Clark
Hello, everybody, and welcome once again to the Soldiers of Cinema Podcast. As always, I'm Clark Coffey, and with me is Mr. Cullen McFater. What's up?
00:00:21:17 - 00:00:26:11
Cullen
Hello. Hello. Nice to be back. It's been a little bit of a while since we last spoke.
00:00:26:14 - 00:00:32:10
Clark
It has. I mean, you know, potentially unbeknownst to the the listeners at home, I think, you know, those will.
00:00:32:10 - 00:00:34:05
Cullen
Come out consecutively. But yeah.
00:00:34:09 - 00:00:51:13
Clark
Like, hopefully we're trying to be you know, we're trying to be consistent with the releases, although we're not nailing that perfectly. But sometimes on the recording side, you know, we might have a little bit more or a little bit less time. This is this is we're both feeling maybe a little bit rusty. Hopefully that won't be obvious, but it has been why?
00:00:51:13 - 00:00:53:00
Cullen
First of the year, I think the first.
00:00:53:00 - 00:01:19:12
Clark
Yeah, the first. Yeah, it's the first of the year. And I've been off in Seattle shooting or working on a feature film. And Colin, you've been in post on doors so we've both been busy but we're excited to be back and today we're going to discuss my pick. 1980 Sevens 3:00 High, a film that I've loved ever since childhood.
00:01:19:12 - 00:01:47:21
Clark
I probably saw this film, you know, maybe 89, 90 something around there when it came out on cable TV. Cullen is the first time that you've ever seen the film, so I'm always excited when we have a setup like this because it's it's I'm always interested to get, you know, a modern person like your, you know, it's like a contemporary young person's perspective on a film that I grew up really loving and being inspired by when I was a kid.
00:01:47:21 - 00:02:08:12
Clark
So let's start right there. And there's a lot to talk about in this film. I just I want, you know, before I just want to say one quick thing as I almost feel like I want to like this is I've made up a genre for this film and films like this for me, in my own mind. And the genre is films that punch way above their weight.
00:02:08:16 - 00:02:14:22
Clark
Oh, I don't know what it is, but I love films that have no like no right? Being good.
00:02:14:22 - 00:02:15:23
Cullen
Yeah. They've got no business.
00:02:16:04 - 00:02:27:05
Clark
Like no business being good, but they are. And I feel like this film completely falls into that category. But let's, let's hear about your experience watching this film.
00:02:27:11 - 00:02:43:04
Cullen
Oh, I think I mean, first of all, just to kind of comment on your punching above the weight and stuff, that it's a very, I would say, like inspiring film in a way that this is the debut film of a guy who was 24 when he married. He was younger than the leads. Yeah.
00:02:43:04 - 00:02:47:12
Clark
And almost all that the main leads are almost all unknowns. Yeah. Yeah.
00:02:47:21 - 00:03:07:14
Cullen
And it's and it's not by any means. Again, we'll get into this more when we talk about kind of the direction of it. But it's not like flashy. It's not, you know, it's just really, really well-crafted and tightly made and just very smooth in a way. And I know that it's not it didn't, you know, do a huge numbers at the box office.
00:03:07:14 - 00:03:28:11
Cullen
It's it's more of a cult classic. I, I actually hadn't really heard of this until you had mentioned it to me a few years ago. Yeah. And now, of course, we're doing it in an episode. But, you know, I think what's what's great about it is it doesn't you know, it's a very simple, simple story. It's a really simply directed, simply, you know, just all around simple film.
00:03:28:13 - 00:04:02:14
Cullen
Yeah. But it proves that movies like that, that that, that you don't have to write some magnum opus complex thing to kind of have an impact. And it's still very impactful. It's still, you know, everything and it works really well. The actors all work off of each other really well. The, the, the tone of it. There's never any tonal inconsistencies, which can be something that's, you know, surprisingly difficult to nail is, yeah, tone and film, making sure that that, you know, even though this movie does have some relatively not serious moments in terms of like you're scared or your your you're sad or anything like that.
00:04:02:14 - 00:04:16:11
Cullen
But but there's definitely these these you know, there are more kind of adult moments. Yeah. Yeah. There's there's there's these bits in there that but it never feels out of place. It's never like you're never sitting there going like, okay, this is now the movie has shifted tones and.
00:04:16:14 - 00:04:17:16
Clark
Everything feels earned.
00:04:17:17 - 00:04:19:15
Cullen
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so how.
00:04:19:15 - 00:04:34:00
Clark
Did you feel like? I'm just curious, like to even get a little more personal before you start kind of dissecting the film and talking about, you know, different people who worked on it and different aspects of it. I mean, just, just as like an audience, just as an audience member. Like what was your experience watching?
00:04:34:00 - 00:04:41:05
Cullen
Yeah, I mean, I, I was definitely upfront. I knew nothing about it. I hadn't seen a trailer from it, had didn't know what it was about.
00:04:41:05 - 00:04:42:10
Clark
No expectations. Yeah.
00:04:43:19 - 00:04:56:08
Cullen
It's actually very not impossible, but it's hard to find a lot about the movie because it is such a cult kind of classic. And I didn't blow up any, you know, huge, you know, media stuff or whatever.
00:04:56:10 - 00:05:01:04
Clark
I think it was theatrically released for like ten days. Yeah. And it was sold out. Yep.
00:05:01:04 - 00:05:18:19
Cullen
And so I knew nothing. And when I started watching it, it's like the first 10 minutes are very John Hughes kind of Ferris Bueller, like guys getting ready in the morning. He's late for school. Yeah, Sister has to come with him. His younger sister? Yeah. To step his friend, who, like, is very clearly kind of crushing on him.
00:05:18:19 - 00:05:36:19
Cullen
This girl that he picks up from her house and they're driving to school together. And there's this funny bit where they, you know, he almost crashes the car and it's kind of sitting there and it's all well done. But I was sitting there going like, all right, did Clarke just put me in front of a you know, like a regular teen drama John School knockoff?
00:05:36:19 - 00:05:54:09
Cullen
Yeah. And so I was kind of like, what's like, what's the catch here? And I knew that you wouldn't just choose some random, like, teen drama flick. So I was like, What's the catch here? And then as soon as you get it, you just go, Oh, okay, I see. And as soon as the main conflict of the plot starts, which doesn't take long, it's about like it's introduced.
00:05:54:09 - 00:06:11:10
Cullen
As soon as they get to school this, they start planting the seeds of it, and then you also think like, you know, a lot of times in a movie like this, what I was expecting it was that they they get to the school and you're talking about this guy who's like, oh, you know, he broke some guys. What a great introduction shot.
00:06:11:16 - 00:06:22:12
Cullen
He Yeah, exactly. And you're and my thought my prediction when I was sitting there watching it was like, oh, it's going to turn out. The guy gets there and he's completely not that. And then these two are going to become friends and they're going to realize that.
00:06:22:14 - 00:06:24:08
Clark
So that's what you thought was going to happen?
00:06:24:08 - 00:06:34:05
Cullen
Yeah, I thought it was gonna be about like them kind of getting to, like, kind of like a breakfast club type. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Where it's like, Oh, you expect him to be a big bully, But then they actually is it, they, they connect on a like a really.
00:06:34:06 - 00:06:39:22
Clark
He's got a heart. Yeah. Like, like my bodyguard. Yeah. Yeah. In 1980 or like you said.
00:06:39:23 - 00:06:41:02
Cullen
I was expecting bad.
00:06:41:06 - 00:06:41:14
Clark
Yeah.
00:06:41:15 - 00:06:59:01
Cullen
Yeah. And then. And then. No, and then it just goes with it. It's like, oh he actually did stab somebody and then went to juvie and all this stuff and, and it plays up again, this idea of like, I think I had messaged you while I was watching it. Yeah, I don't use my phone during movies, but I just had to kind of message you to let you know that I was.
00:06:59:01 - 00:07:19:14
Cullen
I was enjoying it. Yeah. And I basically just like, it's like bringing me right back to high school, like, it felt, you know, it was. Which is rare because there's a lot there's so much stuff that is made about high school and shot in high school. And, you know, whether it's TV or movies that are all in like very rarely do you have like a smile on your face because you're kind of sitting there going like, yep, that's that's exactly.
