he storyboarded the entire thing, which he does himself, and he's a pretty damn good artist, and he is able to storyboard quite well.
00:23:21:04 - 00:23:49:06
Clark
He brings his storyboards in and they double the budget on the film to 8.2. So this film was made on a budget of $8.2 million and I think Wikipedia says 11. I think they're throwing in some marketing budget there. Yeah, but even for 79 $8.2 million for a film like this is Peanuts Man. And, you know, so you've got Ridley Scott, you've got H.R. Giger designing not just the alien, which of course, is iconic.
00:23:49:06 - 00:24:17:18
Clark
I mean, I don't think, you know, there's hardly a person in the world literally anywhere that wouldn't recognize the alien or xenomorph design. You have Ron Cobb and Chris Foss doing other kind of art concept artwork. I think Ron Cobb did a lot of that, like human spaceships and things. H.R. Giger did not just the alien, but he did the alien ship, the space jockey and the planet The Planetoid.
00:24:17:18 - 00:24:18:20
Cullen
26 Yeah.
00:24:18:20 - 00:24:35:12
Clark
And just that that, that and just H.R. Giger's designs are so kind of viscerally disturbing. It's such a strange combination of of scary and sexual and violent.
00:24:35:15 - 00:24:41:22
Cullen
And they, they really ingeniously kind of use the budget in the way that they design the sets to where it's like.
00:24:41:22 - 00:24:42:05
Clark
Yeah.
00:24:42:10 - 00:25:11:10
Cullen
You know, the Nostromo, for example, is is really just primarily two hallways. Yeah, it's the kind of like underbelly hallways that have the, you know, the grates and things like that, and then the upper and upper ones that are all like kind of cushiony. But what they've done is they've basically had it's almost like a U-shape so that you can film, you know, in all these different angles and make it look like it's 60 different parts of the ship while simultaneously really it's just one, you know, one little, little hallway.
00:25:12:10 - 00:25:27:09
Cullen
And so you'll once you've seen the movie enough, you kind of start to recognize like, oh, that's the exact same hallway. She was just coming down. Now she's just walking down the other way. But it's still like, I think it's such a brilliant use of such a small budget.
00:25:27:09 - 00:25:27:15
Clark
Yeah.
00:25:27:23 - 00:25:49:06
Cullen
And like you said, like, even in, you know, adjusted for inflation and kind of the the crazy budgets that movies get these days, this is still quite a small budget film. I mean, I don't have it right off the top of my head. Um, but I don't know what Star is. So Star Wars was made for 11 million.
00:25:50:10 - 00:26:11:11
Cullen
And so I think that and I don't know if that again, that's probably including marketing as well. But if you think about that, I mean, Star Wars, to me the charm of Star Wars was that it does sort of seem low budget. You know, it kind of had like a little like a bit of a homemade appeal to it, whereas this doesn't the budget doesn't show in this movie at all.
00:26:11:11 - 00:26:36:12
Cullen
This this feels like a movie that was made for, you know, 50 million. Yeah. Upwards of and I think, again, that just that that is all down to the way that people use the budget and how Ridley Scott decided to use this this money and kind of lead this movie to be really, really really just fantastically efficient in its production.
00:26:36:22 - 00:26:45:20
Cullen
And I think that that's kind of a a word I would use for it is that it's incredibly efficient. It doesn't seem like there was much waste or excess. Um.
00:26:46:09 - 00:27:09:06
Clark
Well, there certainly isn't in the storytelling, right? Yeah. I mean, that's one of the things is that, you know, it's the story is, is really it gets right to the point. Does it read beat around the bush It's I mean it's basically it's a horror film, right? It's like the haunted house kind of, you know, scary, scary dark house movie and yeah, I mean, just imagine.
00:27:09:06 - 00:27:53:16
Clark
Just imagine this exact same plot. Just imagine this exact same story. But it's like no production design, boring alien design or monster design. And there's a million of these films. Yeah. Every every other every other horror film is this film without all of these things that we've already discussed that really. And so it's, you know, when I think of a film that illustrates, too, if you're a fan of cinema or if you're a wannabe filmmaker or you are a filmmaker and you're looking, you know, just kind of to be reminded of the power of the tools available, available to you as a filmmaker looking at this film and just realizing how much story you can
00:27:53:16 - 00:28:24:22
Clark
convey through production design and art direction, It's just mind blowing to me. And and so I'm always blown away by that. But I think we've we've like talked talked about that we could go on and on like you said, we could make it such a long. But let's give a little love to the cast too, though, because yeah, because you know, if it weren't I think if it weren't for the cast, if it weren't for these really like uniformly excellent performances, in my opinion, across the board.
00:28:25:05 - 00:28:45:23
Clark
You know, Ridley wouldn't have been able to focus on the photography and the production design. And I think that's part of his secret of his success, is that he cast really good people. He didn't have to worry about them. They gave great performances and he was able to do his thing. I mean, it sounds like to me Sigourney Weaver is your favorite.
00:28:45:23 - 00:29:01:21
Cullen
Oh, 100%. I mean, I actually I just realized that I mentioned Sigourney Weaver in our last episode. Oh, yeah. We were talking as they. DUNAWAY And then I hadn't even planned to do this yet, but it's gone so wrong. I mean, I don't know why Sigourney Weaver isn't in every movie. That was one of the notes that rewatching is.
