Clark
Hello, everybody, and welcome once again to the Soldiers of Cinema podcast. I'm Clark Coffey and with me today is Cullen McFater and we're on Wow episode six Amazing, where we discuss Herzog's masterclass from Master Class icon. His lesson seven, which is all about location, is so. Cohen, thanks so much for being with me again today. I look forward to this conversation.
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Clark
Thank you, sir.
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Cullen
No worries. Yeah, I mean, it's a it's an interesting lesson because as as we both know, it starts out with Aguirre, which is probably the most stark and striking opening of.
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Speaker 3
Any of his work. He's definitely one of.
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Clark
The most memorable.
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Cullen
And he's got the you know, that's when he has the people tied to trees because it was such a steep, you know, cliff face that they were walking down and stuff like that.
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Speaker 3
Yeah.
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Clark
I'm telling you when I when I first I remember when I first saw this saw Aguirre and first saw this opening scene. I don't know about you. I have kind of a thing with heights. As in, I'm scared to death of them.
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Speaker 3
Only in.
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Clark
Specific situations. And it just so happens, like being on the side of a mountain would be one of those situations. Yeah, And literally my palms and feet started to sweat.
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Speaker 3
Well, I mean, all this when I saw this opening to this.
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Clark
Movie, it is so extraordinarily shot and does such a good.
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Speaker 3
Job.
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Clark
Of showing the scale and the danger of this expedition and sets the scene so amazingly.
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Cullen
Yeah. And to think about carrying a camera up there to.
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Speaker 3
Say.
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Clark
I know, I mean, I literally I think my feet and palms are sweating now just thinking about it. Yeah, but it definitely does a good job highlighting the importance of location. I mean, imagine that film having been opened with any other scene and I just.
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Cullen
Saw something that was fake. It was shot on a set of greenscreen or something like that, right?
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Clark
Oh, yes. Well, we definitely can get into that a bit more. Of course, Herzog's stance on that is that is that, you know, one of his goals as he sees as a filmmaker, is to have an audience believe their eyes. And I agree it's vital. And in today's world of Marvel films, which don't get me wrong, have they're wonderful charms for sure, but so many films are so full of greenscreen and CGI now that you just don't believe anything, you literally don't believe anything that you're seeing on the screen.
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Clark
I think it takes takes a lot of the visceral ness out of it. But but yeah, so okay, so locations important, I think, you know, Herzog goes into a little bit of what he had to do to get that location, months and months of obviously, he had to, first of all, travel to the Amazon to begin with. And then he has to spend months of his life in the Amazon going up and down rivers and, you know, hiking up hills and mountains and the jungle and probably a lot more than most people would do to find a location.
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Clark
Do you have any fun.
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Speaker 3
Stories of of what you've had to do to scout certain locations? I mean, I'm trying.
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Clark
To think of any I might have.
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Cullen
Scouting is always I think it's it's both fun and held depending on what the project is. Yeah, that I remember. I mean, one of my favorite locations ever shot was Iceland, which is, you know.
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Speaker 3
Oh, wait, wait. Have you you have shot.
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Clark
You shot in Iceland, is that correct? Am I here?
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Cullen
Yes. Oh, not narrative. I shot documentary footage there, but.
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Speaker 3
Okay. So tell us a little bit about that experience.
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Clark
I mean, we're going to kind of jump back and forth here. You know, you're kind of discussing what Herzog thinks about locations, but also sprinkling in some of our own experiences.
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Speaker 3
So tell us a little bit about that.
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Clark
What the project was, how you found yourself in Iceland and and how that all kind of came together.
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Cullen
I mean, honestly, it was a project that was born out of just the desire to go to Iceland, really.
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Speaker 3
It was a.
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Cullen
Friend of mine and I just just wanted to go somewhere and I thought, you.
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Speaker 3
Know, So it's like one of those old.
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Clark
Elvis films where.
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Speaker 3
They like like, you know, why we want to go to Hawaii.
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Clark
So let's just put a film in Hawaii and then get to spend a few months in Hawaii.
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Cullen
Yeah. And so what I did actually though, was I so it was quite I mean, I see it was documentary was sort of half the footage that I actually got there is still sort of in the cutting room on a project that I've been wanting to make for ages, which is an adaptation of the Old Man in the Sea.
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Cullen
It's like kind of like a science fiction adaptation of that, which would be interesting. A 30 minute is short film.
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Speaker 3
And.
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Cullen
I wanted to start it out on a alien planet, and that alien planet was going to be Iceland, because Iceland, that's like another planet.
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Clark
That's a good place to put it.
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Speaker 3
Yeah, but I wound.
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Cullen
Up getting so much footage there that I just turned some of that footage into kind of a visceral auditory sort of audio visual experience, which was kind of fun. That that also was just a short film that I put up. But but no, I mean, Iceland is a country where 10 minutes apart it can go from sunny, sunny, sunny to snow to rain to, you know, wind that is knocking you off your ass.
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Cullen
And it's like I remember one of the days that we shot, we went was that we went to the famous black sand beach, which is like this volcanic ash beach. And then the sky was overcast and the water was white. So you get this incredible contrast between these white, foamy waves coming up on the this jet black beach.
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Cullen
And it was like, you know, it's one of the most dangerous beaches in the world because the waves, you know, it's the North Atlantic, people are not really aware of the fact that the waves can come in 30 meters more than than the last.
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Clark
Break in of radius. Yeah.
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Cullen
And and, you know, people have died. There's I think oh wow, I might this might be a rumor, but I'm pretty sure there's an average of about one death per year on that beach just from people not being aware of the fact the waves come in. But I mean, there's points where you're like around a corner kind of in a cave and suddenly the waves will come in so far that you can no longer get out of the cave to go back around to where you get out.
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Cullen
You kind of have to wait for the waves to subside.
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Clark
That sounds somewhat terrifying.
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Speaker 3
So yeah, sorry for you. Kind of so.
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Clark
So you wanted to go to Iceland and you thought to yourself, okay, how am I? Like, what can I do since I want to go to Iceland, then you kind of you put that in front and said, okay, what film can I make? Where you making kind of like a lessons, a darkness type thing a little bit. When you said it was kind of like, was it kind of an abstraction of the landscape?
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Cullen
Sort of, Yeah, Yes. I mean, these so the the film that actually came out that I've been that I've made the short film was very much not planned in advance. It was something that again, I just had the footage to do and I cut it together.
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Clark
So maybe, maybe not The best example of what Herzog's.
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Cullen
Yeah, perhaps not, but.
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Speaker 3
That's okay. No, but that's.
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Clark
Okay because I think, you know, look, just take a step back here for a second. I mean, a lot of us as filmmakers that don't have the same kind of, you know, access to money or as Herzog mate, where he even, of course, is challenged by that. But, you know, oftentimes you have to you have to shoot with what you've got.
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Clark
You have to shoot with what's available. And oftentimes the location can dictate kind of what you're able to shoot. So Herzog doesn't really talk about this so much in his lesson. But, you know, we can kind of speak to, you know, really utilizing the locations that you've got. And then somewhat writing the story around that to incorporate that.