00:07:19:14 - 00:07:20:14
Clark
Well, especially this is.
00:07:20:22 - 00:07:23:02
Cullen
Kind of the feeling that you have when you're when you're this.
00:07:23:02 - 00:07:43:12
Clark
Is, what, 35 years old almost. Yeah. And, and you're in Canada. And I know that, you know, culturally there are a lot of similarities between Canada and America. But I do feel like we can talk about this a little more later, that, you know, the American high school experience is fairly unique in the world. Mm hmm. And I don't I didn't grow up in Canada.
00:07:43:12 - 00:08:07:09
Clark
I didn't go to high school in Canada, so I can't speak to how different it might be. But I do know just from having talked to, you know, people throughout my life who've grown up in other countries that that and this is part of why a film like this doesn't translate globally. Yeah. Because there is a pretty unique kind of experience with high school and our public school system in the United States.
00:08:07:09 - 00:08:10:11
Clark
So so it's interesting to me that you related to this.
00:08:10:22 - 00:08:33:22
Cullen
Yeah. I mean, it's a lot there's there's definitely like a lot of differences between the cultural elements of like high school in the U.S. and Canada. But then there's I think the major things the major things are all very similar. Yeah. You know, maybe like we don't have like the pep rallies and things like that. And, you know, I think there's less of like a school spirit kind of idea.
00:08:33:22 - 00:08:57:00
Cullen
But there still is, you know, I think that I think an American student going to a high school in Canada or vice versa, wouldn't feel like a fish out of water. Right. You know, I think that there's I think that the similarities across the board are much greater in number than I think it's. Yeah, I would assume. And a lot of that is just because of how influenced of course Canada is from the U.S. but yet culturally, media, whatever.
00:08:57:00 - 00:09:07:11
Cullen
But I also think that, you know, there is sort of this conglomerate of like North America, maybe lesser to lesser extent in Mexico, but like Canada, the U.S. just have such a similar culture.
00:09:07:11 - 00:09:12:05
Clark
With the with me with all these years that have passed. I mean, that makes my heart smile, I have to say.
00:09:12:05 - 00:09:33:02
Cullen
Yeah. No, I mean, I was sitting there and I was like, you know, everything just will both from the idea that like a very broad idea that everything in high school is the most important thing in the world. Yeah, that day. But also just that sense of just like in senior year, you are, you know, you have so much freedom to do what you want and you know, all the teachers and you can kind of get away with just walking around the hallways.
00:09:33:02 - 00:09:48:05
Clark
And we've all known all these characters, right? Yeah. I mean, I actually all of us, you know, all of us either have been affected by like directly or indirectly a bully. I mean, everybody has at least one bully experience, right? We you at least knew that you're a bully or.
00:09:48:05 - 00:09:49:04
Cullen
You or you were the most.
00:09:49:04 - 00:10:12:17
Clark
Bullied or you were the bully or or you were bullied at some point and you're like middle school, high school career. I think most people can relate to that. I think like they did a great job with each of these characters, even those who weren't on the screen for a very long time. I mean, I love that they have like these two these two guys who are like film fanatics and they're running around trying.
00:10:12:17 - 00:10:13:20
Cullen
To get to Clay.
00:10:13:21 - 00:10:35:13
Clark
Yeah, and they're trying to turn that, ah, lead character, Jerry's tragedy into a film that they're shooting like right in the school. And you've got, you know, the kid in the like in the Boy Scouts beret, like taken bets and, you know, you've got I mean, you've got the goth girl which, you know, I don't know what that's turned into now for kids of this era, but me just.
00:10:35:13 - 00:10:36:18
Cullen
Oh there's always the goth gets.
00:10:37:00 - 00:10:38:03
Clark
Yeah, it's but it's but.
00:10:38:03 - 00:10:54:20
Cullen
I've actually a question that's not necessarily super related to the movie, but to kind of the conversation. Yeah. The only thing that I would say is majorly out of the ordinary to me is having like a, like at that sort of convenience store type thing, like a high school story school. Did you have that?
00:10:55:00 - 00:11:03:13
Clark
So I did not. So we did not have a school store in my high school. I don't think we might have the.
00:11:03:13 - 00:11:07:11
Cullen
Closest we had to. That was like a cafeteria. Yeah, I was going to go in and buy food and.
00:11:07:11 - 00:11:19:05
Clark
Stuff, but, you know, now that I think about it, gosh, I almost do feel like. So I don't think we had a big like a big store. But I do feel like there was some sort of kind of commissary, some sort of like ours.
00:11:19:05 - 00:11:31:01
Cullen
I mean, if we had one that was built into the library. Yeah, I wanted to go buy papers, supplies. I could go to the library and every student had like a credit amount. Yeah, there was some, but there was no, there was no, like, physical.
00:11:31:01 - 00:11:31:14
Clark
Big store.
00:11:31:14 - 00:11:35:13
Cullen
Room that you went into that had shelves and. Right. You know, university. Yes.
00:11:35:13 - 00:11:44:08
Clark
But Yeah. But I don't think we had Yeah. It's not like there was a place you could go and buy, you know, highly like the mascot T-shirts and you know.
00:11:44:13 - 00:11:46:22
Cullen
Yeah, those were all done. Just paper orders and stuff like that.
00:11:47:03 - 00:11:57:18
Clark
And I don't know if that was manufactured for this film or if, you know, maybe on the this, this was a real high school shot in a real high school in Utah. So I don't know if they if that that.
00:11:57:18 - 00:11:58:19
Cullen
Maybe that just is there.
00:11:59:02 - 00:12:01:04
Clark
Or maybe that you know whatever who knows.
00:12:01:09 - 00:12:15:10
Cullen
I will say that one connection to yeah to this movie the school's mascots are the tigers and they're playing the Panthers and there's all these signs all over the place. It's like chicken. The Panthers killed the Panthers and stuff. Yeah, my high school's like team was the Panthers.
00:12:15:10 - 00:12:39:23
Clark
So nice. Yeah, mine. Mine were the Vikings. So no, no correlation whatsoever. But what I mean, so that's awesome to me And I think it speaks to a lot of great qualities of the film that even all these years later, you know, a generation later, even a little bit of cultural difference that the film translated for you, that it spoke to your high school experience kind of authentically.
00:12:39:23 - 00:12:45:02
Clark
I think that's awesome. And it sounds like I don't to put words in your mouth, but it sounds like you enjoyed the film.
00:12:45:05 - 00:12:53:21
Cullen
Oh, I enjoy it a lot more than I. Not that I expected not to like it, but yeah, I had no expectations. I did. Yeah. I didn't know what to expect at all. So that that.
00:12:53:21 - 00:12:54:12
Clark
Cracks me up.
00:12:54:12 - 00:12:55:12
Cullen
I was yeah.
00:12:55:18 - 00:13:14:19
Clark
I love the fact that you kind of, you know, because I've seen the film, of course. So when I first saw this film, you know, probably, you know, a couple of years after it was released theatrically, I did not see it in the theater. Almost nobody did. So but I saw it probably, you know, on HBO or cable on television.
00:13:14:19 - 00:13:35:17
Clark
And it was one of those things where back then in those days, you just watched wherever the heck was playing. So, yes, yeah, I was just, you know, even back then, I was a big film fan. And so I would watch basically whatever the heck I could get my hands on. And so this was probably just came on the TV and I just started watching it and I didn't know what to expect either.
00:13:35:17 - 00:13:39:09
Clark
And holy crap, I was really blown away by it. Um.
00:13:39:23 - 00:13:43:04
Cullen
I definitely, I had a big I had like a, you know, I had a grin on my face.
00:13:43:09 - 00:13:44:08
Clark
Yeah, well, that.
00:13:44:12 - 00:13:50:01
Cullen
Is a very charming movie. I think. I'd say that's one way to describe it. It's. It just everything is. It's just.
