Clark
Hey, everybody. Welcome to Soldiers of Cinema. The podcast. I'm Clark Coffey and with me today, as always, Cullen McFater. What's up? What's up, Cullen? Hello. How you doing? I'm doing all right. On today's episode, we are going to be discussing Herzog's Masterclass Lesson nine, which is all about set rules. Ooh, exciting stuff. Set rules. You love rules, right?
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Clark
Colin, you're like, I'm a.
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Cullen
Rules guy.
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Clark
No, but there is a there is some really good, really good, some some great content in here, you know, especially, I mean, we kind of imagine that most of the listeners here, you're either obviously interested in Herzog or you are an aspiring or, you know, filmmaker maybe in the beginning of your career. And he covers some really important stuff in this lesson.
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Clark
So we'll kind of dive in. But basically, you know, he talks about how to organize a set. And Herzog talks about himself personally being a one camera guy. He actually specifically calls out Mr. Christopher Nolan by name. And clearly he is fond of Mr. Nolan, I think because now it's funny, though, of course, because I think Nolan, in a lot of his action scenes in his films, uses like 20 cameras.
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Clark
Yeah. Just brings them up, which is. But but, you know, hey, there's always exceptions to the rule. But I think, you know, unless you're shooting a special effects shot or a big action scene, I think he he you know, I'm actually not sure. Do you know, does he stick to one camera? Does Nolan.
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Cullen
I think I mean, as far as I know, for his his like dialog and his his moment to moment stuff, that's not, you know, a huge effect shot where you're you're spending 2 million for a single shot. I do believe that it's it's one camera.
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Clark
And we'll go with that We'll say well Herzog okay.
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Cullen
What I do think is interesting, though, about even just the name of this this lesson being set rules is that it's not really traditional set rules even in like it's almost like.
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Clark
And Herzog.
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Cullen
Says like break certain certain kind of trends to make your set work better, which I think is interesting. It's not like, you know, you LaPierre's get the coffee, the guy's not.
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Clark
Over there in the chair. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yep, yep, yep. And we'll definitely get into that. But right. I think it's about, you know, I mean, you could almost say this is, you know, Herzog's take on how to create a conducive environment for great filmmaking. Yeah. Which, you know, with that being the focus as opposed to, you know, sometimes rules on a set can actually lead away from that.
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Clark
So we can definitely discuss that. But I think, you know, it's about creating an attitude of focus as well. And I think that's, you know, he also mentions Nolan shoots film celluloid and of course he does. I know he definitely does that. And I think, you know, Herzog has shot all kinds of different medium. And Nolan shoots.
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Cullen
Film for interesting reasons, too.
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Clark
It's not exactly.
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Cullen
The Yeah yeah. Well, it's not normally. I mean, a lot of people that shoot film, shoot film because they like the look of it, right? That they like, they like the grain they like the texture was nice.
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Clark
For the focus.
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Cullen
Several times on record, both the focus. But he also it's almost just like a traditional thing for him like that. He, he, he doesn't like grain in his images so he he likes the newest newest Kodak stocks that have very little grain. And he also but I think it's just his kind of way of going like this is how movies were made and should be made.
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Cullen
And it's sort of like a traditional.
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Clark
And I think, you know, Herzog talks about an attitude of focus and, you know, I don't know explicitly if her if sorry, if Nolan has come out and said this, but I know other filmmakers have now, I myself have not shot on film. I've been a part of projects that did shoot on film. I can tell you that there is a radical difference on set, though.
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Clark
Yeah, between shooting film mean especially 35 millimeter film and shooting digitally digital shots. You can shoot all day long and it's just a matter of hard drive space, right? But when you're running celluloid through the gate, I mean, it's a lot of money, you know? Yeah, yeah. And I mean, I've got a.
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Cullen
I've got ak3 16 millimeter camera sitting right beside me right now. And it's it's like shooting on that thing. And I do it very rarely because.
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Clark
I've got a mean business. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's you. Absolutely. It's not just for fun and I mean it's, you know, for anybody out there that still shoots with a film, still camera, you know what we mean? You know, look at the types of pictures that people shoot with their cell phones. Oh, my God. You know, it's like a can't.
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Clark
I wonder how many like, I don't even know what comes after, like, terabyte or. But G is a world is just filled with useless, ridiculous images of people's food or whatever else they have. Because, like, pictures don't cost anything to take anymore. You know, I feel like when when, when there was film, you would kind of, you know, you'd curate your images more carefully.
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Clark
Well, that's certainly what happens. I think, when you're when you're shooting.
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Cullen
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And not to not to divert too much, but but in relation to that, that's that's the exact reason why most of the time with I'm on vacation, I'll bring a film camera and a couple of rolls, a film because I don't want to be just looking through a camera the whole time. I want if I'm taking a picture, it's going to be.
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Cullen
You want a very special moment?
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Clark
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And so for that reason, I yeah, I think that definitely could contribute. But, you know, Herzog also talks about some other interesting things here. He talks about not having a director's chair. He actually uses the word load as he loads this, you know, to have his name on a chair, you know, and to have every actor and producer have a, you know, an area to like sit in and everything.
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Clark
I mean, I think it sounds like he there's probably a couple of reasons, if I read into this a little bit, that he doesn't like that kind of stuff. I think you know it it Herzog definitely wants his shoots to be a physical event, you know, an athletic endeavor, if you will.
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Cullen
And he doesn't like that diva stuff. He doesn't.
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Clark
Yeah. Yeah. And so whether it's like fancy trailers and, you know, you're in boss director's chairs and all this kind of stuff, I mean, what does that have to do with filmmaking? What does that have to do with getting an image on screen? Oh, it really doesn't, Right? Has nothing to do with it. And then you open up all these, you know, areas of, you know, introducing hierarchy.
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Clark
And this person is is worth more or more valuable than that person or why is this trailer, you know, this person's trailer bigger than mine or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And these things can just, you know, even on a smaller level, right. If you're if you're shooting, you know, very low budget micro-budget films and you're not dealing with trailers and things, you know, there can't be stuff like this.