00:29:02:06 - 00:29:20:10
Cullen
But like, I don't know why she and it's bizarre to me that for an actor of her caliber and how great she is in everything that she's in, that she and I know she's in Paul Schrader's new movie, which is is. But again, like, I'm just really shocked that she's not in more um.
00:29:20:13 - 00:29:31:09
Clark
Well, I mean, well, okay, I can see how you would want her to be in more for sure. I get it, but. Well, isn't she? And isn't she going to be in Cameron's, like, further Avatar films.
00:29:31:09 - 00:29:33:02
Cullen
Yes, she is in those. Yeah. Yeah.
00:29:33:12 - 00:29:45:16
Clark
So there's that and I don't think you can get much bigger than that. Right? That's going to be some of the biggest budget, most you know. But she's 73, so come on, you got to give her some time to spend her life right? Yeah.
00:29:45:18 - 00:29:46:01
Cullen
Yeah.
00:29:47:09 - 00:30:08:19
Clark
But she and but I feel like she I mean, look, you know, growing up in the eighties, I feel like I remember her being almost everywhere in the eighties, and maybe she slowed down, but, you know, she does Alien Now, before that, she had been in just a couple of films and I think it had really tiny. I mean, I think her first film was Annie Hall.
00:30:09:04 - 00:30:25:20
Clark
She's almost like a like background or something, right? I mean, she's extremely small and then alien, as we all know, made her a star. And then Ghostbusters just a few years later. I mean, I remember that from my childhood. She was like, you know, that was huge performance in that film.
00:30:26:12 - 00:30:31:18
Cullen
And she did Aliens. And then, of course, she was in the first for Alien. Yeah, yeah.
00:30:31:19 - 00:30:38:09
Clark
And she was in the first four aliens and she's in Ghostbusters two. And I remember going to see Gorillas in the Mist in 88.
00:30:38:10 - 00:30:39:15
Cullen
Oh yeah, in the theater.
00:30:40:06 - 00:31:03:10
Clark
I remember seeing that at a theater. So and she's Galaxy Quest is another one of my favorite performances of hers. I think that's a 99. I mean, she is. And here she is. You know, she did two films in 2022. She was in Ghostbusters Afterlife, which is, I think, just a cameo in 21. So she's around and she's going to be in the next two Avatar films.
00:31:03:10 - 00:31:04:02
Clark
But I don't know.
00:31:04:02 - 00:31:05:14
Cullen
Then I that's the new. SCHRADER Yeah.
00:31:06:06 - 00:31:18:23
Clark
That's going to be like the, like CGI version of version of her. I guess it's like a mocap performance, is it? But still, you know. Yeah, but, but yeah, I mean, come on, dude. She's 73. You know, maybe she's like, I guess, I mean.
00:31:18:23 - 00:31:35:21
Cullen
Is more and more. So I just I'm surprised that in the, you know, like, especially in the shoot, like she just seems like she so great would be Yeah. Like, like a a bigger than an Angelina Jolie or something because she's just so, so versatile and such a talented actress.
00:31:36:00 - 00:31:50:23
Clark
And I think it's a credit to her. I mean, I just don't think that she's played that game. You know, she's just not been the tabloid shade. I mean, look, she's been married to the same man since like 84. Yeah. She doesn't have all of these scandals. And wacky.
00:31:50:23 - 00:31:52:09
Cullen
Apparently, she's a joy to work with.
00:31:52:14 - 00:32:09:00
Clark
Yeah. Yeah. So so I think that's a big part of why, you know, she's just not on the cover of every. Well, I don't even know if they really have Enquirer magazines nowadays. Now it's, you know, Instagram and Tik Tok and everything but TMZ. But yeah, I just think that she stays off of that stuff.
00:32:09:00 - 00:32:09:20
Cullen
But yeah, but.
00:32:10:01 - 00:32:28:13
Clark
There's other really good performances here, too. I mean, so one of my favorite people is in this film and his I think he's fantastic in it. I think he's fantastic in almost everything. And he character actor, to be sure, although he did have a lead role in Paris, Texas. But Harry Dean Stanton, you got to give it up to Harry Dean Stanton Yeah.
00:32:29:00 - 00:32:29:09
Cullen
I mean.
00:32:30:00 - 00:33:01:22
Clark
I feel like Harry Dean was like 55 somehow when he made this film in 79 and and somehow lived to 2017. I feel like he was already ancient in this movie. I kept seeing him in movie after movie after movie, I remember. So there was a like a like a I don't even know what you call this. It's a documentary film about a couple rock bands that I think was made in the early 2000s, I think, called Dig.
00:33:02:11 - 00:33:22:01
Clark
And it was a documentary that followed two bands that were like friends and then kind of had a falling out and it was the Dante Warhols, if you've ever heard of them, and the Brian Jonestown Massacre and Andy Warhol got pretty big and had a lot of hits, and so you might have heard of them. Brian Jonestown Massacre, maybe not so much.
00:33:23:03 - 00:33:53:17
Clark
They didn't have as much commercial success anyway, so this documentary is following these bands around there in L.A. and they're trying to get big and everything. And I was so there's a scene in that film where there is like this just like a one of the band members or one of the people at the party were just like filming everybody getting wasted right in this apartment, in this party with these two rock bands and the camera like Pans by this bedroom.