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Clark
So, I mean, that's definitely a valid way to do it, you know.
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Cullen
And I think I mean, I think that a IT location is so intertwined with or obviously intertwined with.
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Speaker 3
Stories, No question.
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Cullen
You know, and another example like sort of just another quick anecdote is the the Western that I made last year. Of course, when you're shooting something like that, that's period. You have to make sure that your locations are basically locked off from any semblance.
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Speaker 3
Of.
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Cullen
Modernity.
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Clark
Right. So not going to work if you've got a highway in the background with.
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Speaker 3
Exactly.
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Clark
Driving back and forth. Yeah.
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Cullen
We got to there's a there's a provincial park, maybe an hour and a half north of Toronto called Forks of the Credit. And it is this beautiful, beautiful park. But it's one of those places that you can go and essentially set up a camera and turn it 360 degrees and then see nothing. And so, you know, it's like an hour hike through this forest, which we had to carry all the gear through and, you know, get to this waterfall and all this stuff and very, very fun, very tiring, but a lot of fun.
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Cullen
But yeah, again, it's one of those things where it's like that location. Without that location, I don't think anything would have felt the way that it did.
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Clark
And that's an interesting little microcosm. I mean, certainly, you know, you're not spending three months in the Amazon, but it was a challenge to get there. You know, I think I've worked on a lot of different types of projects. Some of those projects I was in control of, some I weren't. But it you know, I have definitely been a part of projects where the location was kind of an afterthought, right, where that here's the script, this is what we're going to do.
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Clark
Okay, We've got our cast. Ed, You know, all these things are kind of laid out and then it's like, okay, where are we going to shoot this? You know? And I've been even where the director wasn't even a part of the, you know, the the location scouting or where it was really just, you know, very little thought was put into it.
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Clark
Unfortunately. And, you know, they had done all this work in pre-production on so many other things. And we kind of get, you know, now we're down to a sliver of our schedule that's left for pre-production. And then now it's like, where are we going to shoot this thing? And it's it's so, you know, it can so make or break your film.
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Cullen
Can suffer for it.
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Clark
So it well, I mean, you know I think you know a lot of people are like obviously cast is vital. You know obviously the script is vital and a so much emphasis is put on those things and rightfully so. They're important. But I so many times I've seen where location is an afterthought. And whether it's an exterior interior, I mean, you cannot overstate the importance and especially especially as you know, maybe of filmmaker who's just starting out or a filmmaker who doesn't have a huge budget.
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Clark
One of the the the most opportunity to increase your your production, you know, the your your production design to to is to is to find an amazing location whether it's an interior exterior. But you could oh my gosh. That can just, you know, just blow up the size and scope of your film. And so there's a tremendous amount of opportunity to there.
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Cullen
I mean, I think it's hilarious because I'm sure that you agree that whenever I go to a new I went to a some friends and I rented a cottage this summer to go up for my birthday up in Cottage Country north again, north of Toronto. And this place that we rented. Anytime I go into a new place, my immediate thought is like, how can I shot here?
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Speaker 3
Yes, yes.
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Cullen
And so, like, it was this beautiful, beautiful, old, dark.
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Speaker 3
Kind of make a note of.
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Cullen
That farmhouse. And I did. Yeah. Yes. It's again, it's one of those things that in the feature that I'm coming up on right now, that is one of the potential locations that we're like, let's see if we can rent that in the spring and.
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Speaker 3
Absolutely.
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Cullen
Be there.
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Clark
Absolutely. And so it's a this is an important kind of just, you know, a simple logistical thing. I mean, in your day to day life, always kind of be thinking, you know, how might I use this location again in another time, or what stories might even spring forth from this location. You know, sometimes the story can be inspired by the location that you've got available.
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Clark
So but I'm curious, too, I want to go back to the story where you said, you know, you had to go hiking kind of out into the rural area a little bit to find a location for your western at night, because I think this is really important to Herzog's way of working. I tell me about if or not or how if so, that trek out into the woods kind of flavored or had an impact on the actual shooting that you did there because I have a hunch that the investment that you had to make in getting all the way out there and how that location and kind of had its own vibe or have it
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Clark
had its own kind of impact on your crew and cast, did it tell me about that alone.
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Cullen
Oh, yeah. I mean, it was funny. Yes. As we walked out there, we actually would stop occasionally and shoot some unplanned scenes that, you know, for there was there was a big montage sequence in it that of like a travel kind of sequence. And we would just kind of be walking to basically the end of this hike. There's a big waterfall.
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Cullen
That was the goal of what we were trying to get, and that was the point of it. But, you know, occasionally we'd be like, That tree looks really cool. Let's, you know, set up here for 10 minutes and get a shot of of our lead actor walking around that tree or sleeping on it or something and then.
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Speaker 3
Right inspired it inspired other other shots.
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Cullen
And it even got to a point where we as we were walking there, we found a location for another scene that we didn't shoot that day because we needed other actors there. But it was one of those things where we didn't know we were going to shoot that scene and we saw this great lakeside location and we went, Oh, that's perfect.
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Cullen
Let's let's come back here in a few weeks with our other actors and shoot that scene there. But I think that it was I mean, it was a super, super small shoot, like it was literally me, a another guy who was sort of the stand in for the villain because he was very, very much off screen. Like it was basically just an over its shoulder that we need that villain for.
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Cullen
Yeah. And then the lead actor and that stand in guy was also helping me with some gear and stuff like that. And it's a behind the scenes sound and things like that. But yeah, no, I think, I mean it was a lot of it really. I think if anything and it goes back to kind of like we mentioned before, that the whole idea of green screen versus, you know, doing it for real, which I think not only for the audience to believe in it.
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Cullen
Like I kind of want to add something on to that point. I think it makes the actors.
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Speaker 3
Absolutely.
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Cullen
In it more to like if you're even down or if you have a special effect on something. There's a huge difference between acting, you know, opposite a puppet versus acting opposite tennis ball on like a C stand.
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Speaker 3
Well, that does.
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Clark
Something, you know, And location absolutely affects you.
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Cullen
Exactly.
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Clark
The cast and crew. And I want and it's interesting, you know, I want to tie this in a little bit to this walking thing. You know, if if you've not in this lesson, I don't think. But in in in other lessons and in other interviews and discussions that Herzog had, he talks about the importance of walking as a mode of traveling.
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Clark
Yes. And I just what I think this is an interesting time to bring this up. And in the master class now, we've not talked a lot or maybe at all, frankly, about the exercises that go along with the master class videos. But I want to bring up one of them here because I think it's it's especially interesting and it's changed actually since when the class was first put up.
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Clark
And now there is a there's an exercise that talks about walking and it in its original form, the exercise was to walk 100 miles in any direction.
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Speaker 3
Yeah.
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Clark
And I think now it says something like just walk a little bit or walk.
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Speaker 3
You know, I don't remember the exact sort of verbiage, but it's, you know.