00:13:50:11 - 00:13:51:15
Clark
There's an energy about.
00:13:51:15 - 00:13:52:01
Cullen
Antic.
00:13:52:01 - 00:14:14:10
Clark
Yeah, and there's an energy about it. There's that the kinetic nature of how it's shot. And I just the the economy of the story it just and again like the relatability I think it all adds up to and I think that's a great word to use. It's a very charming film. But I you know, so this film, you know, so I saw it way back when it stuck in my mind.
00:14:14:10 - 00:14:33:19
Clark
And then, of course, you know, it wasn't until, you know, I don't even think VHS is when this film really kind of found an audience, although maybe it was starting to build. But I think really it was DVD when we really had this huge surge in at home, you know, just accessibility. Accessibility. Yeah. And then I think it really took off.
00:14:34:01 - 00:14:55:18
Clark
Yeah. It found an audience and and it's it's done exceptionally well And then I've been able to be written to Riva Revisited of course. And now Shout Factory has actually released a few years ago a really wonderful Blu ray release with director's commentary and some other interviews, and which is, I think, the best way that you can probably watch this film today.
00:14:57:00 - 00:15:11:16
Clark
But and, you know, it's kind of I don't know if that's happened to you and maybe you need to add a few years before it really, really happens to you. But it's kind of fun to have a film that you really felt warmly toward when you were young and then have that.
00:15:11:16 - 00:15:12:17
Cullen
Oh, I've had that, Yeah.
00:15:12:17 - 00:15:16:22
Clark
And then again, But nobody else, you know, you're like, Who in the hell I have?
00:15:16:22 - 00:15:22:15
Cullen
Exactly. Yeah. I don't think it's something that we'll ever do for this. But there was a movie when I was a kid called Magic in the Water.
00:15:22:19 - 00:15:23:06
Clark
Okay?
00:15:24:06 - 00:15:30:00
Cullen
And it was an American movie, but it was shot all in B.C. in kind of like north of Vancouver.
00:15:30:06 - 00:15:30:17
Clark
Okay.
00:15:31:01 - 00:15:38:00
Cullen
And starred. What's his name? Uh, Magic in the Water.
00:15:38:00 - 00:15:40:20
Clark
I was like, Look that one up. I'm not familiar with this film.
00:15:40:21 - 00:15:43:00
Cullen
Mark Harmon. Mark Harmon Oh, okay.
00:15:43:00 - 00:15:44:06
Clark
Yeah. Mark Harmon Heck yeah.
00:15:44:10 - 00:15:48:15
Cullen
So it stars him and it's like, it's kind of like an E.T. rip off, Rip off.
00:15:48:22 - 00:15:51:22
Clark
It's a quick, quick, like smack in Me. They have exactly.
00:15:51:23 - 00:16:09:05
Cullen
That. I used to watch this movie a ton as a kid, and we had the VHS. I really wore out the VHS tape and nobody I've ever met, like literally nobody I have ever met has ever seen this movie. Okay. Yeah, but and I just recently, you know, within the last, I think three or so years, I found there's like, it's impossible to find anywhere online.
00:16:09:05 - 00:16:26:00
Cullen
And I found just a version of it on some like streaming site. And I watched it and I was like, there's actually a lot of really impressive stuff about this. Like, it it, it actually is directed really well. It's not a fantastic movie by any means, but like, there's like a really, you know, just close to your heart charm of it.
00:16:26:00 - 00:16:37:13
Cullen
And it's close. So I actually emailed the director and told him that that was a movie that had a huge impact on me as a kid. And it's like this kind of Amblin knockoff type thing. But, but I emailed. I told him that.
00:16:37:13 - 00:16:39:20
Clark
I messaged Phil, I sent Phil a note.
00:16:39:21 - 00:16:41:22
Cullen
Oh, really weird. And I. But did he respond?
00:16:42:01 - 00:16:43:02
Clark
Well, I just did it yesterday.
00:16:43:04 - 00:16:43:16
Cullen
It to me.
00:16:43:17 - 00:17:02:08
Clark
Yeah, I just did it yesterday. So. So Phil, if you're listening. Yeah, I sent you a note. Yeah, but basically, and not that I don't require any response, but I just sent a note saying thanks because it was an inspirational film to me at 3:00. Hey, I mean, let's, let's kind of I think the and this is interesting.
00:17:02:08 - 00:17:20:21
Clark
So I didn't know a lot about what we're going to talk about here as far as the background and how this film kind of came to be. I didn't know any of this until like now, basically. Yeah, I was super surprised about the heritage of this film. I mean, so so right off the bat, what kind of start with what I think is extremely interesting.
00:17:20:21 - 00:17:39:12
Clark
So this film was actually Ghost, produced by Steven Spielberg and Amblin, and I had no idea because of course it's, you know, if you if you look at the credits, it's it's it's produced by spelling, right? Aaron Spelling.
00:17:39:20 - 00:17:40:05
Cullen
Yes.
00:17:40:10 - 00:17:50:09
Clark
And who's of course, huge in television and but apparently and I'm not I don't. Did you do you recall did you get a chance to read like exactly how that came to be?
00:17:50:13 - 00:17:54:12
Cullen
I'm not 100% I'm not sure. It's it's actually quite difficult to find a wall, some.
00:17:54:12 - 00:18:36:23
Clark
Weird kind of politics. Yeah. You know, but basically, you know, spelling owned the script. He didn't want to give it up, but he, you know, but he kind of handed it off to Amblin and Steven Spielberg. And then the director of this film, Phil Jianyu, was a USC student and had done like a 30 minute student film called Last Chance Dance that apparently Spielberg, probably as a USC graduate himself, got caught a glimpse of somehow and really liked it and saw potential and so kind of self and Steve developed a relationship and Steven Spielberg asked Phil to direct a couple.
00:18:37:04 - 00:19:00:04
Clark
Spielberg used to produce this television show called Amazing Stories. Yeah. And so Phil's a who directed a couple of those and apparently did a good enough job that Spielberg gave him this script. And apparently Phil kind of declined at first and then immediately realized that was insane, too. Declined an opportunity to direct a feature film.
00:19:00:04 - 00:19:00:11
Cullen
Sold.
00:19:00:17 - 00:19:16:17
Clark
Yeah, 24 years old. To direct a film, you know, produced by Steven Spielberg and Amblin. He was like, Whoa, what the heck am I thinking? Yeah, But, you know, originally his thought was, you know, I don't want to do another one of these. John Hughes high school movies. Right. Which is what you thought it was going to be.
00:19:16:22 - 00:19:21:23
Cullen
Yes. And you know who I love? I mean. No, no, Of course, stayed on John Hughes at all, right.
00:19:21:23 - 00:19:44:21
Clark
Yeah, but it's but right. You don't want to see kind of a rip off of passion or you don't want to see that rehashed. Well, and Phil didn't want to do that. Yeah, it's apparently the script was definitely a lighter, kind of more John Hughes esque script originally. Well, so apparently Phil came back like chased after Spielberg, met him in his office the next morning and was like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
00:19:44:21 - 00:20:04:17
Clark
I changed my mind. I don't know what I was thinking. I was nuts. You know, I do want to direct this. And and so he took on the project. He asked Spielberg for the ability to rewrite the script, which, again, it's like he's 24 years old. It's like crazy to think that, A, you'd be directing a feature film, you know, you're first introduced by such a work producer, basically.
00:20:04:17 - 00:20:27:07
Clark
GOLDBERG But now you're saying, Hey, I want to rewrite it. And, you know, this first time he would have ever done this, but he did it. Spielberg convinced Universal. So, I mean, basically whatever Spielberg said went. So Spielberg said, Hey, my boy wants to rewrite the script. And so Universal said, okay, So one of the perks of having Steven Spielberg exec produce your film, for sure.
00:20:28:00 - 00:20:35:05
Clark
But he rewrote it. And I think that's my understanding is that's where a lot of more of this kind of darker kind of black comedy, really the tone.
00:20:35:05 - 00:20:41:04
Cullen
Of this, again, it's like we haven't really touched on this yet, but yeah, it it feels so much like after hours.