00:33:54:10 - 00:34:01:09
Clark
And Harry Dean Stanton is just sitting there partying with these people, and you're just like, Your dude is everywhere.
00:34:01:13 - 00:34:03:00
Cullen
He's like, What the hell is he doing there?
00:34:03:02 - 00:34:04:17
Clark
He's like 80 years old.
00:34:05:05 - 00:34:06:15
Cullen
And it's hilarious.
00:34:06:15 - 00:34:23:09
Clark
Partying with these two like rock bands. And it was and it was just so it wasn't like he wasn't the focus. Nobody even, like, paid any attention or did or said anything. But you know what I mean? It was just somebody kind of panning the camera. I had to like, pause it and and be like, Wait a minute, that's Harry Dean Stanton.
00:34:23:13 - 00:34:28:12
Clark
Holy crap. But I don't know. I just want to say I just want to give him some love because I think.
00:34:28:12 - 00:34:29:23
Cullen
Oh, he's great, he's fantastic.
00:34:29:23 - 00:34:37:19
Clark
He was amazing. I think he's amazing in this film. The guy is a legend, an icon. And so anyway, I just but I.
00:34:37:19 - 00:34:39:21
Cullen
Also love Yaphet Kotto on this.
00:34:39:22 - 00:34:40:19
Clark
Yep, he's great.
00:34:40:22 - 00:35:21:15
Cullen
Um, and of course, Ian in home. Yeah. Who was this? He. He was known in England but had kind of this kind of made him a name in the U.S.. Tom Skerritt, Of course. Yeah. Ron Cartwright There's. Yeah. I mean. John Hurt. Yeah. Oh, John Hurt as well. Yeah. There's one of these cases where you just have these really, really, really talented actors and you can just tell, like during the dinner scenes and, you know, when they're just all kind of talking over each other, but they're, they're just a really, really strong, strongly performed cat and shows you the value of of getting incredible performers.
00:35:22:03 - 00:35:38:23
Clark
And and I just I want to go back to Ian because I think his performance couple of things here. First of all, I think, you know, we go back to the writing process. We talk about Dan Bannon and the kind of the the the nugget in his script that got this film kind of on the track to be made.
00:35:38:23 - 00:36:04:13
Clark
Was that was that the alien like put it you put an egg inside, you effectively like raping its prey and then you would have another like the alien would like explode out of you, Right. Yeah. But I think when, when Brandywine got it and, and were rewriting it, they that's where they introduced this idea of the android that would be on the ship.
00:36:04:22 - 00:36:14:14
Clark
And that was such a stroke of genius because you know, the plot doesn't have a lot of, you know, of, of mechanization, you know. Yeah. It's not.
00:36:15:02 - 00:36:15:20
Cullen
Moving pieces.
00:36:15:20 - 00:36:35:00
Clark
Yeah, yeah. Not a lot of moving pieces. It's super straight, streamlined. But this one thing, though, adds so much, it adds so much texture and it's such a surprise. And it's a surprise from such a different direction. Right. Because you're focused on alien, alien, alien, alien, alien. And you kind of get a sense it's like, okay, this is the corporate guy.
00:36:35:00 - 00:36:53:23
Clark
This is the guy who's got his own agenda. He's not out there to, like, help or save the crew. He's obviously got an ulterior motive. But when he gets his head knocked out, like when he tries to kill Ripley and he tries to kill Ripley in such an odd and strange way. Yeah. That stands out to you.
00:36:54:04 - 00:37:06:22
Cullen
So. Oh, my God. I remember when me and my friend you always do that with Mag is like, not literally like God just always roll up the It was be like any time you fall asleep at a sleepover or something. One of us with her, all of them.
00:37:07:16 - 00:37:08:22
Clark
Oh, my gosh, dude, it.
00:37:08:22 - 00:37:09:11
Cullen
Sounds like a.
00:37:09:16 - 00:37:13:02
Clark
Joke because it's not even an effective way to kill somebody.
00:37:13:02 - 00:37:14:18
Cullen
No, but it's just so robotic.
00:37:14:20 - 00:37:34:14
Clark
In such it, right? It doesn't make any sense. So just for those for those of you who haven't seen it a while, what he is, he rolls up a magazine and like and like, sticks it, try to stick it in Ripley's mouth while she's laying down. And it's like, well, she could still breathe through her nose. So it's not like it's and it's not in her throat.
00:37:34:14 - 00:38:06:13
Clark
It's not choking her. And it just and and it's funny because in performance, he goes from seeming like very human, right to seeming so robotic like, but it works like Yeah. And, and it's just and when he gets his head knocked off, you're just like I mean, I remember watching like that's something that stands out so much to me and especially when they, like, reconnect him and he's talking and it's like all his blood is like that milk.
00:38:06:13 - 00:38:07:17
Cullen
The milk. Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:07:18 - 00:38:26:03
Clark
And his voice is kind of got this effervescence like to it. They've, you know, they've, they've, they've manipulated the audio there. And I remember honestly that almost being like more creepy and that image standing sticking with me even more than the alien. Honest.