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Clark
Right. They've taken 100 miles out. And I have a hunch it's maybe because the legal team looked at it was like, oh.
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Speaker 3
Yeah, we might get some people, you know, who get lost or get hurt.
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Clark
And then they come back and say, Hey, but.
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Speaker 3
Master class, you told me to go walk 100 miles.
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Clark
So I have a hunch that maybe that's what happened, but when you and I took the class, when it was first uploaded, it was 100 miles. And. And I did that exercise. Of course, not in one day, but over the course of I think it took me four days or so and I actually did it near you. Oh, yeah.
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Clark
Around Niagara and Toronto. And I just want to say, I mean, you talked about how just in this brief kind of hike that you took where you kind of started to become one with your environment, you started to become aware of other opportunities for scenes and, you know, other shots. And I just want to say in general, it is I really do agree with Herzog here the importance of walking as a mode of travel to help you just heighten your senses, be more present, notice more around you, take some walks around your neighborhood.
00;16;27;10 - 00;16;49;12
Clark
Mm hmm. And instead of driving, instead of you know, where you're preoccupied and you're just on your way somewhere. And the journey is not important. Make the journey the thing and go walk, spend. I mean, days. Walk in your neighborhood, and you'll start to see your environment in such a different way. You'll see things that you never noticed before.
00;16;49;12 - 00;16;53;27
Clark
And you may really find some extraordinary locations, too.
00;16;54;01 - 00;17;04;18
Cullen
Here's here's a question for you. Did you have any moments on your walk where you went? I could shoot a movie about that or, you know, I could, you know, like any story ideas pop in your head or location.
00;17;04;18 - 00;17;05;14
Speaker 3
Absolute something.
00;17;05;14 - 00;17;43;09
Clark
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It you know, it was a so there was that but it was also just you know let me see it without trying to digress too much. I mean, it also I think is important for your state of mind as as an artist or as a creator, not to get too highfalutin here, but I there's something about kind of separating yourself from the day to day routine and the focus on getting stuff done and the focus of your goals and tasks and just the speed at which our life kind of is lived.
00;17;43;09 - 00;18;01;10
Clark
In today's day and age. There's something about pulling yourself out of that a bit and getting your feet on the ground and your head in, you know, just being outside and the sun on your face and the wind at your back. Hopefully, maybe it's in your face, you're having to go against it.
00;18;01;10 - 00;18;04;02
Speaker 3
But either way, who knows? But but to really.
00;18;04;02 - 00;18;24;02
Clark
Like, be connected and be present. And, you know, Herzog talks about that in this lesson. He says, you know, look, when I when I was shooting Agora, or maybe it was Fitzcarraldo, I think one of the two of those films, it's like, you know, I went and I ate their food. I lived in their villages. I you know, he in the same way that he's emphasized becoming one with your subject.
00;18;24;02 - 00;18;55;05
Clark
And this is when we're talking about the Peregrine book and also about becoming one with your location to extend and allowing that to impact you, to impact you in a poetic way and to raise your like to heighten your senses. And I think that's what Walking did for me. And I felt like it heightened my senses. It slowed me down and made me more present and and absolutely it's so it's more than just did I get some story ideas or did I find some locations?
00;18;55;18 - 00;19;27;12
Clark
I just felt like it was generally healthy and inspirational as just an artist in general. It's like a meditation. And and I've used meditation as, as preparations to kind of whenever I go into an artistic endeavor. Again, I don't want to get too far off the beaten path here, but what the heck? Just real quick, it's like when I was primarily pursuing acting, I would when I was getting ready to, you know, do some homework to work on a scene or work on a you know, work on whatever kind of story I was working on.
00;19;27;21 - 00;19;53;04
Clark
I would take about 15 minutes to a half hour to separate myself from the day, to separate myself from the my daily routines, my daily worries. And I would usually pick some kind of literature to meditate on. It was often the first letter of Rilke, or it was some Josef Cambell, but I would use that to kind of separate myself from regular life.
00;19;53;15 - 00;20;00;00
Clark
And I feel like walking is a really great way to do that, to So now I think.
00;20;00;24 - 00;20;01;15
Cullen
Sorry, go ahead.
00;20;01;15 - 00;20;04;14
Clark
No, I was just going to say and now I've kind of forgotten.
00;20;05;03 - 00;20;07;02
Speaker 3
The original thread here. No, I.
00;20;07;02 - 00;20;34;21
Cullen
Think I mean, I think it's interesting that you mentioned the idea of like getting into your surroundings and stuff, because, again, just to kind of go back to when we were talking about that, even just the hike to the waterfall that I that I was mentioning. Yeah. That the, you know, the lead actor, he got like sweaty and got, you know, actually felt like he had gone on this this, this long journey to to his family's farm which was the idea of the scene.
00;20;34;21 - 00;20;56;14
Clark
But and which is really it's kind of a microcosm a little bit. It's like let's look at, you know, Aguirre or Fitzcarraldo again, both of those films. I mean, you have a cast in a crew who are actually going on a real journey, and they're actually really doing the things that the film is about. Not that that always has to be the case, but I think that there is a correlation there.
00;20;56;14 - 00;21;17;12
Clark
There is, you know, it's like like you were saying, to actually get out there in nature, to take this walk, to do this thing and to pull yourself into sort of kind of another world, probably really helped your actor, not just in the physical esthetics that you describe, but probably in the mindset as well, I'm going to guess.
00;21;17;29 - 00;21;38;02
Cullen
Mm hmm. Yeah, definitely. I mean, and it's also, again, I think it's also one of those things where there's almost this this like switch of psychology that happens where people often think like, Oh, people are going to be pissed off if it's, you know, the weather's bad or if we have to be out on location or I find that people usually are happier to be out on location like people.
00;21;38;17 - 00;21;51;27
Cullen
Yeah. Oh really? At least in my experience, I've really enjoyed shooting. Like, even if it's in the winter. I mean, I've this was not movie I made, but I did shoot. We had a really bad winter here two years ago. We've had a bad couple of winters, but.
00;21;52;13 - 00;21;52;18
Speaker 3
I.
00;21;52;18 - 00;21;54;07
Clark
Thought you guys always had bad winters.
00;21;55;18 - 00;21;56;12
Speaker 3
In California.
00;21;56;28 - 00;22;05;17
Cullen
Sometimes. Yeah, exactly. But. But it was it was colder here than the surface of Mars two years ago, I think.
00;22;05;17 - 00;22;09;08
Clark
And do you have a Fahrenheit and Fahrenheit number for us?
00;22;09;18 - 00;22;15;23
Cullen
I mean, at that at that temperature, I think Fahrenheit and Celsius are pretty much the same. -45 degrees Celsius.
00;22;15;29 - 00;22;16;20
Speaker 3
Oh, my gosh.
00;22;17;00 - 00;22;18;15
Cullen
Which Fahrenheit?
00;22;18;20 - 00;22;19;19
Clark
It's crazy.