00:20:41:18 - 00:20:42:18
Clark
Oh, which is.
00:20:42:18 - 00:20:43:17
Cullen
Very, very.
00:20:43:22 - 00:20:44:18
Clark
Very much so.
00:20:44:18 - 00:20:48:18
Cullen
Yeah. And it's directly referenced in that they had mentioned that that was kind of what.
00:20:49:04 - 00:20:50:01
Clark
A big inspiration.
00:20:50:01 - 00:20:54:18
Cullen
To go for it. Yeah. But which I love, I mean I love After Hours is one of my I think.
00:20:54:21 - 00:20:56:02
Clark
It's a fan of arguably.
00:20:56:02 - 00:21:00:13
Cullen
The most underrated scores as a movie. But but I think it's fantastic. It's a lot of fun.
00:21:01:22 - 00:21:02:20
Clark
And very similar.
00:21:02:20 - 00:21:22:21
Cullen
It's it's very yeah it's where they where there's just this constantly forward momentum where the story never stops but it doesn't feel doesn't feel tiring. It doesn't like where on you. It just feels like you're constantly just on this adventure almost with this character and everything keeps going wrong. And it's like every situation somehow compounds and makes the previous one worse.
00:21:23:04 - 00:21:37:07
Clark
Stakes were constantly rising. Yeah. And and so. So. Good point. Yeah. The film genre was definitely inspired by after hours and I think, you know, even stole a couple of things. He also stole some music from Jaws, which you pointed.
00:21:37:07 - 00:21:42:08
Cullen
Out in the in the bug. When they're in the science class, we have this bug documentary that says that it's a.
00:21:42:10 - 00:21:43:01
Clark
Scorpion.
00:21:43:01 - 00:21:50:11
Cullen
Eats when they're it's when they're going out initially on the orca to go it's kind of like a cheery, fun little piece that John Williams did.
00:21:50:16 - 00:21:53:00
Clark
And he steals a back to the Future shot to.
00:21:53:11 - 00:21:59:09
Cullen
Yes. Who actually the lead actor of this was the 3D glasses guy before. Yes. In Back to the Future.
00:21:59:09 - 00:22:20:09
Clark
So yes, 3D glasses guy. Exactly. There's all these connections. I mean, so it's just an extraordinary story to me. And, you know, and Phil talked about in the commentary and interviews for this film, how, you know, he he had no idea how unique and special this situation was because, you know, he he had just been in the industry.
00:22:20:09 - 00:22:36:16
Clark
He he was so young and such a neophyte that he didn't realize how extraordinary it was to have, you know, a feature film handed to you by Steven Spielberg, somebody so powerful in the industry. And and to be able to to do so many things like rewrite the script without a committee.
00:22:36:16 - 00:22:39:20
Cullen
Like any director would kill for that opportunity. Oh, my God. 20 for.
00:22:40:01 - 00:23:11:17
Clark
Any director. I mean. And so, yeah, it's like it's and so now it's even more inspiring to me because I'm like, Wow, what an amazing story. You know, this kid and this opportunity he got. But, you know, and then we have Barry Sonnenfeld is DP on this film a couple interesting notes there. I mean, of course, Barry has gone on to direct a lot and we know him from, you know, especially in the nineties, like late nineties, he was doing big movies like Men in Black and White Wild West and, you know, that kind of stuff.
00:23:11:17 - 00:23:32:23
Clark
But before this, you know, he'd worked with the Coen brothers as a cinematographer and had done one blood sample, which I think is a really well-shot film Raising Arizona. And then he did Miller's Crossing with Coens after this film in the nineties. But you know what an extraordinary DP to have on your film is a first year, the 24 year old director.
00:23:33:00 - 00:23:34:22
Cullen
Oh, absolutely, yeah. And the movie looks great.
00:23:35:03 - 00:23:55:18
Clark
Yeah. So the movie and I think that's probably one of the things that jumped out to me most as a kid was this was probably one of the first films that I saw that had a lot of this kind of kinetic energy and had a lot of these kind of moves with the camera. I mean, I don't think I had seen, you know, like ramped crane shots and.
00:23:55:18 - 00:23:57:04
Cullen
Pull down and yeah.
00:23:57:05 - 00:24:08:11
Clark
And all, you know, and rotating cameras and, you know, we, you know, starred on a bird's eye over the over a character and we come down and twist at the same time and in the.
00:24:08:11 - 00:24:32:21
Cullen
Extreme close ups on the clocks or the lock or like that. You know I honestly I would be interested to hear if, you know, someone like Edgar Wright was inspired by this movie, because there's a lot of that. You know, you think of like Shaun of the Dead and Hot Fuzz. Yeah, he does those really quick kinetic edit sequence, like almost like the montages where it's like everything is a close up and you're hearing that really like raw, you know, sound mix and stuff like that.
00:24:32:21 - 00:24:51:07
Cullen
And it's very similar to this. So I wonder if that's just coincidence or if this is something that he'd seen. Because even at this time, you know, there's a lot of inventive, as much as it is very much, you know, clearly inspired by Oscars as a and things like that and Westerns, there's a lot of really creative, inventive, like original stuff in here.
00:24:51:12 - 00:25:12:02
Cullen
Yeah. And he is not showing off. It's not something that is that is like really? And I know that we kind of wanted to get into this as well. Yeah. Yeah. I want to preface it first by saying that I am a massive PTA fan. I love all those things and I know that you can say one thing on the Internet and then suddenly everyone you know there's going to be an article tomorrow that I want to like kill.
00:25:12:03 - 00:25:12:11
Cullen
You're like.
00:25:12:19 - 00:25:14:00
Clark
Disclaimer, disclaimer.
00:25:14:00 - 00:25:31:09
Cullen
But I like and I like the movies that I am about to criticize. I enjoy Magnolia and I enjoy Boogie Nights. Yeah, but what I find with So if you watch PETA's the first few movies starting with hard eight Hard eight, clearly a lot more studio interference. It was before he kind of had proven himself as like a big shot.
00:25:32:03 - 00:25:46:17
Cullen
And I actually kind of I'm the of the rare opinion I guess that that I prefer hard eight to Boogie nights and Magnolia because I think that studio interference restrained him and I think that his restraint there and the restraint that that was kind.
00:25:46:17 - 00:25:48:01
Clark
Of restraint him.
00:25:48:03 - 00:26:25:01
Cullen
Made it made it a more effective, more cohesive directional kind of debut, I guess you could say, whereas you get into Boogie Nights, which again, I really enjoy Boogie Nights. I think it's a great movie. But that's when he starts, you know, you start seeing him do like so many scenes or oners, and there's this crazy camera movement and it gets it gets to, I think to its peak in Magnolia, where there's a lot of of for lack of a better term, like kind of show off ish camera movement where you just go show a young director or director, you know, trying to prove that he can do these really complicated camera moves.
00:26:25:01 - 00:26:43:15
Cullen
And they're very intricate and very they have to be very precise with timing and character and, you know, what's the blocking like? And everything is kind of doing this big dance, which is really impressive, really great. I love PTA, but I've always found it a little bit distracting. And I found that the later PTA like, especially in in Phantom Thread, it kind of started and there Will be Blood.
00:26:43:15 - 00:27:11:07
Cullen
But Phantom Thread I think is one of my favorite, if not my fair favorite is where he it's this restraint. It's this, it's this. Every single camera movement is justified and you can feel, you know, why it's happening. It's not show offish. It's it's it's simple and it's elegant and it's again restrained. This this I'd rather it's it's kind of the same principle as like an actor bawling their eyes out can be really, really boring.
00:27:11:07 - 00:27:42:04
Cullen
But an actor on the verge of tears can be much more intense Like an actor that is that that knows how to control their their emotion so that they're about to cry. They feel like they're on the burst of that. Or an actor, rather than sprinting down a road, an actor speed walk like when you can't run, but you've got to like, quickly walk somewhere and there's this quick walk that can sometimes that restraint on any big kind of moment in a movie can sometimes make those moments that much more intense and suspenseful and yeah, just all around.