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Clark
Get in the way, though, on a smaller scale. And so I do think it's a good idea to if you can save yourself money and you can save yourself drama by kind of just staying away from this whole area, you know, and.
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Cullen
How it's sort of almost like a trickle down effect that he talks about, where it's like if he doesn't have a director's chair, then everybody else might be kind of embarrassed, embarrassed, feel awkward about sitting in theirs. Right.
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Clark
I mean, which I think is a great point is Herzog right now to 77 or 70.
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Cullen
Two, he's either 72 or 70. I don't I think I look this up the other day.
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Clark
Yeah, he's in the seventies. I mean, we can say that for sure. He's in his seventies. And so I'm thinking, okay, you know, if if a guy in his mid seventies is not going to sit down between takes, if he's going to be doing it, then, you know, if you're a 25 year old actor on one of his projects, yeah, you're probably going to feel a little embarrassed if you've got to go, you know, get your super comfy trailer or your, you know, embossed fancy, you know, director's chair.
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Clark
So.
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Cullen
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
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Clark
But, you know, and there's a line, though. There's a line right between like, you know, no creature comforts or no, you know, I mean, you don't want to go so far as to, like, say, you know, that you're not going to provide crafty for people or, you know, I mean, obviously there's a line here, right?
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Cullen
I mean, my my philosophy on it is basically I want the set to be as comfortable as I can, but I want that comfort to contribute to work.
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Clark
I don't want it to contribute to and be equally applied. Exactly. Every single person, every single person on set. And certainly, you know, not indulging in things like this, I think make that a lot easier to achieve for sure. You know, he also talks about this one. This one is really interesting to me at getting into video villages.
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Clark
People some people swear by them, some people love them, some people. And Herzog, of course, is in the opposite camp. He's you know, he does not use a video village and he absolutely thinks that those are totally distracting and separate the director from actors. What's your take? Do you have it's one of the times.
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Cullen
On on his more sort of very very concrete views that I totally 100% agree with him. Yeah. I've worked on a lot of sets with video villages and I've worked on some like when I lead to I don't like any of that stuff. I don't really like monitors. I'm I'm sort of in the middle ground in a way that I, you know, I like to have my video village is an iPad my hands with a wireless monitor that's that's what I like because I enjoy if I if I'm not operating normally, I try to operate as much as I can.
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Cullen
But if I'm not operating and I'm away from the camera, then I have a I'm beside the camera with with, you know, the handheld monitor in my hands. And just so I can see the shot and the framing and all that, but but no, like, I think that and I've again, I've worked on sets where it's like the directors often the video village a take will happen and you just kind of hear like a shout like, Yeah, that was good.
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Cullen
Let's go again far away. And it's like, you're not, you know, you're not there. You're not sitting beside them going that it should you should be close. And you know, that's, that's like a bad word now because we're in the middle of this pandemic. But, but, you know, in normal times you should be I like to be physically as close as I can to kind of feel that energy.
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Cullen
And, you know.
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Clark
And I have to agree. And I you know, I've never worked on I've never worked on a project myself where I had a separate, you know, video village that was far away from the shooting. I've been you know, I've had monitors, you know, small monitors next to me, right? Mm hmm. But, you know, I it's interesting and wicked kind of.
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Clark
I'm like, I'm going to be kind of exploring this and thinking about this out loud right now in real time, because I don't you know, I don't know that I've got my ideas about this completely, perfectly, you know, polished and formulated. But I mean, and it's difficult to articulate, but there's a feeling there is certainly a feeling about whether I'm operating or whether and for me, my experience is more that I'm not operating, but I'm directing right next to the camera.
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Clark
There's something about and maybe this comes from my experience in theater and directing actors on stage, but it's I feel that it's so important for me to be in a, an intimate communion with the actors and almost like in the scene with them. Yeah. Now, obviously I'm behind the camera. I'm definitely not.
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Cullen
On your shoulders to speak.
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Clark
In it, but there's about, there's something about but but feeling their energy, right? Yes, right there. And to be able to witness all of these nuances of the performances as they're happening live right there somehow helps me feel feel almost like another actor, I guess. I almost feel like I'm in the scene with them.
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Cullen
I think for me, too, it's a lot of it is. I don't like feeling tethered, if that makes sense. I don't like feeling tethered to anything. So I, you know, again, that's why one of my first purchases when I got a you know, a fully fledged cinema camera was a wireless video transmitter so that I could exactly at your store.
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Cullen
So I can't be right there, but I got the, you know, rather than having to peek around and look at somebody else's monitor that the viewfinder or whatever, if I'm again, if I'm not operating, I can just have the the monitor in my hand and walk wherever I want, if I can if I want to set an eyeline for an actor, I can literally have the monitor in my hand and put my hand up and go, No, that looks good.
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Cullen
That looks pretty right there.
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Clark
But you're still able to be right there.
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Cullen
Yeah, I'm still right beside them.
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Clark
I feel like that's probably the best of both worlds because, you know, and Herzog talks about and I really think this is if you can afford it, this is really helpful us to have, you know, somebody else, an assistant director, somebody I don't know who you know, who this might be for your crew, depending on their size and everything.
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Clark
But to have, you know, somebody actually really focused on watching that output and just making sure that the technical aspect of this shot, just purely technical aspects of the shot, are, you know, are meeting expectation. Right. So it's just, you know, watching focus, framing, you know, that kind of thing. And maybe some you know, it's the consistency of script, consistency, that kind of continuity, things, stuff like that.
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Clark
And so I think that that could be important. I've certainly got myself, you know, because if talking about, you know, only the good aspects of being right there in the action and not looking at it at an output at a video monitor, I mean, I have I have in the past missed some technical things because I was so focused on the performances.
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Clark
I got so into being right there with the actors that I did miss things and so did the operator, you know, just, you know, missing focus and things like that, which make me crazy. Oh, I can't. Yeah, well, I mean.
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Cullen
Even working documentary, that was kind of one of the things that we established when I was down in LA and we were shooting was that, you know, I was sort of, you know, I asked a few questions, but I was sort of doing the technical side, making sure that everything was in focus and that the lighting was, you know, even and that the sound sounded good.