00;22;19;23 - 00;22;21;25
Cullen
But no. And it was so yeah, it was colder.
00;22;21;25 - 00;22;22;14
Speaker 3
Ridiculous.
00;22;22;14 - 00;22;34;00
Cullen
-49 Fahrenheit. Yeah, yeah, colder than the temperature of the surface of Mars. And like, so-called that the cameras weren't working. Like, we would turn on a camera and.
00;22;34;14 - 00;22;34;29
Speaker 3
For.
00;22;34;29 - 00;22;36;17
Cullen
Maybe 2 minutes and stop working.
00;22;36;17 - 00;22;38;27
Speaker 3
But also this a red. Was this a red.
00;22;38;27 - 00;22;45;14
Cullen
Or a blue? Well, this was a face. This wasn't my camera. This was a face or some seven, I think.
00;22;45;18 - 00;22;45;29
Clark
Okay.
00;22;45;29 - 00;23;04;09
Cullen
So only seven. And again, it was it was but it was like there was honestly like there's kind of an element of charm of just like feeling like, you know, this is filmmaking. Like we're out here making a movie in the winter and this is kind of what we get. And there was nobody was in bad spirits. Nobody was in, you know, a grumpy mood or anything.
00;23;04;09 - 00;23;20;24
Cullen
Everyone was kind of like, Yeah, you know what this is? And I think similarly with the group that, you know, you and I met through how many times did we sort of, you know, half jokingly, but also half seriously say like, hey, if we got a spot to shoot a movie in Antarctica, I'd be on that plane in an instant.
00;23;20;29 - 00;23;26;14
Cullen
Yeah, it was one of those things too, where it's like, it'll be difficult and it'll be cold and it'll be, you know, how weird.
00;23;26;15 - 00;23;27;24
Speaker 3
I think that's part of it, right?
00;23;27;25 - 00;23;33;16
Cullen
But I think, you know, there's that, there's that, yeah. There's that kind of war like attitude where you're like, Let's go through the.
00;23;33;23 - 00;23;34;16
Speaker 3
Trenches and.
00;23;34;17 - 00;23;58;25
Clark
It's an adventure. And I Yeah, and I agree. I mean, I think it certainly is a good way to separate the people who are truly invested in your project and those who aren't. If you do have somebody who's completely unwilling to go on that adventure and go on that journey within reason, right? I mean, I just want to take a step back and say, you know, you should be providing some necessities to your casting.
00;23;58;25 - 00;23;59;21
Speaker 3
Oh, of course.
00;23;59;22 - 00;24;29;05
Clark
You know, I mean, within reason. But yeah, I mean, I think one of the things that draws most of us to filmmaking is that it is an adventure. It's a it's a collaborative adventure. It's a journey. And it's often one that does involve quite a bit of struggle and challenge, but it's also one that involves a lot of finding yourself and coming to understand yourself and other people better through these challenges and overcoming them so or enduring them sometimes.
00;24;29;05 - 00;24;53;11
Clark
Maybe you don't always overcome them, but just enduring them alone is. So yeah, I think that location is a big part of that. And again, it's, you know, can you imagine, you know, a Gary, if they would have filmed that in a studio pool or Fitzcarraldo, if they would have, you know, filmed that with miniatures, I mean, it's laughable because, you know, it's it's just so integral to the film.
00;24;53;24 - 00;25;08;26
Cullen
Yeah. It makes such a huge difference. I mean, even just just I mean, look at any you look at any movie. And of course, like I mention this a lot because they're they're movies that I grew up with, at least. But the like Lord of the Rings is a movie that's filled with special effects.
00;25;08;27 - 00;25;10;26
Speaker 3
Oh, God. Yeah. It's it's like three.
00;25;10;26 - 00;25;12;15
Clark
Quarters of those films are CGI. But at.
00;25;12;15 - 00;25;19;03
Cullen
The same time, you look at the locations that they went to for those that like, you know, they built the shire, they went and built a.
00;25;19;18 - 00;25;19;25
Clark
It's.
00;25;19;25 - 00;25;42;07
Cullen
True the castle atop a mountain. And then you look at the difference between those movies and how, how real and authentic those movies do feel in a lot of those moments where they are legitimately on location versus something like The Hobbit, which again, same director, same franchise. Yeah, but 99% of The Hobbit, it was shot on green screen, whereas very, very little of the live action stuff and Lord of the Rings was shot on green screen.
00;25;42;14 - 00;25;46;21
Cullen
Most of the special effects, lot of the rings are just miniatures that would have been otherwise impossible to shoot.
00;25;46;25 - 00;26;10;24
Clark
And I did see a light, and I do feel like the weakest parts of the Lord of the Rings trilogies are those just full blown CGI sequences? Yeah, Frankly, you know, I feel that is the weakest. But I mean, look, I and, and I yeah, I you know, location is a is a vital aspect of having a real location grounding people to to being able to believe their own eyes in a film.
00;26;10;24 - 00;26;24;23
Clark
And I mean I just want to use this as an opportunity to throw in one of my favorite films of all time is not a Herzog film, but but but the Mad Max films. And I'm just going to find a way. I'm just going to try to find a way to, like, bring in George Miller and met.
00;26;25;00 - 00;26;25;27
Cullen
With everywhere.
00;26;25;27 - 00;26;26;13
Speaker 3
Even though they're.
00;26;26;13 - 00;26;57;18
Clark
Everywhere. But I mean, I do want to say I mean, look, you know, especially I'll use the Road Warrior as an example that that last 30 minutes of that film where you've got this this 30 minute long car chase basically is 100% real. It's real stunt men and women at speed, in real cars, on a real road in the middle of, you know, the actual Australian desert outback, you know, performing these stunts.
00;26;57;18 - 00;27;05;29
Clark
And it's still one of the greatest 30 minutes of just of kinetic filmmaking that I've ever seen. And the reason being it's real.
00;27;06;17 - 00;27;10;26
Cullen
And you look at the newest one, too, though, like you and Fury Road, so much of that movie was real.
00;27;11;00 - 00;27;13;15
Speaker 3
Yes, absolutely. And I don't mean to take away.
00;27;13;24 - 00;27;20;19
Clark
Yeah. And that film as well, although they did utilize CGI there are a lot to manipulate backgrounds and things like that.
00;27;20;20 - 00;27;22;01
Cullen
The dust storms and things like that.
00;27;22;01 - 00;27;22;27
Clark
Yeah, exactly.
00;27;22;27 - 00;27;42;19
Cullen
But the reason I wanted to mention that was just because I think it's so integral to kind of talk about the fact that it's still can be done that, you know, you don't like. I think a lot of people just think that CGI is the way you do it these days. But even a movie in our movie that I'm not even that big of a fan of, but Interstellar, the Nolan one from 2014, the part.
00;27;42;21 - 00;27;43;24
Speaker 3
Of Matthew McConaughey.
00;27;44;07 - 00;27;57;15
Cullen
Like they went out to glaciers. They even the even the miniature effects are like they they used projectors instead of green screens to projected stars on the outside of like spaceship windows and things like.