00:27:42:12 - 00:28:03:03
Cullen
That's just kind of what I prefer. And of course, this is all just, you know, personal opinion. And I find that this movie does that incredibly well, that every camera, every time that there's there's, you know, a more complicated move for the camera or something like that, that it's not distracting. It doesn't feel like the director sitting there going, I want to do this because I want somebody to watch this and go, Whoa, that's a crazy camera.
00:28:03:03 - 00:28:28:21
Cullen
Move. It always feels like as the the set pieces get wilder. And while there is the tension builds and the stakes rise and the day just gets worse and worse for Jerry, that the camera movement and the kinetic system of that is building along with it because of what's happening. And it never feels like like he's just showing off or trying to prove that he can do crazy things with the camera and stuff like that.
00:28:29:00 - 00:28:44:14
Cullen
Again, big fan of PTA love those two movies, but that's just something that I've found. That is a really neat kind of comparison between the two of them, because I find that this movie is very restrained. It's very mature, for lack of a better term, for a 24 year record. It feels very mature.
00:28:44:18 - 00:29:19:21
Clark
Yeah, that's so interesting that you'd say that. I mean, I you know, I hear what you're saying for sure, and I tend to agree with you in general about your, you know, restraint versus, you know, showing off or pushing. And and certainly those criticisms have been kind of, you know, levied at Boogie Nights and Magnolia, especially Magnolia. And I think I've even heard PTA himself talk about how he thought, you know, that I could have maybe used a little restraint on that in hindsight, you know, as he's aged.
00:29:20:04 - 00:29:42:02
Clark
But, you know, it's interesting to kind of explore why you feel like that works in this film and why you feel like maybe it was a distraction. And the others, you know, to me, in my mind, I, I never had you know, I, I actually I like Boogie Nights, I like Magnolia, and I kind of like sometimes it's like technical, you know, virtuosity, if you will.
00:29:42:02 - 00:30:13:04
Clark
It is not usually a distraction to me because I feel like those movies are kind of, you know, especially Magnolia. It's a very kind of operatic drama. Oh, yeah. High end, almost fantasy film, quite frankly. And so I feel like that camerawork kind of pushes that film in that direction and it's and it's okay. This film, I feel like it really works because it's, you know, from a story perspective, you're in high school, we've already talked about this where at that age things are so heightened, so dramatic, so emotional.
00:30:13:09 - 00:30:47:11
Clark
Certainly this situation, you can imagine how this would just be absolutely like the, you know, just the height of terror, you know. Yes. Yes. For a character. And these you know, all of these scenes are so heightened, you know, And so, you know, I feel like the camerawork here really lends itself to that. If I imagine some of these scenes without the more complex camera movements and we had, you know, a heavier camera, a more stable camera, I can imagine this if this were just shot on sticks with maybe occasional dolly shots, it would take so much of that energy out.
00:30:47:11 - 00:30:51:04
Clark
It would take so much of that that that driving rhythm.
00:30:51:04 - 00:31:17:20
Cullen
And that's what I mean about this one, is that it all feels justified, that all everything that the camera not that again, not that the Magnolia and Boogie Nights are are are not justified in any way. But I just find that I just found that it was very, very surprising to hear how young this director was that that he had to seem to have like this very refined sense of style in terms of the way that he he uses the camera.
00:31:18:01 - 00:31:38:13
Cullen
And you know, just set up these these especially the points where the camera is doing more complex things, like you said, the scenes that start in overhead and come down to kind of have like a double shot of two people talking to each other, even the moment when Chad that's his name, right? Chad is punched in the face and he falls on the bookshelves and all the bookshelves talk.
00:31:38:13 - 00:31:39:05
Clark
I think it's great.
00:31:39:05 - 00:31:39:21
Cullen
Or is Greg or they.
00:31:39:23 - 00:31:41:06
Clark
Hired the hired?
00:31:41:06 - 00:31:42:03
Cullen
Yeah, the football.
00:31:42:03 - 00:31:44:04
Clark
Like a football player. Yeah.
00:31:44:11 - 00:31:49:12
Cullen
And you've got all the things toppling over and then it just it just lands on them. Great, great, great.
00:31:49:13 - 00:31:52:05
Clark
Mike Charlie as Craig Matty, That's the character.
00:31:52:05 - 00:32:06:18
Cullen
And it just the camera is panning very, very simply panning with all of the bookshelves falling over, falling over and it goes on for like a comedically long time. Yeah. And then you just have it land right on the end. And they're just standing there behind the final book.
00:32:06:19 - 00:32:07:09
Clark
The Reveal.
00:32:07:12 - 00:32:08:10
Cullen
Over. Yeah.
00:32:08:19 - 00:32:39:11
Clark
Well, I think it's interesting. You know, just it's interesting to note. So, you know, again, it's my understanding that the directors and knew actually storyboard shortlisted the entire thing himself even storyboarded a great deal and even further he actually shot so all of the the final climactic fight scenes the DP Barry Sonnenfeld, was actually sick and wasn't even on location, wasn't even really there for five days of the ground.
00:32:39:12 - 00:33:04:06
Clark
And I think they had Oh God, I want to say I think maybe he said that this was a 30 day shoot. So for five days that he wasn't even there. So I think it's very fair to to give credit to Phil for the the look, you know, the visual esthetic, certainly not to take away from Barry very, very obviously a very talented DP and I'm sure he had a significant impact in things in the look as well.
00:33:04:06 - 00:33:26:08
Clark
But I mean definitely the director had a major, major, major voice in and the look of the film, I think, you know, rhythm we talk about. I think one of the things that this film is a really great example of are the the components, all of these components coming together dialog the know how the camera is used. Of course of course of course.
00:33:26:08 - 00:33:52:13
Clark
The editing. I think there's a really wonderful rhythm to this film that as soon as this film starts the and the rhythm just key and it's just beautifully maintained, it's got a nice dynamic. It speeds up in places, it slows down in places, but it's always kind of consistently building this film is a really fantastic example of of exceptional rhythm in a film.
00:33:52:13 - 00:33:53:16
Clark
Yeah, in my mind.
00:33:54:04 - 00:34:10:17
Cullen
Oh, totally. It's got, um, again, beyond just the kinetic energy of the camerawork, it's got such a there's just this, the way that this is edited and you know, it's not edited by Thelma Schoonmaker but it could be.
00:34:11:06 - 00:34:12:03
Clark
Yeah, but it could be.
00:34:12:20 - 00:34:17:00
Cullen
You know, like I think actually I'm not sure who edited it so, so it up real quick.
00:34:17:00 - 00:34:25:18
Clark
So but the the editor the editing is credited to credited to Joanne Fogel Doc I am not familiar with this editor Yeah.
00:34:25:19 - 00:34:26:08
Cullen
Me neither.
00:34:26:12 - 00:34:27:16
Clark
But Joanne Fogel.
00:34:27:16 - 00:34:35:06
Cullen
Is and that's Jo Ann, which is interesting. It's Jo Ann vocal, not like Joanne the name, but Jo the name then and the middle name. Fogel I.
00:34:35:07 - 00:34:41:22
Clark
And I. Yeah. And I can't speak to that. I don't like I said, I don't know who, uh, this I think it.
00:34:42:11 - 00:34:46:14
Cullen
Not a ton like nothing. Nothing super. Well.
00:34:46:21 - 00:34:55:15
Clark
No. Well this, this person did a fantastic job on this film. Yeah. There. I could say that for sure. Really quite wonderful, you know.
00:34:55:16 - 00:35:04:22
Cullen
And she's. Oh, she's so she's directed a lot of TV and television. Yes. I Law and Order things like that. But yeah, definitely. Houser Exactly.
00:35:06:02 - 00:35:07:22
Clark
I actually she Wow. Yeah.
00:35:08:05 - 00:35:33:23
Cullen
So so there's a lot of really great like just the again the simple like I think editing is such a again I said I'm not the first person to say this, but it's the final stage of writing. And I think that that is, is like it's never calling attention to itself. You never feel like there's like super chaotic editing that that that drives, you know, you kind of insane or distracts you or something like that.