00:38:26:04 - 00:38:27:00
Cullen
Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:27:05 - 00:38:28:09
Clark
I was just like, no.
00:38:28:09 - 00:38:36:02
Cullen
And it's such a, you know, it's such a that ingenious practical effect of just had he stick his head through the, through the table.
00:38:36:02 - 00:38:39:15
Clark
That's part of it. But if you notice, if you notice they do have a mole.
00:38:40:04 - 00:38:42:03
Cullen
Yeah, they Do when she's trying to put it up.
00:38:42:03 - 00:38:45:02
Clark
Yeah. So they do have a mold and it looks horrible.
00:38:45:13 - 00:38:47:17
Cullen
It does in the cut. Does not do it justice.
00:38:47:17 - 00:39:14:21
Clark
No. And it's like you can tell they knew that it didn't look good and they tried to keep it on screen as long as possible, and they covered it with as much of that milk blood as they possibly could. So you wouldn't notice. But if I may, and this is one of the things that happens on $8 million budget, apparently the story is, is that they you know, obviously they took like a life cast, a real mold of Ian's face and head and it was they overdrive it or something like what sort just shrunk it shrunk Yeah.
00:39:15:00 - 00:39:25:01
Clark
So it doesn't look anything like him. I mean, like not at all. But, but the film has done so well and you buy everything else to such an extent that you don't even care, you know?
00:39:25:01 - 00:39:30:22
Cullen
Yeah, it's kind of just a little laugh. And then you then immediately after, it's like, Oh my God, this is really uncomfortable.
00:39:30:23 - 00:39:48:10
Clark
I feel like the film earns it. It's like, Hey, you know what you get? You get like one area, you know? Yeah. And in hindsight to I think like there are, there are a couple spots where the alien seems a little like you can see a little bit of the guy in the suit in there.
00:39:48:15 - 00:39:51:05
Cullen
You can tell the suit was not easy to move around in.
00:39:51:21 - 00:39:52:19
Clark
Yeah. And they like.
00:39:52:19 - 00:40:02:00
Cullen
Especially I mean even in the, in the when, when Dallas is in the vent and it just I love that it just kind of puts its arms out. You can't really jump but it just kind of goes for a because.
00:40:02:08 - 00:40:21:00
Clark
Yeah and it but but it's you know it's kind of like with Jaws, right? It's like with Jaws, the mechanical shark sucks. It doesn't work. So you have to show it very briefly. It's same kind of now. Now, this doesn't suck. Don't get me wrong, the alien design is extraordinary. I mean, especially in the head and everything, but.
00:40:21:03 - 00:40:34:03
Clark
But it was still it was like, well, it's a guy in a suit is how they had to execute it. It's not like they had CGI and they didn't have budget for a Stan Winston puppet and things, which I think is what they I think is what they did in Aliens. Aliens.
00:40:34:20 - 00:40:35:18
Cullen
And Winston did all that.
00:40:35:19 - 00:40:36:20
Clark
And Winston worked on.
00:40:36:20 - 00:40:41:07
Cullen
That and they had a lot more variable suits, flexible suit, so people could.
00:40:41:07 - 00:40:41:22
Clark
Run a whole.
00:40:41:22 - 00:40:46:04
Cullen
Difference. And things like cold different, which I think that it works in the movie's favor because.
00:40:46:04 - 00:40:46:14
Clark
I still.
00:40:46:14 - 00:40:54:03
Cullen
Think that of any of the alien movies and the Prometheus movies and all that, this is still the scariest one of all of them.
00:40:54:11 - 00:41:00:00
Clark
And I think it's the best iteration of the face or of the head of the alien, because it actually changes the.
00:41:00:02 - 00:41:05:05
Cullen
Yeah, the because aliens, it's not as smooth, it's rougher. There's like almost a rib element to the head.
00:41:05:10 - 00:41:08:10
Clark
The dome changes. Yeah, all kinds of things.
00:41:08:11 - 00:41:09:05
Cullen
But I think that.
00:41:09:05 - 00:41:10:03
Clark
This is the is.
00:41:10:05 - 00:41:13:22
Cullen
This, this is the scariest that the alien is in any of these movies.
00:41:14:09 - 00:41:15:04
Clark
Because it's the and I.
00:41:15:04 - 00:41:36:02
Cullen
Think it's also the, the, the, the benefit too is that it's because it's, it's got this like mystique and unknown aspect where people have no idea what they're dealing with. And that's the part of the genius too is that the alien, if you're actually watching the movie, the alien doesn't actually kill its first victim other than the chest first are seen until over halfway through the movie, Right?
00:41:36:05 - 00:41:42:03
Cullen
It's about I think I think it's about 59 minutes when they're actually first going around and trying to find it with the neck.
00:41:42:03 - 00:41:43:17
Clark
Is is it Harry Dean that dies.
00:41:43:17 - 00:41:55:10
Cullen
First with the. Yeah, yeah. He gets in there. He's in that big and I but I also I mean that's another element of production design too is just like that scene when he gets killed. Just like why is there water dripping down on this spaceship?
00:41:55:15 - 00:41:57:02
Clark
Why are there chains, wire.