00;27;57;15 - 00;27;59;18
Speaker 3
That, which can't be done. Yeah, not the hugest fan of.
00;27;59;18 - 00;28;19;18
Cullen
The movie, but but I think that the special effects and things like that in the way that they went and use locations and real, real, you know, visceral kind of things that you can feel and you can touch. I think that's the important thing. I don't think CG is ever going to get to a point that that will be able to perfectly replicate that.
00;28;19;18 - 00;28;25;05
Cullen
Because simply put, I think that, you know, there's there's just a difference on set that.
00;28;25;08 - 00;28;26;09
Speaker 3
Exactly people who.
00;28;26;09 - 00;28;26;21
Cullen
Are making.
00;28;26;21 - 00;28;27;13
Speaker 3
Even even.
00;28;27;13 - 00;28;41;18
Clark
When CGI gets to the place where it can perfectly, perfectly emulate reality, it will not have done that for a cast and crew. And and I think that's that's that's really vital.
00;28;41;18 - 00;28;42;01
Speaker 3
So.
00;28;42;24 - 00;29;14;28
Clark
I mean, let's see, what else do you know I want to talk about? So we've talked about the importance of location. And I think we've made it pretty clear we agree with Herzog locations are vital. It's an amazing opportunity for you as a filmmaker to increase your production value to to connect your audience viscerally, to have them believe in their own eyes when they watch your film, you know, And let's talk about, okay, well, like, how do you get these locations then, Right?
00;29;14;28 - 00;29;24;07
Clark
I mean, okay. So, yes, locations are important. Sure. We all agree. How do we get these locations? And Herzog.
00;29;24;20 - 00;29;25;16
Cullen
Won't get them all.
00;29;26;01 - 00;29;27;19
Speaker 3
Anyway. You certainly won't get them all.
00;29;27;19 - 00;29;51;22
Clark
But you know it. And of course. And it wouldn't be Herzog if this weren't the case. You know, I love on the one hand, he says, hey, you've got to be respectful of permits and respectful, be, you know, act with honor with the people that you you meet and come in contact with. He has several examples of, you know, giving his word when he said he wouldn't use footage, I think it was in North Korea.
00;29;51;23 - 00;29;52;06
Speaker 3
Yes.
00;29;52;20 - 00;30;05;28
Clark
Of course, you know, couldn't see the faces of these soldiers. But then, of course, you know, in the previous breath, he talked about forging permit documents of even forging, you know, the Peruvian president's signature on a.
00;30;06;24 - 00;30;14;02
Speaker 3
On a military kind of on pass. Right? Yeah, with a permit with for a location there. And so I just I love.
00;30;14;02 - 00;30;35;21
Clark
How he does that. I mean, it's it's one of the things that's so endearing to me about Herzog is that he is like the antithesis of dogmatic. I mean, it seems like he's just look, you know, situation to situation. You've got to, you know, think about what, you know, each of these situations and some of them, they call for forging documents and some of them may call for being completely honest and honorable.
00;30;37;16 - 00;30;38;21
Clark
It's just so interesting.
00;30;38;25 - 00;30;43;26
Cullen
Do you have any experience? I have some experience that is sort of similar.
00;30;43;26 - 00;30;46;16
Speaker 3
Maybe it was a little. Okay, let's hear it. Yeah, Yeah, let's hear it.
00;30;47;07 - 00;30;58;27
Cullen
So again, for this western we had, we've been looking for a few locations. So there's a law in Ontario that you can't that farmer can't burn down a barn for some reason. Like if you want to.
00;30;58;27 - 00;30;59;14
Speaker 3
Rebuild your.
00;30;59;14 - 00;31;01;26
Cullen
Barn, you can't burn it down. I don't know.
00;31;01;26 - 00;31;04;09
Clark
Why we have to tear it. I guess Maybe. Is it like an.
00;31;04;09 - 00;31;05;21
Speaker 3
Environmental, maybe.
00;31;05;21 - 00;31;18;13
Cullen
Something like that? However, there is a caveat in that law that you are allowed to burn it down if it is for a movie. So there are a whole bunch of farmers around Ontario, like farmers who are like, I just want to burn down my barns. They'll let you burn it down for free.
00;31;18;13 - 00;31;21;17
Clark
And now this is I have never heard anything like this before.
00;31;21;17 - 00;31;21;22
Cullen
Yeah.
00;31;21;23 - 00;31;23;16
Speaker 3
Which is I think is fun. Yeah.
00;31;23;24 - 00;31;39;01
Cullen
But we so unfortunately we did not wind up burning down a barn as much as we wanted to. However, we were looking at all these locations like old historic houses. And again, this, this provincial park near me. And we were trying to do the official thing where we were getting in touch with all these places and saying, Hey, we want to shoot here.
00;31;39;26 - 00;31;55;27
Cullen
You know, what's what's like the process of getting a permit and blah, blah, blah. And a lot of times it was things where it's like, well, you need upwards of $1,000,000 of insurance, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, stuff like that. And it's like, well, we are a tiny, you know, it's like four person crew with a shoestring budget.
00;31;55;27 - 00;32;18;03
Cullen
We don't have that type of money. So we did eventually just kind of go, let's just bring our cameras, let's just bring a lot of backpacks and go for a hike. And just every once in a while we'll set up right and set up shop. Now, the most, I would say risky time we did that was same location, that provincial park.
00;32;18;03 - 00;32;33;15
Cullen
And it was when I mentioned earlier that we had we said, let's come back here and shoot this location, that scene here at this lakeside think really beautiful location. The issue with that part was that the initial place we were going to shoot that that was less interesting was very close to my house. And it needed guns. Fake guns, of course.
00;32;33;18 - 00;32;46;18
Cullen
Right. And so it was way we were right at our house. Yeah. So we said, how can we possibly shoot this and be careful and make sure that there's nothing going to be, you know, the police are going to be called or that people aren't going to freak out and that we're not going to get.
00;32;46;18 - 00;32;47;17
Speaker 3
Arrested because at.
00;32;47;17 - 00;32;54;21
Clark
Least here in America, I don't know about Canada. But, you know, I mean, cops could just you know, if they thought you had a gun, they might just shoot you. Yeah.
00;32;54;22 - 00;32;55;19
Cullen
Open fire. Yeah.
00;32;56;00 - 00;32;56;10
Clark
Yeah.
00;32;57;01 - 00;33;15;01
Cullen
So we what we did was we bought these pylons. So yellow construction pylons that say film on them, film shoot, and we put them all over the trail like, like very near where we were shooting, but basically anywhere where you could see us, we had film shoot, film, shoot, film, shoot. And this was not official by any means.
00;33;15;01 - 00;33;21;05
Cullen
We didn't talk to the the, you know, the park guards or things like that. Park trooper things.
00;33;21;09 - 00;33;21;18
Speaker 3
Yeah.