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Cullen
And you were focusing on getting those interviews done and things like that. And I think it worked out so well because that way. And I mean, we completely trusted each other in that way that you weren't coming over checking shot. I wasn't, you know, involved in your interview process. I was just kind of.
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Clark
Had very great that's a great example. Systems you know it's vital because you can't do you cannot do all these things now you know we're going to go into a little bit about keeping the crew small. But the flip side of that is, is that you do have to have enough people to actually, you know, reach a certain level of competency in all these areas.
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Clark
And it's you know, and I've done, you know, and videography work, which is is definitely a different thing than making a film. Videography work is definitely different when you're shooting commercials. Industrial, obviously there are some similarities, but there are some differences. And we can, you know, talk about that a little bit. If one, for example, is this single camera stuff and I want to bring this up because, you know, it's just a practical aspect of being a filmmaker is that, you know, a lot of times when you're starting out, you've got to make ends meet and a great way to make ends meet that also helps get you experience is to do videography work wherever
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Clark
you're at, you know, shooting local commercials, industrials, employee training videos, you know, I mean, whatever it might be, right. Web content for small business owners or something in your area. And when I shoot those kind of things, I definitely like to go multi-camera, you know, because most of this stuff, a lot of this stuff is interviews and you're dealing with, you know, nonprofessional people or, you know, not they're not trained on camera personalities.
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Clark
You're often working from looser scripts, things like this. And I don't know, you know, I don't know if you've done some work in this area, you had a good time. But yeah, but I definitely like to go multi-camera there because I find that it saves your booty big time. Yeah.
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Cullen
Yeah. I mean even and that's, that's a good even in that aspect though there's, there's so many different styles of like there's this huge there's almost like this cinematic new wave coming into advertising that, that things are now exposed.
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Clark
Can you describe that a little bit? I mean, I want to be honest, I am out of the loop a little bit on this. I, I have kind of crafted a world for myself in a world where there's advertising, you know, But I have I mean, I have reduced my exposure to advertising to such an extent that I really don't know what is this new?
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Cullen
I mean, I don't really watch TV, so I'm not sure about actual TV ads, but things I've seen like, you know, sick kids here, the Childrens Hospital in Toronto.
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Clark
We've actually been there. Yeah. Yeah. So they're a wonderful place. Yeah.
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Cullen
They've just done this whole in the last year or a year and a half, this whole new advertising campaign that's like shot on anamorphic lenses like these, like crazy, like cinematic lighting, you know, everything's raised and it's really, it's the kids standing up to their, their illnesses. It's called Sick kids versus it's actually it's quite an effective ad campaign if anyone's interested in what.
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Clark
Ridley Scott directed.
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Cullen
Yeah. I mean.
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Clark
You're like, you know, might as well.
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Cullen
Although Ridley doesn't like anamorphic anymore. So but but yeah and it's this this and I the only reason I've been exposed to these things is just because some of the work that I've been doing has sort of been related and, and in that kind of that field. So it's been there's this but there is this huge like the amount of commercials these days that are shot on anamorphic is something that really is only picked up in the past maybe three years.
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Clark
And I know and then on to book in that on the other end nothing like in to get too far off track here of Herzog's class but you know it's it touches on a lot of things so why not But there's also a lot you know I know living out here in Southern California with COVID and everything, there's also a lot of almost, I would call it like DIY commercials being done where actors are shooting their own commercials in their homes.
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Clark
Mm hmm. I know that this has been done to some extent. So you've got a wide range, you know, because. Yeah, you know, obviously, you know, agencies are going to stop shooting commercials just because they can't get a crew together. Right. That's not going to stop that train. And so one of the ways they've gotten around it is to have people kind of self shoot or to, you know, remotely piece together a project.
00;18;06;05 - 00;18;14;12
Clark
But it's, you know, on a much smaller scale, sometimes with much less, quote unquote, professional equipment. So it can it can run the gamut, you know?
00;18;14;19 - 00;18;35;12
Cullen
Oh, totally, for sure. But I mean, just to just to return to the even the point about just the single cam versus multi-cam. Yeah, I, I think for me, you know, getting into like, why, why, why do I prefer one over the other when it comes to narrative film? I find that and I think that Herzog does sort of touch on this as well, and as have many other directors who prefer single cam.
00;18;36;19 - 00;18;45;01
Cullen
If I'm doing a shot, if I'm lighting a shot or I'm composing a shot, I like to pose for that shot, that camera.
00;18;45;01 - 00;19;05;06
Clark
That's no compromise, right? If you've got multiple cameras, you are inevitably compromising your mise en scene. Absolutely not to get like two missiles. And it's been a while. I don't know why that happens, but yeah, I mean, you're you're right. And I think that's one of the biggest. But it's one of the biggest drawbacks. You're kind of dividing all of your resources.
00;19;05;06 - 00;19;09;23
Cullen
I mean, even down to just the placement of a light and going, oh, well, that shadow looks off and that other stuff.
00;19;09;24 - 00;19;24;25
Clark
And you're actually outperforming it. Yeah, right. I mean, when you've got multiple point, multiple points of focus, i.e. the camera, then you're going to kind of inevitably going to you know, you're going to be dividing your your focus, your energy, you know. So absolutely.
00;19;25;02 - 00;19;42;09
Cullen
When it gets down to it, just just because it's easy or just because it's easier doesn't mean that it's better. You know, I know a lot of people who do prefer multi-cam and they go, if I'm shooting a dialog scene in there, there are benefits to it. I understand their desire to be like, Hey, if these two people are having a conversation at this table.
00;19;42;14 - 00;19;43;11
Clark
Especially if there's.
00;19;43;11 - 00;19;44;21
Cullen
Let's get the ring at the end and it.
00;19;44;24 - 00;19;52;08
Clark
Has a lot of improvization and the camera is can, can be a lifesaver in a sense. Yeah.
00;19;52;16 - 00;20;02;27
Cullen
But even even even non improvizational stuff, it's like, you know, I can see the desire of, of, you know, now we're getting both of the reactions and the performances to the same performance at the same time.