00:41:57:02 - 00:42:16:09
Cullen
Chains so unbelievably evocative and hellish? And yeah, it's really, really, really like I mean, now I just always want to put like, make this movie of there's one adjective for it. It's wet. Yeah. I mean, it's it's just everything, but it works so well. Everything's just so wet and has this it's very textured and just grimy and gross.
00:42:16:09 - 00:42:38:13
Cullen
And I love that. It's it's just again, it just goes back to the whole production design and worldbuilding element of it. And it's I mean, again, like we said, I don't I'm not a big franchise guy and stuff like that. But if someone and this is one of the things that I wrote in my notes, but if I was asked by some big studio like, you know what you direct any movie you want, but it has to be within a preexisting franchise.
00:42:38:13 - 00:42:42:03
Cullen
I would 100 times out of 100 times say that I wouldn't want to do an alien movie.
00:42:42:17 - 00:42:43:14
Clark
Um, yeah, it would.
00:42:43:14 - 00:43:00:20
Cullen
Because this is just yeah, because there's just a, there's so much that you can do. Um, I think that it's such a perfect blend where it's like, you don't really need to add the horror because the, the idea of, of this universe is scary enough that it, it really, it all just works so well together.
00:43:01:17 - 00:43:21:12
Clark
It would be tough. I feel like it would be really difficult. And obviously there has been a big challenge trying to follow this up because it's like, yeah, yeah, I mean, you imagine just a met. I know it's like you can't really, but you know, imagine a totally like virgin naive audience. You have no idea. You've not seen the alien, you don't know what its form is, you have no idea.
00:43:22:06 - 00:43:42:12
Clark
And you've never seen any of this production design, the ships, the planetoid, you know, none of this stuff. I mean, look, just look at how compelling the film is to watch after, you know, everything about it, after you know, what the alien looks like and what it does, you know, all these things. And it's there's still so much visual density that it's so compelling to watch.
00:43:42:17 - 00:44:04:14
Clark
I mean, now imagine watching this for the first time in a theater. You're an audience in 1979. You can't replicate that. Like now. There have been so many films now that have the Alien or Xenomorph, you know, in it to some varying degree. Right? And we all know what it does that, you know, what do you do with that?
00:44:05:16 - 00:44:17:16
Clark
So, you know, it's like as fun as it would be. And trust me if someone offered me a budget and said, go make an alien movie, I'd sure as heck try. But boy, I would be really put to the test to think of how can I make.
00:44:18:07 - 00:44:40:07
Cullen
Strangely enough, one of the best pieces of media I think from this franchise is and one of the ones that actually used the elements of Alien, I think fantastically was and I don't I mean, I have like video game consoles. I've played video games all my life, but I'm not really a big I wouldn't consider myself a huge gamer in that sense.
00:44:40:07 - 00:44:45:10
Cullen
I don't I don't play a ton of them, but a few years ago, this game called Alien Isolation came out.
00:44:45:10 - 00:44:45:18
Clark
Oh yeah.
00:44:46:09 - 00:45:04:01
Cullen
And my God, is that I think that I genuinely think that that's one of the best games ever made. And it they did something. I think they did something really smart, which is that it's it's the plot of the game is about Ripley's daughter trying to basically find out what happened to her mom.
00:45:04:07 - 00:45:06:00
Clark
No so she was going to played it.
00:45:06:20 - 00:45:22:23
Cullen
I won't yeah I won't spoil it but yeah so she's she's she's basically it's about her which in that is something that I think is really smart because it's not something it feels shoehorned in. It feels like that would make sense as a movie and as a plot or as something a character would do. Of course, this character is going to be like, Well, what the hell happened to my mom?
00:45:23:06 - 00:46:03:20
Cullen
Yeah. And so and you know, what they did in the game is that you you have all of the kind of esthetic of of alien. You've got the massive ships that are dimly lit and industrial, but you also have those like cushy kind of very seventies looking, you know, comfort spaces like the kitchens and things like that. Um, and so and I've never seen a game based off of a movie that has better captured the feeling of like there's moments in that game where you're under a table and the alarms are wailing and there's smoke filling a room and you can hear the alien crawling above you in event and you have to turn off
00:46:03:20 - 00:46:15:20
Cullen
your flashlight and you've got to hold a button to hold your breath. And it's like, I've never played a game that has better encapsulated. I've also very rarely have I played a game where I've been like, okay, I'm going to put that away tonight because I'm my heart is.
00:46:15:20 - 00:46:18:12
Clark
Sounding too stressful. Yeah, So it's fantastic.
00:46:18:12 - 00:46:50:08
Cullen
And I think that it's it it proves that there is still, you know, a lot of value in in that world, whereas you see something like Star Wars or things like that where it seems like they can never really get out of this cycle of kind of telling the same story over and over again. Um, I think that there's a pretty nice, you know, not backlog, but I think that there's, there's a lot of things that if people are brave enough, if studios are brave enough to put the money towards doing some different stuff, which is ultimately what Prometheus was, right?
00:46:50:08 - 00:47:25:06
Cullen
I mean, Prometheus was something that had had, you know, of course, existed in the same universe of Alien and had connections of like that. This was sort of a prequel that would lead to the events of aliens. But other than that, it's got next to nothing to do with it. There's no alien creature in in Prometheus. And yet I thought that one, you know, when it came out and I've watched it since, I still think it's not, you know, a perfect movie by any means and it's not has amazing as Alien but I've always enjoyed watching it when I have I mean it's always a movie that I've been like, you know what the world
00:47:25:06 - 00:47:36:14
Cullen
of this, this movie, the universe of this takes place. And it's just so fascinating that I'm kind of happy to to watch anything or read anything or play anything that takes place. Yeah, in that setting.