00;33;22;05 - 00;33;41;19
Cullen
We, we, we just put all this stuff up so that anyone walking by would hopefully see these things. We had people standing at both ends of the trail around where we were shooting and we were just trying to make sure. And because at the end of the day, what we thought was, I'd rather, you know, have park ranger come up and say, Hey, you can't shoot here, you got to leave.
00;33;41;19 - 00;33;56;00
Cullen
And because they saw the pylons, then somebody walk by without the pylons, see someone holding a gun and go, you know, I'm calling the cops. Sure. But yeah, it was kind of a funny little thing where it was like, okay, we're going to be in and out in a half an hour. We're going to get this scene done.
00;33;56;00 - 00;34;19;11
Cullen
Luckily, there was no dialog. It was just a it was just like, you know, six or seven shots. Yeah. And, you know, at home, I mean, that goes for another thing with location, period, though I think that guns on set with guns on location, guns on set. I try to minimize that at all. Even even if it is a situation where you fully contacted the police and got all the safety, I think that still.
00;34;19;11 - 00;34;21;25
Clark
Is extra precaution. Yeah, sure. Absolutely.
00;34;22;16 - 00;34;39;19
Cullen
But no, it was it was it was kind of again, it was fun. Luckily, everything went smoothly and stuff like that. And but we had you know, that was the day that we had the most people on set specifically because we were like, We want to lock this down. Of course, we can't actually prevent people from coming through the space, but we wanted people of both ends to just sort of say, Hey, we're just doing a film shoot.
00;34;40;01 - 00;34;43;04
Cullen
You know, there's people in costume down there, so don't don't worry about them if you see them.
00;34;43;04 - 00;35;10;00
Clark
Yeah, usually people are. I mean, you asked me if I had any stories. Gosh, I, you know, living in L.A., in Southern California, I think it's there. There are greater requirements for permits. I think people you know, it's and I've even read I don't know if this is 100% sure, but I like to read I mean, if you're shooting in your own home and you've got, you know, X number of people or something like that, you still have to get a permit.
00;35;10;00 - 00;35;30;10
Clark
I mean, obviously the city is extremely savvy, you know, But it's very not nobody. But it is more people are likely to demand compensation for locations because it's I mean, this is just you know, it's a center of this industry and yeah, you know, you're not going to be able to put a camera on stakes and go out on the street and shoot.
00;35;30;11 - 00;35;55;26
Clark
It's just not for very long. So you really do have to hone, hone your shot stealing techniques. And boy, I mean, I've done it all, you know, whether it's, you know, like just rigging cars with cameras and driving down Hollywood Boulevard to get exterior shots without having to get out of the car and, you know, using smaller, quote unquote, less professional looking cameras because it draws less attention.
00;35;56;10 - 00;35;57;27
Cullen
You could play off as a tourist.
00;35;57;27 - 00;36;13;09
Clark
And I mean, it's yeah, I've it's just a matter of fact, I'm trying to think where I have in a production that I've been a major part of actually had permits and it's far and few between.
00;36;14;15 - 00;36;14;27
Speaker 3
Very.
00;36;14;27 - 00;36;33;29
Clark
Far and few between. But you know, one of the benefits of living here, even though you're in L.A., is that you're surrounded by so many different landscapes. I've shot in Death Valley, and we've just gone out to Death Valley and shot. You want to talk about an amazing location to shoot? We didn't get any permits. We just went out there.
00;36;34;08 - 00;36;45;12
Clark
Now, one of the drawbacks of that, though, was that we didn't realize it was still going to be so high. And I got heat stroke almost, and we're throwing up everywhere. It was about 120 degrees.
00;36;45;12 - 00;36;45;22
Speaker 3
Yeah.
00;36;46;01 - 00;37;06;05
Clark
But so you've got to be careful. Do your research about your location. But, but yeah, I mean I've, I've shot in Griffith Park without permits and just we got there at the crack of dawn. We, we shot a sunrise to get a little golden hour in. But to do it when we there'd be a lot less people and that worked out.
00;37;07;27 - 00;37;27;00
Clark
Yeah. I've one of the other tricks that I've used a lot and boy I hope this isn't going to give anything away here that's going to give me in trouble. But I have maybe heard of I'll just say this. I've heard of other people doing this thing where they will rent a location on Airbnb and say that.
00;37;27;01 - 00;37;29;09
Speaker 3
They don't give it away.
00;37;29;29 - 00;37;32;20
Clark
And and then they actually shoot.
00;37;32;21 - 00;37;36;03
Cullen
A movie. Don't give it away. Don't give it.
00;37;36;03 - 00;37;39;16
Speaker 3
Away. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so I've heard of people doing that.
00;37;39;16 - 00;37;41;00
Clark
I've heard of people doing that.
00;37;41;13 - 00;37;42;28
Cullen
Oh, I would.
00;37;42;28 - 00;38;03;08
Clark
And it's potentially cheaper. It's substantially cheaper than actually going to somebody and saying, Hey, I've got it, I want to shoot a film. Can you, can you rent me your location for a film shooting? So you know it. But it is, it's a line of, you know, and it's a tough one because I really don't want to be dishonest to anyone.
00;38;04;22 - 00;38;26;23
Cullen
I mean, I think it's it's the it's the difference to me. And I mean, it's interesting you mentioned the beginning of the Herzog verse. You know, him talking to the North Korean guard versus him with the Peruvian army. Yeah, it was Peru. Yeah. And I think to me, I think that the distinction there is is like, what's worth the risk?
00;38;26;28 - 00;38;30;05
Cullen
What is a worth the risk? But also, where's the horror?
00;38;30;05 - 00;38;30;21
Speaker 3
Well, and why.
00;38;30;22 - 00;38;31;00
Cullen
Is.
00;38;31;08 - 00;38;31;16
Speaker 3
It like.
00;38;31;16 - 00;38;46;14
Clark
What are you doing? Right. Yeah, it's like I think there are, you know, these things aren't ethically black and white. It's a gray area and I think there is like a there there is bureaucracy, which is just basically red tape. Right. Which is.
00;38;46;14 - 00;38;47;13
Cullen
Is the most annoying thing.
00;38;47;13 - 00;39;07;17
Clark
In the world. You're not hurting, right? You're not hurting someone. You're not you know, you're violating a rule of bureaucracy, right? Yeah. But you aren't putting anyone at risk. You aren't, you know, taking away someone's livelihood. You're not hurting their property. You're not, you know. So I think that's what I get a sense of, at least for myself.
00;39;07;25 - 00;39;27;22
Clark
And it seems like this is what Herzog is saying. You know, you don't ever want to put yourself in a place where you're damaging someone's property or damaging nature, even frankly, although, of course, I think that Herzog quite got some flak about destroying some of the Amazon there when he moved that ship over the hill. And that's a whole other conversation.
00;39;27;22 - 00;39;50;19
Clark
But, I mean, you know, there is there is definitely breaking bureaucracy, you know, breaking rules that are just kind of bureaucracy and breaking rules that are actually putting people at risk are hurting. People are, you know, so each of us as filmmakers have to kind of thread that needle and walk that line just as we do in life.