00;20;03;09 - 00;20;12;10
Clark
So, so rarely ever. I mean it's, I so rarely, you know, let me say it another way. I will so often cut up takes.
00;20;12;14 - 00;20;15;00
Cullen
Yes. I don't really cross cut a lot to that.
00;20;15;06 - 00;20;15;19
Clark
Right.
00;20;15;19 - 00;20;16;13
Cullen
That same take.
00;20;16;19 - 00;20;38;12
Clark
I can't imagine. Right. I've got, you know, so many takes within one. You know, it's within one scene when it's actually edited that I don't you know, that's not when it's scripted. It's not a big deal for me because I will I will often cut everything up anyway, because it's usually you're taking the best pieces of of different performances and having a multi-camera situation there probably wouldn't have added a lot.
00;20;38;12 - 00;20;57;21
Cullen
Yeah. And that being said too, I mean, I've never found myself in the editing room going, Damn this, this reaction doesn't matter up to this performance. Like usually actors are pretty good at getting that stuff down. So I've never had those issues that that people kind of praise multi-cam for so often. I've never really needed to rectify those.
00;20;57;21 - 00;21;15;11
Clark
But everything, you know, like we said, everything has a place. I do use it when I'm doing shooting industrials, doing interviews of, you know, people who have it or aren't used to being on camera. And so there's a lot of it's incongruity from one shot to, you know, from one take to the next. So I will do it.
00;21;15;11 - 00;21;28;24
Clark
And also, usually you're on a compressed that you're on somebody else's schedule. You have a very short period of time. And I'm often not in control of my shooting environment because I'm shooting on somebody else's location. So so there's a lot of compromises there.
00;21;28;24 - 00;21;32;06
Cullen
But shooting at other locations and. Yeah, yeah, there's Tanya.
00;21;32;16 - 00;21;53;03
Clark
Yep. So let's see where it will go. Like after this large digression here. So we were talking about video villages. Hmm. Yeah, I think just a kind of kind of maybe wrap that one up. I think so. It sounds like we both agree. I mean, I definitely prefer to be right there with the actors for reasons I just told, and it sounds like you do too.
00;21;53;03 - 00;22;02;23
Clark
And I think a good compromise is to have a monitor. They're close to you. And I do not have a wireless monitor, but God, that's got to be great.
00;22;02;23 - 00;22;07;05
Cullen
That and they're not even that. They're not really that expensive, too. I was shocked when I got one.
00;22;07;05 - 00;22;28;16
Clark
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So, yeah. Good stuff. Let's see you talking about. This is huge. This is huge. And especially, again, we're talking about probably smaller budget filmmaking, keeping the crew small. Mm. Oh, I mean, I feel like there are more reasons to do this than just budget, but.
00;22;28;25 - 00;22;38;11
Cullen
Oh, I was going to say, I think we both agree that even on a bigger budget, I the crew for me and I think Herzog says this as well is that crew. I want it to be as small as possible.
00;22;38;22 - 00;22;59;24
Clark
And I think, you know, it is interesting, You know, Herzog speaks to this in the lesson, and I have noticed this, too. And and even even with, you know, 50,000 or $100,000 budget films, you know, still very small budgets, micro budgets, but there's almost and, you know, I don't know exactly put my finger on exactly why this is.
00;22;59;24 - 00;23;24;13
Clark
I mean, I think it's like when we were kids or, you know, when we're when we're younger and we first get this inkling that we want to be filmmakers and whatever era of film that you kind of grew up in, whether it's like Spielberg or Lucas or Coppola, I don't know whoever, but you have this kind of like grand idea that you want to be this big filmmaker in command of this giant, you know, platoon of of crew and cast.
00;23;24;13 - 00;23;57;05
Clark
And, you know, we hear all these stories about, you know, like these epic films where hundreds of people were working on them. And it was, you know, and I feel like there is some kind of pull. I've noticed where there's there's this like pull for cruise to expand to get bigger. Totally Yeah. When they don't really necessarily have to be and I'm just I kind of I don't know I my only explanation for it sometimes is just that it's that it feels more professional or that it feels like a bigger production I think I mean, I.
00;23;57;05 - 00;24;08;07
Cullen
Think you just I think a lot of times people just assume that the more hands on set than the better. The faster it's going to be and the more efficient. And it's like I find the complete opposite, though. I find that to a point.
00;24;08;18 - 00;24;09;06
Clark
To a point.
00;24;09;10 - 00;24;12;25
Cullen
To a point, of course. So I wouldn't want to be doing a feature with myself and like one other guy.
00;24;12;25 - 00;24;30;21
Clark
But I mean, you do have to have your your fundamental bases covered. Yeah. And I will just and I will highlight sound here because I feel like it just it gets overlooked so much, you know? So definitely don't skimp on your your sound team. Yes. Just throw in that. They're just throwing that.
00;24;30;27 - 00;24;50;09
Cullen
Well, there's a really interesting interview on YouTube with the key grip, the lighting technician and the gaffer of Phantom Thread, which was Paul Thomas Anderson's most recent movie that came out 2017. Yeah, this is great. There's this great interview. It's like it's like 2 hours long and it just them talking about the process of making it and it's.
00;24;50;11 - 00;24;57;17
Clark
Really safe to say that's good for people because I'd like to people who are interested, I'd like to be able to point them to it. So yeah, it's a YouTube video and if you look up.
00;24;57;27 - 00;25;08;28
Cullen
If you just look up phantom thread lighting, gaffer behind the scenes, you should be able to find it. It's like, it's like a two hour kind of almost like a podcast video. But you know, video now.
00;25;08;28 - 00;25;14;10
Clark
Was this is, this isn't, this isn't like, like featurette stuff from the no.
00;25;14;11 - 00;25;17;13
Cullen
No, this is them. They did like a, like a livestream.
00;25;17;13 - 00;25;18;22
Clark
On YouTube that out. Yeah.
00;25;19;17 - 00;25;43;14
Cullen
But it's this really interesting thing is that they do talk in there about how to also you know like to keep this to the set small and they actually didn't even use a cinematographer on that movie they it was PTA Did yeah kind of a collaboration with again his lighting technician and his his key gaffer or keep dripping in gaffer and they all kind of, you know, made the lighting and the cinematographer selves.