00:35:33:23 - 00:35:52:06
Cullen
It's all very, very intricately placed. And there are some really kinetic edits. There's moments where things are kind of going a little bit crazy, but it all fits like everything. Yes, technically there's not there's not a ton to criticize, but this maybe when you come when it comes to the technicalities, like it's all done really, really, really well.
00:35:52:09 - 00:36:17:16
Clark
Yeah, it everything really together. Well, you know something else I want to shift to a little bit here, because I think it's, you know, again, it's it's kind of one of those films that's like it's better than it should. It punches above its weight class. And I think the actors there are some really, really interesting people here. I mean, I think like, first of all, you know, I think Casey as as Jerry is is like the perfect everyman.
00:36:17:16 - 00:36:25:06
Clark
I think there's like this perfect blend of kind of humor. But, you know, but he's got these great idea of his, like, seduction scene of his.
00:36:25:07 - 00:36:26:02
Cullen
Oh, my God.
00:36:26:07 - 00:36:44:16
Clark
Yeah, that's good language arts teacher. I mean, there's just it's and he he does a perfect job of of because I mean, I remember being a kid and I went through a couple of years where I was bullied, and that's probably about the time that I saw this film. And, oh, my God, could I relate to Jerry Mitchell?
00:36:44:16 - 00:36:48:04
Clark
Like, I just felt like I was this kid, You know.
00:36:48:04 - 00:36:58:06
Cullen
It's it's it's really, really. Yeah. He does such a great role. What's his name? The, um, to plays the, uh, the bully.
00:36:58:17 - 00:37:00:06
Clark
So. Richard Tyson. Richard Tyson.
00:37:00:06 - 00:37:00:10
Cullen
Richard.
00:37:00:10 - 00:37:01:06
Clark
So Richard Tyson.
00:37:01:09 - 00:37:06:00
Cullen
Tyson reminds me of a young Patrick Swayze. Like, he reminds me so much of Patrick Swayze in The Outsiders.
00:37:06:20 - 00:37:07:17
Clark
So interesting.
00:37:07:17 - 00:37:14:05
Cullen
It's like I was just. Yeah, that has a very, very mysterious air about him and stuff like that.
00:37:14:05 - 00:37:27:19
Clark
Yeah, I think yeah, I think that, you know, he brings a great presence to the film, you know? I know they did a lot. They spent a lot of time casting a lot of the you know, the leads are unknown. So, you know, I know. Casey now, how do you pronounce is it Sam ASCO? I know that he.
00:37:27:19 - 00:37:29:10
Cullen
He seems go I think yeah.
00:37:29:15 - 00:37:33:14
Clark
He did some work before this and he might have had the most experience of the leads.
00:37:33:14 - 00:37:35:19
Cullen
Yeah, but I mean in Back to the Future and yeah.
00:37:35:20 - 00:37:43:09
Clark
Richard Tyson hadn't done much and Ryan, Stacey Glick, I mean all of these, you know, kind of the younger the kids. Yeah, it's Paul.
00:37:43:09 - 00:37:45:08
Cullen
Feig's first little cameo and.
00:37:45:08 - 00:37:51:07
Clark
He's got a little cameo, but then we've got these great like Jeffrey Tambor is just like this student.
00:37:51:23 - 00:37:52:08
Cullen
Or.
00:37:52:09 - 00:37:53:07
Clark
Kind of, you know.
00:37:53:17 - 00:38:09:06
Cullen
But he's but he's great in it because he's like, he takes it so, so seriously. He's built a bigger hall. I was another thing I message you during this that I was like, I see where they got Philip Baker Hall Seinfeld character. Yeah, he's just playing this like, tough cop that's taking his little high school job so seriously.
00:38:09:14 - 00:38:10:05
Clark
And it's just.
00:38:10:05 - 00:38:16:06
Cullen
That funny, Bryan, in that when he's the one, he's the librarian cop. And in Seinfeld, it's like, very similar, but yeah, Jumpy.
00:38:16:06 - 00:38:19:04
Clark
Ryan Yep. And he's great. It's there's just a ton.
00:38:19:04 - 00:38:20:23
Cullen
Of it's punched in the face, right? Yeah.
00:38:21:04 - 00:38:41:21
Clark
Yeah. Almost everybody gets punched in the face in the end. Let's face it, Right? Yeah. The great performances that I do have a fun. So a fun little story about Richard Tyson. So, you know, like I said, I mean, I grew up with this film. It's kind of a part of my own mythology, as you know, inspired me to be a filmmaker.
00:38:41:21 - 00:39:10:02
Clark
I connected to it. And so it's like been kind of seared into my brain, right? These characters in this story. So fast forward, this is probably now maybe a decade ago, I was living in Los Angeles and I was actively pursuing a career as an actor. I was interning for Sovereign Talent, which is a theatrical agency. I think they did commercial stuff too, but they were theatrical and commercial agent, like a boutique agent.
00:39:10:08 - 00:39:30:18
Clark
But but definitely a reputable one in Los Angeles. And I would intern there, and I think I spent, you know, an afternoon every week or something. You know, I would like help with submissions and read scripts and kind of give notes for the agents and, you know, all this kind of stuff. Right. And just, you know, mail out submissions for their actors.
00:39:30:18 - 00:39:52:12
Clark
And we're still like in this crossover era of like there were still physical resumes and headshots by tens, but then we were also shifting to submitting electronically. So yeah, it was kind of kind of all this period, all this crap going on, right? Well, so I didn't even know, but Richard Tyson was repped by them at the time, so I'm just doing my thing.
00:39:52:12 - 00:40:10:13
Clark
I'm like, busy file, you know, busy like filing papers or whatever the heck I'm doing, you know? And somebody walks into the office and I look up and it's freaking Richard Tyson standing right there. And it caught me off guard because in my mind, all I could think was like, Buddy Revelle.
00:40:10:13 - 00:40:13:00
Cullen
Now, gosh, yeah, that's hilarious.
00:40:13:01 - 00:40:21:19
Clark
And I swear, dude, like inside me, like, I somehow it instantly to like a middle school, like kid.
00:40:21:23 - 00:40:22:20
Cullen
You didn't want to touch him.
00:40:23:02 - 00:40:45:19
Clark
I was like, I was Jerry Mitchell, dude. Yeah. And I and I don't remember, like, verbatim, but it was something like, you know, where it's like you just completely saying the wrong things because you're so anxious. So I, like, tripped over my word. Like he actually came to me to ask me for something like, you know, it was probably something like, you know, hey, is, you know, agent blah, blah, blah.
00:40:45:20 - 00:41:11:01
Clark
Here you know? And I completely, like, stumbled over my words and I just remember him just like, staring at me like, what in the hell are you doing? Dude, what is wrong with you? And I swear to you, I swear to you, he had the same demeanor. He had that same look. It was, like, so intimidating. I mean, and then afterwards, of course, I was just like, Oh, my God, you're such an idiot, Clark.
00:41:11:01 - 00:41:28:00
Clark
Like, what is wrong with you? I mean, I could have done or said any number of things. I could have thanked him for his performance. I could have told him how much the film meant to me. I could have, you know, hell, I probably could have gotten his autograph or something if I played my cards right and, you know, and and but instead I just, like, turned into Jerry Mitchell in this film.
00:41:28:00 - 00:41:28:07
Clark
But.
00:41:28:14 - 00:41:30:06
Cullen
Well, I mean, hey, you got a great story out of it.
00:41:30:07 - 00:41:49:06
Clark
Yeah, it's. Well, it's a testament to his performance. Right. But I swear, I mean, look at Adam, and I don't even, you know, I don't even remember him being particularly tall or. But he was just such an intimidating presence. I was like. And of course, all of my baggage and history with this story and this character. So anyway, here's my little like brush with with Richard Tyson.
00:41:49:12 - 00:41:57:23
Clark
That's from the film. Yeah. Yeah. So but oh my gosh. Yeah. Let's just say he's he's good at that. At, at intimidation. Yeah. Yeah.