00:47:36:20 - 00:48:08:17
Clark
I usually am too. I'm sometimes disappointed that the potential is not realized, but yes. Yeah, but yeah. Yeah. And speaking of potential being realized, I mean, you know, I, I was surprised by this tiny little tidbit. You know, we talked about how small the budget was on this film. Mm. It made $185 million. Man. Yeah, I know. And, and back then, I mean, I don't know what that would be in 70, $79 to 20, $22, but I'm going to guess that that's probably over 500 million.
00:48:08:17 - 00:48:09:07
Clark
You know.
00:48:09:23 - 00:48:12:13
Cullen
Probably I mean I'm trying to with the math.
00:48:12:13 - 00:48:20:21
Clark
Yeah. I mean it's it's a total guess, but I'm going to I'm going to say at least 500, maybe 500 to $700 million. So, you know, huge hit.
00:48:22:04 - 00:48:28:15
Cullen
So be the four times the dollar in 1979 was worth $4 today. So yeah, it'd be over 500 million.
00:48:28:20 - 00:48:29:04
Clark
Yeah.
00:48:29:04 - 00:48:32:06
Cullen
Okay. Could be close. Close to close to 800 million which is.
00:48:33:07 - 00:48:33:20
Clark
Yes.
00:48:34:04 - 00:48:35:11
Cullen
I mean that's, that's, that's no.
00:48:35:12 - 00:48:35:21
Clark
Joke.
00:48:35:21 - 00:48:36:07
Cullen
But.
00:48:36:12 - 00:48:57:10
Clark
Yeah, that's a box office blowout. Yeah. And I don't know what I'd be curious to know what films that were it was competing with in 79. But and so it's no wonder, I mean that, that you know, that Ridley's career and Sigourney Weaver's career, especially those two exploded and that, you know, Alien became such a franchise and.
00:48:57:10 - 00:49:08:05
Cullen
The irony, too, is that there's that classic story about James Cameron wanting to make aliens and and the Fox executives not wanting him to do it, having no interest in doing a sequel to Alien. And then he.
00:49:08:17 - 00:49:10:12
Clark
Went, what was that story idea?
00:49:10:12 - 00:49:42:08
Cullen
So there's yeah, there's this twist, this story about after after I don't know why since it was such a success that they wouldn't have to make a sequel, but for some reason that the Fox executives had no interest in doing a sequel to Alien, I think that they were worried that if they did a sequel, that the budget would just be way too, because it's a, you know, large sci fi and um, and so when James Cameron did Ala Terminator, they obviously were very happy with that and said, You can pitch us any movie you want, it just can't be an alien sequel because I've been talking about how much you wanted to do on
00:49:42:23 - 00:49:43:18
Cullen
this and they had.
00:49:43:18 - 00:49:45:23
Clark
Even written a script he'd probably even or Yeah.
00:49:45:23 - 00:50:04:04
Cullen
They said, and they said, Yeah, they said Pitches, anything can't be an alien movie. And so he went in to a boardroom with all these executives and wrote on the chalkboard or on the whiteboard, he wrote Alien and then put a dollar sign after it. And that's how they got it. Got the name Aliens, and that was how he pitched it, and they decided to give it to him.
00:50:04:13 - 00:50:11:02
Clark
So interesting what was the budget on Aliens? Do we know? I want to see the aliens. Let's look that up real quick.
00:50:11:03 - 00:50:16:05
Cullen
Budget becomes 18.5 million. So honestly, not not that high either.
00:50:16:07 - 00:50:18:12
Clark
Yeah, that's actually not a lot of money.
00:50:18:12 - 00:50:24:00
Cullen
And then let's see what it got in in box office was 183 million approximately.
00:50:24:01 - 00:50:28:07
Clark
So actually less financially successful than the first.
00:50:28:15 - 00:50:30:05
Cullen
Yeah. Which is interesting.
00:50:30:05 - 00:50:57:22
Clark
Which is interesting. Wow. Huh. You know, I wouldn't have guessed that. But I think it does kind of show how how important it was that the idea was novel, that there were so many novel ideas. That's not in the story, but in these details of like the Android and the alien type and how the alien would, you know, would invade a person's body and burst out.
00:50:57:22 - 00:51:11:06
Clark
I mean, again, I just we take all these things for granted now. It's like, well, duh, that the chest bursts are seen as one of the most iconic scenes in all of cinema. And the alien itself is such an iconic design.
00:51:12:21 - 00:51:20:18
Cullen
So, yeah, I mean, I think that that's I think that would be in its favor is that it's, it's that alien had this advantage of being totally groundbreaking.
00:51:21:02 - 00:51:34:01
Clark
And it's still a better movie it's I yes I love aliens but this is a better movie. Ridley Scott knocks it out of the park. He was in his prime. He was in his hometown and Shepperton Studios and yeah, yeah, he just people always talk.