00;25;43;24 - 00;26;11;08
Clark
You know, this is an area that I don't have a ton of experience in. And I'm just curious if if you do or maybe if anybody out there listening does, you could kind of write to us. But I you know, directors who do their own operating from a from a union guild perspective, I know there might be some challenges there, but I'm not really sure what that is or how you get you know, I just know that there have been some some issues in the past where directors have wanted to operate in that can kind of be an issue.
00;26;11;08 - 00;26;18;15
Cullen
But legally, I have no idea. I'd assume that's stuff that you can probably work out in the contract too, that like you could put stipulations in there that.
00;26;18;15 - 00;26;20;22
Clark
Negotiations with the guilds. Yeah, Yeah.
00;26;21;08 - 00;26;26;24
Cullen
Because I mean that's I've never really even thought I've never anything that I've ran a set that I've ran I've never done union.
00;26;27;02 - 00;26;27;10
Clark
Yeah.
00;26;27;25 - 00;26;44;18
Cullen
Because in Canada which is a little different than the states, you actually can't mix union and nonunion workers. If you're doing a nonunion set, you can't get anybody. Yeah, Yeah. So that's a little bit of a difference here is that you have to like if I'm doing a nonunion thing. Union workers could get in trouble for actually working on that.
00;26;45;19 - 00;26;53;13
Cullen
But no, I I'm not sure about the actual, the like stipulations in terms of of like rules around operating and things like that.
00;26;53;13 - 00;27;00;18
Clark
But suffice to say worth worth looking into for. Yes, of course. Yeah. Yeah. If that's your goals. But but I do.
00;27;00;18 - 00;27;31;15
Cullen
Think it's interesting though that again, it's one of these things where it's like you have a movie like Phantom Thread that is quite, you know, small scale in the grand scheme of things, but still larger budget, you know, multi-billion dollar movie. Absolutely. But but that they said that there were cases where there were like eight or nine people on set like that, it was so tiny and that it was really nice to it's it almost felt like you were back in like a almost like a learning session where you're like sitting there and you're just kind of it's just you and a few friends being like, Let's do this and let's figure this out.
00;27;31;15 - 00;27;37;27
Cullen
And I think, you know, that speaks to a lot of things that at least I, you know, I'm attracted to about filmmaking.
00;27;38;11 - 00;27;55;21
Clark
And and I would say, you know, it's obviously there are types of films that lend themselves to smaller crews and cast and others. Of course, it's you're going to be hard pressed to put together a marvel movie without utilizing like a thousand plus people's talents.
00;27;56;00 - 00;27;59;05
Cullen
Yeah, you're going to be hard pressed to put on a marvel movie, period. But yeah.
00;27;59;12 - 00;28;25;28
Clark
Well, for sure. But but, you know, it's, you know, one of the things I think is so vital as a director is that we talked about this in other in other episodes. Is this, you know, that you're kind of the holder of the vision, right? This this flame that is the vision. And your goal is to share that is to communicate it and not just communicate it so that people understand it, but communicate it so that people are also ignited by it.
00;28;25;28 - 00;28;50;18
Clark
Yes, they're inspired by it. And the more people that you've got on set, the harder that is to do. Yeah, it's just and this is just the nature of, you know, it's been you can only spend so much time with so many people in a day. And so if you're running a set with 200 people, you're likely not even going to know many of those people, much less, you know, be able to spend time with them to really ignite them.
00;28;50;22 - 00;29;00;07
Cullen
I mean, of course, to especially neither of us are famous, But I can imagine, you know, I heard Silver said, sorry, I was just I was just trying to be humble for myself.
00;29;00;07 - 00;29;03;00
Clark
Okay. I got you. I got. But that's good.
00;29;04;11 - 00;29;06;15
Cullen
But I've heard Spielberg sitting in a director's.
00;29;06;15 - 00;29;07;29
Clark
Chair right now. Yeah, Actually.
00;29;08;08 - 00;29;12;25
Cullen
Herzog is listening to me nodding slowly. He's right to my left. He's read, read, read there.
00;29;12;27 - 00;29;15;05
Clark
You're like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Please.
00;29;15;11 - 00;29;33;28
Cullen
I've heard. I've heard Spielberg talk about this, that there's sometimes issues where it's like he is directing on a set and the extras or, you know, some kind of technicians or something will come up to him and start trying to have conversations with him about his movie because he's or his movies, his past movies, Steven Spielberg. And it's like, Oh, what was it like to make Jaws and things like that?
00;29;34;16 - 00;29;46;27
Cullen
And, and I saw I can imagine from a from a larger filmmaker's perspective or like even like Herzog and people like that is that, that there's another reason to want to keep your set small and that's just that's just. EGGERS Limiting.
00;29;46;27 - 00;30;16;02
Clark
Distractions. Yeah, yeah. And distractions. But you're right. So you and I and many people listening here might not have that particular challenge, but, but yeah, I mean and I think it's just it's, I mean for me it you know, everybody runs a set in slightly different ways. We have different personalities of course, and you know, but even going back to my my earlier days and directing theater, I feel it's important that there be, you know, a very like a strong cohesion almost.
00;30;16;04 - 00;30;43;29
Clark
Yes. Family. Yeah. And that's how I enjoy filmmaking and that's how I personally feel like better filmmaking is made an obviously there are fantastic films made where you know, the stories of on set behavior and, you know, the conditions on set are atrocious and horrible and they're still fantastic. Films come out the other end. But I think, you know, in general those films come out fantastic in spite of not because of it.
00;30;44;01 - 00;30;44;22
Cullen
Oh, exactly.
00;30;44;26 - 00;30;54;08
Clark
Yeah. And also to, you know, look, life is short. I don't want to spend my time working on sets where where there's where it's it's not fun where people.
00;30;54;08 - 00;30;59;26
Cullen
I mean, yeah, I'm, I'm working on this these things because I like to do it. I don't, I don't know why anyone would want to work on a set.