00;39;51;01 - 00;39;51;10
Speaker 3
Yeah.
00;39;51;19 - 00;40;15;16
Cullen
I've got I've got a funny maybe one final little personal anecdote, too, involved in this, this idea of like risk and and this Herzog's style of shooting, perhaps. And I hope that I don't get in trouble for it because it will still technically work for this place. But yeah, so it wasn't a movie that I was making. It's a friend of mine who I actually taught initially and has become sort of somewhat of a colleague kind of since I taught him.
00;40;16;05 - 00;40;33;17
Cullen
And he was doing this, this very, you know, wild kind of fun, crazy movie that he that he's been making for the past year feature. And one of the shots required him and his friends to be on the top. Our former high school lighting fireworks.
00;40;33;24 - 00;40;36;11
Speaker 3
You know that they already know.
00;40;36;18 - 00;40;37;19
Clark
Of where this is going.
00;40;38;04 - 00;40;41;00
Cullen
I he said, I need someone to operate the camera here.
00;40;41;08 - 00;40;43;04
Clark
Wait, do we need a disclaimer? Do we need to.
00;40;43;04 - 00;40;44;08
Cullen
Be I don't do this.
00;40;44;08 - 00;40;45;21
Speaker 3
Don't do this at home? Yeah.
00;40;45;22 - 00;41;04;22
Cullen
Our lawyers are telling us to say not to do this. So I just I was actually on the roof with them, though. I was just on in the parking lot operating the camera. But the funny thing was that I actually had to be at this guy work at my former high school. Now, I do a lot of both, like course, content advisory for the film course and things like that and guest artist work and some, you know, promotional work for them.
00;41;05;14 - 00;41;17;24
Cullen
I had to be there that day to work and so I was there at like six in the morning as the sunrise filming this kid and his friend on the roof lighting up fireworks.
00;41;18;00 - 00;41;18;28
Speaker 3
Oh my. And I was.
00;41;18;28 - 00;41;23;11
Cullen
Like terrified that there were going to be cops called because I was it's kind of hard to discretely light fireworks.
00;41;23;20 - 00;41;23;28
Speaker 3
Yeah.
00;41;24;11 - 00;41;31;26
Cullen
And then so that happens. We all just struck everything, instantly drove away. We had this like meeting point set so we could get away. It was like a bank robbery night.
00;41;31;26 - 00;41;32;18
Speaker 3
And then, you know.
00;41;32;19 - 00;41;47;18
Cullen
I went back to bed for like an hour, woke up and went to work at the exact place that I was, which is hilarious. But I mean, it does come in to like like you said, you know, it's anyone's livelihood at risk. That's a great story. But William Friedkin on the French Connection talking to I don't know who it was.
00;41;47;18 - 00;42;01;14
Cullen
It wasn't I don't know it was the head of the MTA, but it was some sort of department head at the MTA. And he said, you know, Friedkin goes up to him and says, We want to do this, this chase scene on the subway where the cars chase in the subway. And we want to get it all as real as we can.
00;42;02;02 - 00;42;02;24
Cullen
The car actually.
00;42;02;24 - 00;42;03;02
Clark
There's a.
00;42;03;06 - 00;42;04;03
Speaker 3
Subway delay.
00;42;04;16 - 00;42;24;08
Cullen
And the the MTA guy said, you know, I would love to let you do it, but I'd be fired. I would be fired and never be able to get another job in this industry in my life. And William Friedkin said, okay, I'll give you a selection of the profits of the movie. Oh, he let us do this. I have not so that if you get fired, you can you can, you know, you can retire.
00;42;24;24 - 00;42;42;26
Cullen
And the guy was like, well, I don't know if it's going to be a good success, blah, blah, blah. And Friedkin convinced him eventually. So he did it and he let him do it. They did that amazing cars chase under the subway and on the subway and all that. Yeah. And the guy got fired. But now then he retired immediately because he made, you know, the movie did well, and so he made this money and this is legit.
00;42;42;27 - 00;42;44;10
Speaker 3
This is legitimate. I mean.
00;42;44;14 - 00;42;52;14
Cullen
I've never read it. A legitimate account of it, but it's a kind of maybe it's a lifestyle, but I'm pretty sure it's actually true. I heard it at a screening of The French Connection.
00;42;52;14 - 00;43;27;13
Clark
Well, maybe if any of our listeners here, you know, we can call out the cumulative mind here, you know, the head here of our audience. And if anybody hears anything more about this, but it's a great story. And at Friedkin, I believe it could happen. Yeah. So no, yeah. It's you know and it's it is it's it as with, you know, I think one of the wonderful things about filmmaking in general is that it is like such a creative I mean, it's just every single aspect of filmmaking is this gray problem solving area.
00;43;27;13 - 00;43;35;03
Cullen
I describe it sometimes as the, you know, you're building a sandcastle on a beach and the waves are coming in and it's literally just using your hands to clean the restaurant.
00;43;35;15 - 00;43;37;02
Clark
And sometimes frantically.
00;43;37;02 - 00;43;37;28
Speaker 3
Right, right, right.
00;43;39;12 - 00;44;03;29
Clark
Wow. Well, you know, it's interesting that you talked about you felt like it was a heist because I love it. It's you know, again, in in wonderful Herzog style, he finishes this lesson with such a great, you know, quote or statement. And he talks about, you know, it's like, you know, what's that? What's the final rule? The final rule is leave, get away with film.
00;44;03;29 - 00;44;26;21
Clark
Leave with film. You know, do what you must. Don't complain. Buckle up, get away with film. And I love this analogy that he makes that we're thieves, you know, And that the loot that were the loot that we're out to get is, is, is film. And you've got to go to these amazing places, right? I mean, that's where the treasure is hidden.
00;44;27;07 - 00;44;45;08
Clark
That's what. Right. It's not on the beaten path. It's not out in the open. It's not the thing that's been shot a million times before. You've got to go out there and find new visions to bring back to an audience. You've got to go find those treasures and that we're like bank robbers. And what we do is hit and run.
00;44;45;08 - 00;44;46;26
Clark
And I just oh, God.
00;44;47;23 - 00;44;52;02
Cullen
It's a great line. I mean, he could inspire anyone to go out and shoot right now. I think.
00;44;52;20 - 00;44;53;28
Speaker 3
I'm telling you, like I'm getting.
00;44;53;28 - 00;45;17;26
Clark
Excited. I'm like, okay, God, you know, I've been with COVID and everything. I've been doing so much planning, writing, planning pre-production, and I've not gotten to get out and shoot in a long time. And I'm like, especially as I as I reiterate Herzog's words here, I feel like I've got to I'm getting in spite of that urge. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00;45;17;26 - 00;45;34;17
Clark
And so I think that's, you know, that's a great way to look at it. And I think, you know, it's like maybe we're a Robin Hood, you know, of where we're like stealing from the rich and giving to the poor, you know? But we're taking these visions, taking the, you know, being able to, to.