00:41:58:08 - 00:41:59:03
Cullen
I played the role.
00:41:59:09 - 00:42:00:07
Clark
He played the role.
00:42:00:07 - 00:42:01:15
Cullen
So he was good casting.
00:42:01:19 - 00:42:03:19
Clark
Yeah. But there's so much good casting.
00:42:03:22 - 00:42:04:10
Cullen
Oh yeah.
00:42:04:18 - 00:42:06:07
Clark
Yeah. And I loved.
00:42:06:08 - 00:42:28:04
Cullen
He takes it like Jeffrey Tambor takes his role so seriously and it's great and yeah and it's I think what's really again, sort of shocking but also very inspiring about it is the fact that again, you have this 24 year old director who who is getting these great performances out of out of these people who are well above his age and well above his his weight in a you know.
00:42:28:11 - 00:42:29:00
Clark
And so.
00:42:29:00 - 00:42:30:05
Cullen
Within these periods.
00:42:30:05 - 00:42:38:03
Clark
In many cases, I mean, you know, it's like Philip Baker Hall had been acting, you know, like one and a half times longer than he had been alive.
00:42:38:03 - 00:42:38:09
Cullen
Life.
00:42:38:13 - 00:43:03:09
Clark
At this point, you know, But so had John P Ryan And I love these little Easter eggs, like Yeardley Smith is like in the in the beginning and at the very end, she kind of bookends the whole film. And, you know, she is kind of like, you know, just like these little tiny things, like when I was a kid, there was another film that I really loved called The Legend of Billie Jean, which is a 1985 film.
00:43:03:09 - 00:43:26:00
Clark
She has a much larger role. She's one of the leads and that and it's as if you were kind of like a kid in the eighties, just these like little Easter eggs, you know, were just kind of fun, you know? So, you know, another thing, too, we don't spend as much time often talking about music as we do, like visual aspects and, you know, performance.
00:43:26:00 - 00:43:34:12
Clark
But wow, I mean, I really feel like I mean, at least for me personally and again, maybe this is kind of like having grown up in the eighties, but to have Tangerine Dream.
00:43:35:01 - 00:43:36:02
Cullen
MM Yes.
00:43:36:02 - 00:43:56:06
Clark
Well, your film, I mean, I think it's a great score. It's an amazing score and I feel like it really, I mean, and it does a couple thing. I mean it definitely like places this film in the eighties, right, Even more than it already is It really does kind of place this film in the eighties. But I think it's awesome though it does it in a way that almost makes it timeless instead of.
00:43:56:06 - 00:43:57:05
Clark
Yeah, you know, it's I.
00:43:57:05 - 00:44:01:04
Cullen
Mean, it reminds me so much of of like Wang Chung scoring to live and die in L.A..
00:44:01:06 - 00:44:01:19
Clark
Yeah.
00:44:01:19 - 00:44:12:13
Cullen
Where that is also a very eighties score. But it's like this like incredibly brilliant score that it it works so well. And like you said, it makes it kind of timeless even though that it is.
00:44:12:13 - 00:44:13:20
Clark
Even though it's like super high.
00:44:14:06 - 00:44:22:05
Cullen
Score. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's like, it's like when you do something, well, maybe that's what makes it like maybe it is a, it's a staple as opposed to a like a cliche almost.
00:44:22:05 - 00:44:33:02
Clark
And Tangerine Dream was the best. I mean, you know, and at this time, I mean, Tangerine Dream and I think they even called back to it, you know, when did risky Business come out? Do you remember when.
00:44:33:02 - 00:44:35:06
Cullen
Risk 1984.
00:44:35:06 - 00:44:37:13
Clark
Okay. So it was a couple of years before this, right.
00:44:37:13 - 00:44:40:04
Cullen
Might be actually risky business, 83, 83.
00:44:40:16 - 00:44:41:13
Clark
So yeah.
00:44:41:13 - 00:44:42:05
Cullen
Four years before.
00:44:42:05 - 00:44:47:20
Clark
This, they even kind of like reference. You know, I think there's like there's a scene here where this well.
00:44:47:20 - 00:44:50:05
Cullen
When he's with the the microwave the.
00:44:50:14 - 00:44:53:04
Clark
Well there's a couple there's with the, with the teacher.
00:44:53:04 - 00:44:54:01
Cullen
With Oh yes.
00:44:54:05 - 00:45:07:22
Clark
With his book report that we kind of have like a very reminiscent of like the love on a real train. Yeah. The Tangerine Dream song from Risky Business. It was kind of a callback to that, but so many films.
00:45:07:22 - 00:45:14:08
Cullen
But when he can at the beginning, when he's doing the he's kind of slides in over to the microwave to hit it, turn it on or turn it off or something. And well.
00:45:14:08 - 00:45:17:08
Clark
That's, that's kind of a risky business. That's a visual. Yeah.
00:45:17:08 - 00:45:19:01
Cullen
Yeah. Visually, yes, that's visually.
00:45:19:01 - 00:45:34:09
Clark
There. But there's kind of some, some like music callbacks. But they, I mean, they were huge. They did, you know, Risky Business. They did. I mean, almost like it seems like I feel every like amazing movie of that era I'm trying to find. But they did Near dark.
00:45:35:10 - 00:45:36:19
Cullen
Yeah, I love near dark.
00:45:36:19 - 00:45:42:01
Clark
Like voiceover. Yep. Right after this. Kathryn Bigelow I think that was her first film.
00:45:42:06 - 00:45:49:14
Cullen
I know it was her second. I actually took a funny life. I took a Kathryn Bigelow an entire course on Kathryn Bigelow Universal.
00:45:49:14 - 00:45:52:01
Clark
It was her solo debut, I think Solo.
00:45:52:10 - 00:46:05:18
Cullen
Her previous one had been co-directed with someone who had done a lot of work on David Lynch. With David Lynch. I think he's like assistant director or something. But yeah, they did. Yeah, which is great. If you've ever seen Near Dark, Great movie. It is a great score.
00:46:05:19 - 00:46:09:00
Clark
Yep, it's an ad. So just they elevate the film.
00:46:09:00 - 00:46:23:06
Cullen
And I was going to say too sorry, I actually I forgot that they did the score for the Grand Theft Auto five. They did the beginning of this when they're driving to school. I was like, This sounds so much like Grand Theft Auto five.
00:46:23:06 - 00:46:24:04
Clark
Like it's actually.
00:46:24:10 - 00:46:29:10
Cullen
It's actually Tangerine Dream that did the. Yeah, Grand Theft Auto five some of the score for it.
00:46:29:10 - 00:46:29:23
Clark
Yeah so much.
00:46:30:00 - 00:46:39:18
Cullen
So I think it's funny that I was like sitting there going interesting that this is the sounds so much like Grand Theft Auto five and it's because I didn't realize that they had done the score for Grand Theft Auto five.
00:46:40:01 - 00:47:02:22
Clark
Yeah, they've done a ton of things. Yeah. You know Legend. They did. Legend they did. I mean just a ton of movies. Risky Business, Firestarter, Just a lot of these films from the eighties, they were just. They just seemed to be almost everywhere at, you know, for a few years. There in films. And then people kind of copied their style and, you know, was kind of really pervasive in the eighties.
00:47:02:22 - 00:47:21:15
Clark
They're kind of sound. But I think it just adds so much to this. And for me, it's such a treat now. Again, it's like almost timeless in its you know, in its timeliness. You know, it's just it's so eighties, but it's so it's hard to articulate, but it's like so eighties, but it's so like, universal. I don't know.
00:47:21:15 - 00:47:31:14
Cullen
I think I think just because it's so good that it supersedes the fact that it's it doesn't get dated like it's like, it's like one of those things that it's like Abba. We don't have enough time.
00:47:31:14 - 00:47:41:06
Clark
I think there's enough times. That is that's what I think it is. You know, it's like, you know, probably like a decade, like if we were talking about this film in the mid nineties, you'd probably be like, Oh, you know what, an 80.
00:47:41:08 - 00:47:42:00
Cullen
So eighties.