00;31;00;13 - 00;31;20;26
Clark
In that way. Right. It's a difference between a challenge, you know, and just full on torture. But I think it's easier to, you know, to maintain a read on the on the morale of a crew and help, you know, manipulate, not manipulate, but help affect morale in a positive direction. All the all of these things are easier when you've got I mean, I even.
00;31;20;26 - 00;31;35;04
Cullen
Want to say that that too, with with like flexibility, it's much more easy to say we're changing this job, so let's do it this way. And when you don't have to go down the line of 100 people and say, okay, we need the technicians to go up on that scissor lift and change that light.
00;31;35;04 - 00;31;45;24
Clark
Right. I'll just. Transportation, right. Just changing locations is it is a nightmare if you've got, you know, more people that can fit in a couple of vans. Yeah. Everything becomes more difficult. Everything takes more time.
00;31;45;24 - 00;32;11;04
Cullen
It does. It weirdly reminds me to of the difference between working somewhere like a larger restaurant and, you know, this is a little bit of an anecdote, but a larger restaurant versus a smaller still kind of, you know, fancier in with an Asterix restaurant. But but yeah, the difference there being so immense because it's like on one hand, you've got this huge place that's basically a factory, like you're just churning stuff out.
00;32;11;11 - 00;32;27;01
Cullen
On the other hand, you're like a McDonald's. Yeah, you're still maintaining this quality, but but on the other hand, you're in a smaller place. You're you're, you're still again, it's like that family thing. Like you don't have a concern with getting someone to come help you out with something or move a table or whatever. And I think it's the same way in film.
00;32;27;01 - 00;32;36;09
Cullen
I think that you you're going to have it's just more personal on the level of like you can't really avoid anybody. So yeah, you're going to have to get along with them.
00;32;36;09 - 00;32;39;29
Clark
Which sometimes could be an issue, but hopefully not. Hopefully not.
00;32;40;03 - 00;32;42;09
Cullen
Well, that's when it comes into your hiring. That's and of.
00;32;42;09 - 00;33;03;19
Clark
Course, you know and of course, look, I think most of us it's not even a choice. You know, most of us who are in the earlier parts of their career, you know, that's obviously upper echelons. There are fewer and fewer directors who get to work with millions of dollars in budget and, you know, even have the option. So I think for most of us, that's not even a question.
00;33;03;19 - 00;33;34;05
Clark
But but, you know, feel good about the fact that even if you did have that money, this is likely the best way to work. I think, you know, one of the ways that you can cut down on some crew and and this kind of combines both the aspect of being right next to the action, being right with your actors and and not being in a video village and having a small crew is you know, Herzog talks about he really emphasizes this, doing your slates and your last looks yourself.
00;33;34;08 - 00;33;52;12
Clark
Yes, I completely agree with this. I mean, this is great advice. And I hadn't even thought about this, frankly, until I watched this master class for the first time, however many years ago. What was that? Four years ago? Five years ago. But I took this to heart and it is. I highly recommend it. Yeah, I highly recommend this.
00;33;52;12 - 00;34;33;03
Clark
And, you know, for all the reasons that he states in this lesson to be kind of and I think this is great for me the most important part of it is that and Herzog uses a great kind of you know, little tells a little story about how he can do this, about being like the last line between that, you know, between action and your your cast to really be there with them and to to have that intuitive sense to be close enough that you're intuiting their energy, their readiness for a scene where they're at and, you know, to be able to buffer them from everything, all of the chaos that's kind of going on around
00;34;33;03 - 00;34;54;21
Clark
them, which is, you know, already a challenge for an actor. I you know, you and I both have some acting experience and, you know, you're working to kind of give yourself a bubble, so to speak, to be and to maintain your emotional states in this chaotic environment that is filmmaking and that can really be a challenge. And I think it's so vital for the director.
00;34;54;29 - 00;35;15;13
Clark
It helps you strengthen your bonds with your actors and, you know, and to be there to kind of defend them, you know? And Herzog uses this great little story about how, you know, he was he could kind of tell an actor still needs a few moments and instead of, you know, making them the center of attention and saying, wait, wait, wait, everybody, you know, our actor here needs more time.
00;35;15;13 - 00;35;17;19
Cullen
They're not. You make something up. Yeah, just you almost.
00;35;17;20 - 00;35;32;23
Clark
Right says, hey, you know, no, we need to, you know, can you double check this filter or. Yeah. Okay. Let me, you know. And he goes and fiddles with something in the background or something for a minute, just, you know, just to make something up to give him a chance. Oh, yeah. That's such a wonderful idea. Oh, totally.
00;35;33;02 - 00;35;39;24
Clark
Use this kind of, you know, with with some common sense and, you know, sparingly. But you would.
00;35;40;03 - 00;35;42;27
Cullen
Just go out and do what? Every take But every take.
00;35;42;27 - 00;36;13;21
Clark
Yeah, but these things really, I think that, you know, again, at least for me and maybe because my orientation to all of this is so actor focused for me. But I feel like all of these things, you know, being right there next to the camera, next to the action, slating being that last line or that buffer between the actors in action, I feel like will really, really help endear you to your actors.
00;36;13;21 - 00;36;19;12
Clark
They help you bond with them, which I think is so key and help your actress feel safe.
00;36;19;12 - 00;36;26;25
Cullen
Yes. Yeah. Safety is a huge thing, not even just safety in terms of like physical safety, but just safe, emotionally, emotionally safe.
00;36;26;25 - 00;37;00;10
Clark
Right. It's this and it's you know, and especially I can't you know, it's obviously it's vital for any level of filmmaking, but I feel like it is such a vital aspect of filmmaking. And at some of the, you know, more and, you know, introductory levels where you're maybe working with actors with less experience under their belt and, you know, it's actors need all the help they can get in the sense that whatever you can do to make that environment a conducive one, I mean, it's it's fragile.
00;37;00;10 - 00;37;04;00
Clark
Like what an actor does is a delicate business. Well, I always.
00;37;04;00 - 00;37;11;02
Cullen
Describe it sort of as like, you know, it's like it's like a rocket launch. Like there's this huge amount of pressure when you're counting down.