00;45;34;21 - 00;45;35;10
Speaker 3
But I mean, that's that's.
00;45;35;21 - 00;45;41;03
Cullen
About that's what I like about film is that even when you are stealing, you're not actually taking anything you're replicating.
00;45;41;11 - 00;45;41;18
Speaker 3
Yeah.
00;45;41;18 - 00;45;46;25
Cullen
And it's the same, it's the same thing that, that classic thing of just like, you know, the trophy hunter versus the photographer.
00;45;47;03 - 00;45;47;19
Speaker 3
The target for.
00;45;47;19 - 00;45;51;11
Cullen
Just gets just as, you know, much more beautiful in my opinion of a result.
00;45;51;27 - 00;45;54;08
Speaker 3
That actually killing right? Yes.
00;45;54;12 - 00;46;09;20
Cullen
And I think that that kind of can be said for all film is that like, you know, especially with things like that's why I love to I know there's the there's the half of me that of course, is always whenever I'm seeing something amazing for the first time, if I'm in a mountain range, I love to take it in with my own eyes.
00;46;10;00 - 00;46;23;22
Cullen
But I also do like to have a camera there with me because I just it is also just so much fun to just discover new ways to capture that and to, you know, express it. Not to be one of those people that, you know, goes to a concert and holds their phone in front of their the whole time.
00;46;23;22 - 00;46;25;06
Speaker 3
Oh, God, please don't be.
00;46;25;06 - 00;46;35;14
Cullen
Like, that's the worst. But but I think there's a happy middle ground of of, you know, being able to take it in while you're there. But also be able to come out with something with it and.
00;46;35;26 - 00;46;36;11
Speaker 3
Be able.
00;46;36;11 - 00;46;36;16
Cullen
To.
00;46;36;23 - 00;46;37;04
Speaker 3
Yeah.
00;46;37;12 - 00;47;02;21
Clark
Footage and I agree and for me it is a little bit off the path here but for me it's it's a compartmentalization I guess in a sense. And I, I don't know how you think about this film as a whole. It got it's not a Herzog film. It got middling reviews, I think. But the what was the I know I can't remember the exact title, but it was the Walter Mitty movie.
00;47;02;22 - 00;47;04;12
Cullen
Oh, Secret Life of Walter Mitty, Secret.
00;47;04;12 - 00;47;04;27
Speaker 3
Ben Stiller.
00;47;05;04 - 00;47;30;26
Clark
And that Ben Stiller. But there is a fun scene near the end with Sean Penn where he is, you know, this don't want to give away the film so much, but it's, you know, basically Stiller's character ends up after a very long journey on this hillside, this mountainside, with Sean Penn. And they have this conversation. Sean Penn plays a like a world renowned photographer in the film.
00;47;30;26 - 00;47;47;18
Clark
And they have this conversation where Sean is like, you know, he's been searching for this moment for a very long period of time. And he's gone to great lengths to get this moment and he lets it go. He doesn't take a picture of it because he just wants to be in the moment and doesn't want the camera is a distraction.
00;47;48;06 - 00;48;15;11
Clark
And I, I for me, I've kind of compartmentalized where when I'm on a personal journey somewhere or I'm, you know, I'm there kind of like as an individual person, I tend to prefer to be present and to not have a camera with me or see what I'm seeing through that camera. But then I can like flip a switch and it's like, okay, now I'm like working.
00;48;15;18 - 00;48;25;22
Clark
I'm creating Clark. And I, you know, and then I get off the camera and I and I work. But for me, I see it as like I've had to kind of compartmentalize it for me. So I don't know.
00;48;26;16 - 00;48;53;29
Cullen
Well, I think I mean, again, with this Iceland thing too was like Iceland, half a vacation and half of a footage banking kind of experience. So I could just get a bunch of B-roll in Iceland. But there was never a moment where I felt that I missed out on something. And again, it was similarly, I was very, very careful to make sure that, you know, if I was at a location, I was sitting there and enjoying it and looking at it and, then I'd go, okay, I'm going to, you know, set up my camera and I'm going to I'm going to.
00;48;54;06 - 00;48;58;25
Clark
Maybe I'm just old, maybe I'm just old. I think social media has got me really burned out from that.
00;48;59;02 - 00;48;59;25
Cullen
Perhaps Yeah.
00;48;59;25 - 00;49;15;06
Clark
And maybe it's just a generational thing, too. I know. I think a Herzog, you know, that he has talked about and I can't place exactly where this was, if it was an interview, if it I don't think it was in one of the masterclass as maybe it was in an interview or a guide for the perplexed or something I can't remember.
00;49;15;06 - 00;49;33;28
Clark
And maybe somebody can call that out for me where he talks about, you know, that there are private moments and that you keep that to yourself and that that's like for your own life. And then there is film. And so that kind of spoke to me. But yeah, I think for myself, I had to kind of compartmentalize it and kind of separate myself.
00;49;33;28 - 00;49;54;15
Clark
But, you know, sure, it's like it's not like you're you turn off this like I'm I'm always when I when I'm there or seen things. Okay, you know, what stories could this maybe tell? Wow this would you know what kind of what what look, you know, how could I use this location or something like that? But there's definitely moments where I'm like, in this experience right now.
00;49;54;15 - 00;49;57;05
Clark
Yeah. And I don't. I don't want to pull out of camera.
00;49;57;16 - 00;49;58;11
Cullen
No, totally.
00;49;58;11 - 00;50;00;07
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah.
00;50;00;07 - 00;50;11;00
Cullen
And maybe just before we wrap up, I did find out that it is it is in fact, true that they gave him a percentage of the budget and he lived happily ever after in Jamaica as well. The director, William Friedkin, says.
00;50;11;11 - 00;50;32;10
Clark
Well, I'll be damned. I mean, there's no better way to end the podcast than on that wonderful note. So there you go. All right. Well, thank you so much, Collin, as always. I've had a really thoroughly enjoyed our conversation here about locations and the Werner Herzog Masterclass live lesson. What was this one?
00;50;32;10 - 00;50;33;28
Cullen
Seven and seven? Yep.
00;50;34;04 - 00;50;41;03
Clark
Wow. It's just blowing my mind that we're already we're done here with with episode six of our podcast. This time flies when you having fun.
00;50;41;03 - 00;50;41;29
Speaker 3
All right. Exactly.
00;50;42;07 - 00;51;07;09
Clark
So next time, then, we will be discussing Herzog's masterclass Lesson eight, which is leading the platoon. That's going to be a fun one. All right. Well, thank you so much, as always. Cohen. It's been a pleasure. Thank you. Everybody out there for listening. We appreciate you. We hope that it's been fun and maybe even slightly informative. And until next time, everyone, have a wonderful week.
00;51;07;09 - 00;51;10;15
Clark
And steal those shots.
00;51;10;29 - 00;51;12;02
Cullen
And read, read.
00;51;12;02 - 00;51;15;21
Speaker 3
Written. All right. Bye, everyone.
00;51;15;27 - 00;51;16;12
Cullen
Bye bye.