00:47:42:00 - 00:47:54:23
Clark
Yeah, what a typical eighties film. But now we're sitting here in 2022, which wow, blows my mind. It's almost like we're talking about, you know, a film from the fifties, you know, it's yeah, it's like so Well.
00:47:54:23 - 00:48:00:05
Cullen
There is, there is there is about an equal amount of time between now and the eighties versus the eighties and the film. Yeah.
00:48:00:12 - 00:48:21:02
Clark
And I and there you go. And so I think it's like now we're talking about a film and this really does blow my mind and this makes me feel just extremely old. COEN That, that, that yeah, I mean, we're talking about a film that's that's that is so old now that it is kind of like, you know, crossed over into timelessness.
00:48:21:02 - 00:48:23:00
Clark
Wow. Yes. Oh, my gosh. Well, it's like.
00:48:23:03 - 00:48:49:19
Cullen
I mean, it's like even like you think of something like The Matrix that's like the epitome of like the nineties that like neo tech kind of, you know, edging into the 2000s. This the, you know, Y2K, whatever and all that and technology and but but now suddenly all of that kind of that trend that like that cyberpunk kind of trend has like re reemerge because it's been 20 years and yeah you know whereas that was like so uncool in like 2010.
00:48:49:19 - 00:48:52:09
Clark
Just don't get me started on the latest Matrix movie though.
00:48:52:10 - 00:48:52:22
Cullen
Oh yeah.
00:48:53:19 - 00:49:26:02
Clark
But, but I want to talk about I do want to talk about before we wrap up, I want to talk about something else we don't often talk about or sometimes we do about these films. I want to talk about kind of the the the reception, the the commercial response to this film, or rather, shall I say, the lack thereof, because I think there's an interesting story maybe for people who are thinking about getting into the industry or maybe you're you're struggling in the industry or, you know, no matter where you're at, if you kind of are an aspiring filmmaker or you are a filmmaker, I think there's some interesting things here.
00:49:26:02 - 00:49:51:14
Clark
I mean, so we've talked about all of these different aspects that that we think are really admirable in this film. And I think we both are in agreement that the film is a really well-made film and deserves to be seen by people. I think it's it is a film that is absolutely, positively on every level, better than average and in some ways is exceptional and it deserves to be seen.
00:49:51:21 - 00:50:22:22
Clark
But sadly, it wasn't. And, you know, I think it's just it's an interesting example of, you know, my understanding was that basically what it came down to was that the universal marketing department didn't quite know what to do with the film. Now, who knows? There may be other political or economic issues that drove this, but but that story about the film is kind of that because it did have a darker kind of tone, although, of course, we look at it today from 2022 and it really does not seem very dark at all.
00:50:23:06 - 00:50:27:21
Clark
But I think if you put it in context of 16 Candles or something like that, you know, Ferris.
00:50:27:23 - 00:50:29:04
Cullen
Ferris Bueller. Yeah.
00:50:29:04 - 00:50:32:08
Clark
Yeah, you would. There is definitely this is darker film.
00:50:32:13 - 00:50:35:05
Cullen
Is more violence like raw violence kind of thing.
00:50:35:05 - 00:51:00:16
Clark
And and it's and it's a little esoteric. It's a little eccentric right for some of the reasons we talked about the the characters are a little more offbeat the technical aspects the camerawork is a little more, you know, offbeat kind of adds up to just a little bit of a funkier flick. And apparently the marketing department at Universal just didn't quite know what to do, so they didn't advertise it.
00:51:00:17 - 00:51:10:12
Clark
Apparently, it only received newspaper advertising about, you know, the day before it opened. They only opened it in 700 theaters and then they closed it after about ten days.
00:51:10:12 - 00:51:11:06
Cullen
You said.
00:51:11:06 - 00:51:29:16
Clark
Yeah. So, you know, it's I think there's like maybe, you know, there's a lot of different ways you could maybe look at it. But in my mind, I think it's a reminder of something that's important to kind of keep keep in your mind. You know, this guy did everything right in a sense. He made a really good film.
00:51:29:16 - 00:51:58:22
Clark
I mean, everybody involved, not just the director, of course, it's collaborative art. Everybody worked really hard and made a really great film. And in the end, it wasn't successful. It didn't find the audience that it deserved to find. And I think it's just a reminder of that. You know, you can't control everything. There are so many aspects to to really broad commercial success that boil down to luck or boil down to things that are outside of your control, that you can't beat yourself up.
00:51:59:06 - 00:52:08:16
Clark
You know, it just ultimately, there are so many factors that are outside of your control even. And this guy had luck that most of us would.
00:52:08:16 - 00:52:09:18
Cullen
Never, ever see.
00:52:10:01 - 00:52:18:06
Clark
You know, like, I mean, who gets to make a film? You know, your first film at 24, Steven Spielberg's producing, You know, obviously that doesn't happen very well.
00:52:18:06 - 00:52:34:04
Cullen
And that's and that's very much what I meant when I said that it's very it's like it's it's an inspiring movie in that sense that that, you know, I of course, you know, you're you're your own worst critic but it's like in terms of like daylight again what I just made it it's like I look at it and I kind of think like, oh, it doesn't really do much.
00:52:34:04 - 00:52:50:05
Cullen
It's not it's like there's nothing that's like taking risks or anything like that. But then I see something like this and it's like, Oh, this is such a simple story told so confidently. And that's all that really matters is just that you go with, with what the story, you know, the ending of the story serves.
00:52:50:05 - 00:53:11:08
Clark
And don't take your success or your failure too seriously because there are so many things outside of your control in the universe that can influence that, that you just have to you have to do it because you love it and you have to, you know, just keep on keeping on. And, you know, because it's it's interesting to imagine what would have happened to the film.
00:53:11:08 - 00:53:19:19
Clark
You knew if this film would have received a significant push, if it would have been more broadly played in theaters, you, you know, knows I.
00:53:19:19 - 00:53:31:22
Cullen
Don't know if you've seen any of his other work, but I'm actually very curious to see his other films now. Not that like it. None of them were were big, but I'm actually quite curious to see if, you know, what was his.
00:53:31:22 - 00:53:32:11
Clark
I am.
00:53:32:11 - 00:53:34:10
Cullen
Too stuff like because I think he you know.
00:53:34:16 - 00:53:56:04
Clark
He had the only film that I think I've ever seen of his was State of Grace. Now, the only other film that I've seen, and I remember thinking pretty fondly on that film actually, but it's been quite a while since I've seen it. I think that came out in like 19 early nineties, like maybe 90 or something. So and I saw that probably because of Sean Penn.
00:53:56:09 - 00:54:19:09
Clark
Gary Oldman is in it to I mean, there's a great cast. Ed Harris is in there, I think. Robin Wright, John Turturro, There's a really extraordinary cast in that film. So maybe that'd be a good place to start. Yeah, maybe I'll check that out again. But. But yeah. Yeah, I'd be interested to. We'll have to. I'm curious to see how his other films kind of compare to this one.
00:54:19:09 - 00:54:35:09
Clark
But what a strong debut director directorial debut. Feature film, huh? I'm glad you enjoyed it, Colin. And for everybody else out there, I hope that you enjoyed our discussion of it. If you haven't seen the film, go see it. Obviously.
00:54:35:15 - 00:54:42:01
Cullen
Obviously it's available on YouTube, like not for free, but you can pay a few bucks for it. And there you go on YouTube.
00:54:42:07 - 00:54:50:16
Clark
Or I mean, I would recommend watching it. Go get the shout. Yeah, you'll get the shout. Blu ray. It's it's a really it's a really good looking.
00:54:50:16 - 00:54:55:17
Cullen
Very rewatchable. I've only I've only seen it once, but I can already tell that like something that I would want to rewatch again.
00:54:56:13 - 00:55:06:21
Clark
Yeah. Fantastic. All right. Well, Colin, as always, it's been a treat. I always love discussing films with you. I can't wait for the next one. And until then, everybody take care. Be safe. We'll talk to you. So.
00:55:06:21 - 00:55:15:10
Cullen
Yeah. Bye bye.