00;37;11;07 - 00;37;11;20
Clark
20.
00;37;11;20 - 00;37;14;18
Cullen
And you're going down and it's like you should be the mission control.
00;37;14;24 - 00;37;15;02
Clark
Yeah.
00;37;15;12 - 00;37;20;13
Cullen
The actor should just be able to sit in that rocket and be watched. When it happens. You should be the one that's checking on.
00;37;20;13 - 00;37;42;22
Clark
All of this and checking why. Quiet, safe little capsule, you know? Yeah, I like that. I like that. I like that analogy. That's a good one. So. So I told you, you know, it's like I said, I didn't do this before I watched this lesson. But I have really grown to love this idea. What about you? Is this something that you prep before the lesson, or do you practice it at all now or kind of.
00;37;42;22 - 00;38;17;04
Cullen
I don't know. I don't. I don't usually do. Usually I'll leave the slate for the first A.D. That's, you know, because normally I don't have somebody on on script supervision or anything like that. So the first lady will do that. But I do, I think I understand and I try and go with the the idea of this that you should be like I normally after Slate and all that, I will take a moment and you know as is pretty pretty standard, take a moment to just kind of have everything relax and then we're now on my time and the actor's time.
00;38;17;04 - 00;38;28;22
Cullen
And then I say, either when you're ready or action whenever, whenever I feel appropriate. But there's this, there's this kind of, um, yeah, there's an understanding where you kind of get like one last look at the.
00;38;28;23 - 00;38;31;07
Clark
You probably have one of those like, microphones, don't you, Or what do you.
00;38;31;13 - 00;38;35;08
Cullen
I do. I don't have one electronic ones so I've got one of the old timey like, Yeah, yeah.
00;38;35;08 - 00;38;39;16
Clark
That's what I mean. Yeah. And you have a beret I'm hoping you have to break into.
00;38;39;17 - 00;38;40;04
Cullen
And ask.
00;38;40;06 - 00;38;52;18
Clark
Safari like a ascot with like a, like a safari vest that has like you're in your viewfinder. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. I just want people at home to be able to picture me. Yeah, yeah.
00;38;53;20 - 00;39;01;26
Cullen
Yeah. No, I do. I do think that it's really important that, like, again, I have I've never done slates myself unless I'm the only person that's able to do them.
00;39;02;15 - 00;39;03;18
Clark
But you're still there. But.
00;39;03;19 - 00;39;10;03
Cullen
But I, you know, I'm there and I do. I understand the sentiment of it, and I think I just, if anything, just sort of take a slightly altered approach to it.
00;39;10;12 - 00;39;33;20
Clark
Yeah. No, that's just that's completely fair. I mean, there's multiple ways to do that. You know, I think it's. Yeah, absolutely. And as part of this, Herzog talks about Eileen's, you know, sort of protecting actors. And definitely, I mean, this is, you know, again, and I think you and I a couple episodes ago talked about the importance of actually taking some acting training and doing some acting yourself.
00;39;33;20 - 00;39;40;20
Clark
And when you do this, I think you'll really realize keenly how important it is to protect or defend your actor's eyeline.
00;39;40;20 - 00;39;41;08
Cullen
Totally.
00;39;41;08 - 00;40;07;09
Clark
And of course, there you know that the Christian Bale story, of course, when that happened, that made the rounds everywhere. And I think a lot of people thought that's interesting to hear Herzog defend Christian Bale here. Obviously, they work together and Herzog is obviously fond of him. But and I don't think correct me if I'm wrong, you've ever heard of of of Christian Bale, you know, misbehaving like no, I'm not that this even is.
00;40;07;09 - 00;40;11;08
Clark
But they've never even heard of him being this way before or since. Right.
00;40;11;11 - 00;40;18;25
Cullen
I can I can sort of you know, not to say that you should be speaking to anybody the way he's speaking to them, but I do in a way empathize with.
00;40;18;25 - 00;40;19;14
Clark
Absolutely.
00;40;19;14 - 00;40;27;28
Cullen
Why you would be like, I can't imagine being in the middle of a scene as an actor or as a director or as anybody on set, and seeing somebody fiddle with a light.
00;40;28;21 - 00;40;46;13
Clark
On camera on their cell phone, you know, texting or. Yeah, right, right. In your eyeline. And, you know, just for people to kind of understand, again, I think it's important to do some acting yourself and you'll see. But again, it's you know as a director so much of your job is creating this this safe place for your actors.
00;40;46;23 - 00;41;09;00
Clark
And a big, huge part of that is protecting their eye lines. And, you know, we're going to talk about this, you know, but keeping phones and walkies away keep, you know, when you have larger, larger sets. We've talked about the importance of a smaller crew or how that can be beneficial. Well, definitely one of those ways that's beneficial is that you don't have 50 people standing around doing nothing on their cell phones right.
00;41;09;00 - 00;41;27;17
Clark
When you're shooting. It's to minimize all these distractions, to minimize all these you know, when you've got a smaller crew, everybody has something to do. Almost every. Yeah, you know, you have a large crew. You're going to have people standing around doing nothing, twiddling their thumbs. Well, in today's day and age, it's going to be that they're going to be on their phone.
00;41;27;26 - 00;41;35;14
Clark
But and that's yes, of course, if we all know that. Christian Bale, what film was he? What was it, one of the Batman films? What was what now?
00;41;35;14 - 00;41;37;12
Cullen
It was Terminator Salvation.
00;41;37;26 - 00;41;59;25
Clark
Yeah, that's right. And actually it was, Oh, man, I'm going to I'm blanking out. But it was actually a fairly famous DP who was futzing around. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Who was it? Come on, help me out. Anyway, he's got his own. He's got his own series of. Of classes online. Yes. Yeah. And I'm totally spacing out and somebody out there.
00;42;00;17 - 00;42;01;07
Cullen
Shane Hurlbut.
00;42;01;07 - 00;42;02;26
Clark
Yeah. Shane Hurlbut Now if he's got.
00;42;02;26 - 00;42;03;23
Cullen
The Hurlbut Academy.