00:51:34:01 - 00:52:06:15
Cullen
About how how iconic the you know, all the lines are from aliens, things like that, which they are. I mean there's a ton of quotable line man never get away from here, you bitch. Yeah, all those. All those great good. Don't get me wrong, aliens is is a lot of fun, but there is nothing to me that sums up the feeling of these movies more than a low camera darling backwards looking up at Sigourney Weaver as she slowly walks to the hallway with a flamethrower and steam juts out of vents, Designer alarms go off and there's the flash.
00:52:06:15 - 00:52:23:23
Clark
We talk about that. I want to talk about that for a second because, you know, of course, every time you watch a film, especially one with so much visual density, you see new things. I was so impressed with the camera and how it moves in this film. The camera is almost never stationary. There's very few very few static shots.
00:52:24:02 - 00:52:26:00
Cullen
Excellent mix of Dolby and handheld.
00:52:26:06 - 00:52:29:00
Clark
And there's a lot more handheld in this than I remembered.
00:52:29:09 - 00:52:31:03
Cullen
Mm hmm. Yeah, it's Odyssey. Yeah.
00:52:31:09 - 00:53:08:08
Clark
And and I think Ridley was operating for maybe 70% of the time that the film was being shot. It's kind of roughly what I've heard, but there is just it's so beautifully lyrically moving. It's just it and it's never, if you notice, it's never just moving or almost never just moving kind of on a single plane. There's always some kind of like flourish to it that it's like if we're going to pan over to the left, it's also going to kind of like pull back at the end of that movement.
00:53:08:08 - 00:53:11:18
Clark
There's always some kind of complexity.
00:53:11:18 - 00:53:20:18
Cullen
Or even just like the shots on a dolly in the hallway and, you know, you could just do a dolly shot in the hallway, but then it winds up wrapping around a corner for a second.
00:53:20:18 - 00:53:44:10
Clark
That's what I mean. There's like this there's always like a little touch to that, that that makes it feel more organic. Mm hmm. And that makes it feel part of what you're part of the space that you're in and see. And it works so fantastically well. And, you know, it's I would have loved to, you know, in maybe the DP here and again, we talked about Ridley.
00:53:44:16 - 00:54:07:08
Clark
You know, I'm sure Ridley had a lot to say about how it was shot. And he operated quite a bit, even himself. But I would have, you know, if our if the DP on this film and it is Derek Van Lente, he's the Canadian DP you know he only made a few other films and I think the other films he made, he only did some special effects like second unit type stuff or something.
00:54:08:20 - 00:54:21:02
Clark
I think this movie, Dragonslayer, which was a 1981 film I've never seen, it was either. And I think it's lost money. It was I think it was a Walt Disney film is the only I mean, he.
00:54:21:02 - 00:54:33:15
Cullen
Clearly had a had plenty of opportunity because both Cameron asked him to do aliens and Ridley Scott asked him to do Blade Runner. Yeah I think that I think that know Derek Valiant likely just wanted to go into commercials.
00:54:33:23 - 00:54:55:06
Clark
Which is where he came from. And that's, you know, Ridley Scott having come from commercials. He had actually worked with Derek. He brought Derek to shoot this. And it seems to me, as far as I can tell, because he he lived until 2010. He did. He just worked in I can only speculate as to why maybe he didn't like the long, strenuous shoots of feature films.
00:54:55:12 - 00:55:06:16
Clark
Yeah, you know, I'm sure he probably he was very successful and maybe, look, you can make a ton of money in commercials. I mean, it's huge money in commercials, especially during the day back then got, you know.
00:55:06:17 - 00:55:14:10
Cullen
I mean, even now, I know a lot of people who who are DPS, who they do features for the artistry of it and then the commercials to make money.
00:55:14:16 - 00:55:34:12
Clark
And it's an actor. Actors can be the same way. I mean, that was like bread and butter. I know. So many actors when I was in that game that that would be your bread and butter, man. You'd go and you'd do a couple commercials and you'd make enough to live on, and then you'd go and, you know, audition for feature films and, you know, legit TV and everything like that, that's kind of gone away.
00:55:34:13 - 00:55:55:03
Clark
That's a topic for a whole different day. But that's a lot of that has gone to the wayside as more and more commercials have gone nonunion. I don't know what's like what that's like on the crew side, but I'm, you know, any who. But I guess the point is, is that I would have loved to have seen a Derek Van Lente shot aliens.
00:55:55:03 - 00:56:03:12
Clark
That would have been very interesting. But yeah but that he and Ridley team up to really just shoot the crap out of this thing you know we had never talked about this.
00:56:03:12 - 00:56:04:01
Cullen
Beautiful.
00:56:04:06 - 00:56:26:15
Clark
Every shot is really extraordinary. We haven't talked about it, but I want to bring it up before before we run out of time, because I think it's a superb score. The music in This is Amazing. A Jerry Goldsmith composed the music for Alien and it's like, I mean, this is actually one of the soundtracks that I put on and just listen to for me too.
00:56:26:15 - 00:56:53:21
Cullen
I write this a lot. I mean, I yeah, it's like there was again when I said at the beginning of the episode that I've stolen so much from this movie and that like, even when I, I did a movie five years ago that was like an experimental movie about, you know, the sun disappearing. And I still wrote like an entire, you know, ten pages of the script to Jerry Goldsmith's alien score, even when it's got nothing to do with, you know, aliens or sci fi or anything like that.
00:56:53:21 - 00:57:20:11
Cullen
This movie somehow is still finding its way into my work. But then I think probably the only unfortunate aspect of the movie is that if you get and I would highly, highly recommend getting the soundtrack, you can listen to it on YouTube, you can budget on Apple Music or you can buy it. Yeah, but there's a really beautiful, sweet, like opening kind of overture that that Jerry Goldsmith composed that isn't used in the movie, but it's really, really spectacular.
00:57:20:11 - 00:57:29:07
Cullen
And it actually the cues from that were actually reused in Alien covenant. I think that's the first time that they were actually used on screen in an alien movie.
00:57:29:13 - 00:57:53:17
Clark
And you'll have to get to the complete edition just as a heads up if you do want to. Yeah. So what you're referring to is the main so that that is not included in the original soundtrack, which is only about 30 some odd minutes long. But there is a complete edition that's been released and that does have, I think, something like half a dozen or ten like alternate takes that not just for the main title but for some of the other tracks.
00:57:53:17 - 00:58:18:02
Clark
Yeah, And it's interesting because you kind of get a little bit of a glimpse into how some of those ideas changed at the direction of Ridley or Brandywine. But yeah, I mean, I think, you know, there's so many different aspects we can talk about, but just because you mentioned it, that main title, the the opening of this film is one of the coolest font treatments I've ever seen.
00:58:18:02 - 00:58:18:17
Cullen
Oh, yes.
00:58:19:00 - 00:58:21:00
Clark
I, I mean and it's what.
00:58:21:02 - 00:58:22:22
Cullen
Inspired so much to.
00:58:23:01 - 00:58:45:00
Clark
What's what blows my mind is that we basically have like a slow pan across, like a matte painting. It's all it is. There's like almost nothing going on, but it's a really nice matte painting. And we have this extraordinary alien. The fight is coming into view and it's just it's. It's just beauty.
00:58:45:03 - 00:58:46:04
Cullen
One line at a time.
00:58:46:10 - 00:58:46:19
Clark
Yeah.
00:58:47:03 - 00:59:10:01
Cullen
I mean, I've again, I've, I've again ripped from that so many times to like the amount of times that I've been doing a title sequence or something and I've been like, oh you know what, I'm going to have it come in, you know, one piece of the text at a time. And yeah, it's and then, you know, it's really there's so much iconography in this movie that I think people because it's such a classic that people don't really recognize.
00:59:10:14 - 00:59:11:02
Clark
You take it for.
00:59:11:02 - 00:59:13:18
Cullen
Granted. Inspiring It is. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:59:14:03 - 00:59:30:00
Clark
Yeah. I think it's an easy film to take for granted. And I think this just happens. It's like if you're the rolling Stones, right? It's like, Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, you're the Rolling Stones. Like, what could they do now? They've like, you know, it's like you've made Alien. Well, okay, like, you know, you just take it for granted.
00:59:30:00 - 00:59:41:21
Clark
And so it's all these things that have kind of turned into entered the social consciousness, you know, entered pop culture and kind of just become part of who we are, that you take it for granted how how extraordinary these ideas were.
00:59:42:05 - 01:00:01:12
Cullen
Yeah. But I mean, again, from from old Lego stop motion, stop motion, uh, movies to high school movies to, you know, my first feature that I don't think that I'm ever going to stop watching this movie. I don't think I'm ever going to stop being. Yeah, completely You know, enthralled by it and stealing as much as I can.
01:00:01:18 - 01:00:18:20
Clark
And I and I hope and I hope I hope that they that they're able to go back and do something interesting again with it. You know, Alien Covenant 2017, that was the last film in the series. And there have been other things. There have been comics and novels, like you said, video games, which I'm going to have to check out.
01:00:18:20 - 01:00:24:23
Clark
I, I actually own that alien isolation game that you've referred to, but I just haven't found time to play it yet.
01:00:25:01 - 01:00:27:02
Cullen
But it's very, very good. I would recommend it. Yeah.
01:00:27:07 - 01:00:46:12
Clark
Yeah, I'll have to check that out. But yeah, I mean, on that note, you know, it's it was so fun to watch this movie again as I'm like and excited that you picked it and like, there's, like this tiny little part of me that's like, should I choose aliens next? I don't.
01:00:46:12 - 01:00:49:03
Cullen
Know. I don't know. The Herzog podcast or the.
01:00:49:03 - 01:00:56:10
Clark
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll just go through the whole series. No, no, no. But, but, but anyway. But yeah. Any other last words from you on this?
01:00:56:10 - 01:01:02:03
Cullen
No know, I mean, I'm just glad that again, this is a really fun one to talk about, so I'm glad that we we got around. Yeah.
01:01:02:06 - 01:01:22:19
Clark
Yeah. I've really enjoyed watching it again. I'm going to have to. It was just released or not just but recently released on 4K so I'm like halfway tempted to pick it up on 4K and check that out. But anyway, we'll take everybody for hanging in there with us and going along on our alien adventure. We will catch you next time.
01:01:23:03 - 01:01:27:03
Cullen
Yeah. Bye bye.