00;42;03;23 - 00;42;12;06
Clark
Yeah. It's not, if I'm not mistaken, I think it was probably and he was fussing with some lights during a take and you know, and that's, it's.
00;42;12;10 - 00;42;30;08
Cullen
The other thing too is that a whole bunch of his is co cast and not co cast but also crew members stood up to defend Bale on and said yeah it was it was, it wasn't I mean you're on such a high pressure set, especially with the amount of like, like effects and stuff like that in a situation like that that I can understand.
00;42;30;14 - 00;42;54;15
Clark
You're like, look, you know, at the end of the day, the actor is the person who's on, on that big screen. Yeah. And if the film sucks, let's face it, the actors are going to be catching a lot of that flak. Yeah, and even further than that, look, it's when when that when in between action and cut the actor, of course, is the absolute focal point or actors are the focal point of the production.
00;42;54;25 - 00;43;19;18
Clark
And the weight of all of that is on you right then and there. I mean, that's right. That's why everybody is there. Everybody is there to make those moments between action and cut count. And if you've got other you know, and so it's all on your shoulders. And if you can't rely on your crew to give you the space to perform when you're finally called to, that's you know, that's no fun.
00;43;19;24 - 00;43;40;03
Clark
But but yeah, again, I'm like you. I wouldn't I would not suggest that anybody rant in that way. But I can certainly empathize with why he would. And for for those people listening who maybe didn't quite understand why Christian Bale was doing that. That's why. Yeah. And and so just one more reason I think to be right there.
00;43;40;18 - 00;43;57;16
Clark
If you're a at video village, if you're, you know, 50 feet away from what's from the action that's taking place, it's unlikely that you're going to be able to see that and call it out. Yeah. And so, yeah, just, you know, Herzog talks about keeping phones and walkies away, and this is something that simple and I couldn't agree more.
00;43;57;22 - 00;44;21;26
Clark
I totally more. Yeah. Yeah. And especially if you've got a small crew, it's pretty easy to do this, you know, if anybody's going to be on their phone, then they have to be X feet away or, you know, outside of the room or away from shooting. And I think this is almost a hopefully would be common sense. But not they're just phones are just terrifically distracted.
00;44;21;26 - 00;44;26;00
Clark
Anyway I could go on and on about Yeah, no doubt about how I'm kind of.
00;44;26;08 - 00;44;32;21
Cullen
I always think it's the moment the phones come out on a set or like even even if you yourself look at a phone, it sounds like it's.
00;44;32;21 - 00;44;33;07
Clark
Just it's just.
00;44;33;23 - 00;44;34;04
Cullen
Gone.
00;44;34;18 - 00;44;55;11
Clark
Something's wrong, right? It's like, okay, wait a minute. Like, I'm checking out. I got to get back into this. Where? What's going on? You know, And of course this happens, you know, we're all human. And, you know, of course these moments are going to happen. But, you know, that's a really good point. It's like you if you have the pull, like if you feel this pull to get out your phone and check your social media or something while you're on a shoot, we use that as a sign.
00;44;55;11 - 00;45;15;22
Clark
Use that as a signal to be like, Well, okay, wait a minute, I'm checking out. What's up? Do I need to like, do I need to, like, get some coffee? Am I like, do I need to, like, remember why I'm here? Do I need to, like, reignite my my passion for the story we're telling? What's going on? You know, if if I can't be interested in it right now when we're actually shooting it, how can I expect an audience to be interested in it?
00;45;15;22 - 00;45;17;12
Clark
You know, when it's done so.
00;45;17;12 - 00;45;34;03
Cullen
And I mean, I think that the interesting thing about him, too, with Herzog is the scheduling that he does of his movies. And maybe that's a way to kind of quell that idea of like, there's no downtime, so there's not even a moment's notice to pull out the phone. And that's his idea of starting to shoot within 90 minutes of the call.
00;45;34;15 - 00;45;35;18
Clark
And I love that, which.
00;45;35;18 - 00;45;44;18
Cullen
Is a great, great idea. And it's a great and that's within I mean, it's not like he it's not like if they've got half an hour to spare, they're like, Oh, okay, everyone take five.
00;45;44;18 - 00;45;47;18
Clark
Like, oh, it's starting as soon as possible.
00;45;47;18 - 00;45;50;09
Cullen
And then at latest, 90 minutes, which I think is such a great.
00;45;50;09 - 00;46;11;27
Clark
Yeah, I love this and I am going to implement this on my next shoot. Yeah, I have definitely been on shoots now, not shoots that I was directing, but shoots where I was an actor that we may not have started shooting until 3 hours after. And now it's ridiculous. I just I can't tell you what a I don't know, for lack of a better word, downer.
00;46;12;09 - 00;46;40;11
Clark
I mean, it is just, you know. Oh, you know, there's already such an amount of tedium that takes place in a shoot because this is just, you know, it's the nature of the beast sometimes, especially as an actor, where you're kind of hurry and hurry up and wait, hurry up and wait, hurry up and wait. But I think that's so much of what Herzog talks about, whether It's in his writing or, you know, here on set is about maintaining a sense of urgency.
00;46;40;11 - 00;46;55;00
Clark
And I love that idea. And so I think on my next one, we get this horror film in production and we start shooting hopefully next year. Yeah, I can't wait to try this. Yeah, no, I'm. I'm, uh.
00;46;55;02 - 00;46;59;01
Cullen
I'm going to utilize a lot of, a lot of things that are Hitchcock, Herzog says.
00;46;59;15 - 00;47;01;05
Clark
In the story, too. I know you're in.
00;47;01;05 - 00;47;04;22
Cullen
Yeah, they. The Alfred Hitchcock Masterclass.
00;47;04;22 - 00;47;06;24
Clark
But that would be if he could come back from.
00;47;06;24 - 00;47;31;17
Cullen
Yeah, Jeez, let's get some resurrection there. I mean, no, I do think that that's it's again, like I said, like I think a huge aspect of that is just again, not giving people not to say that you can't have downtime but like in that first that that first I would say three hour stretch of shooting is so vital that especially like in a morning that you really have to be like, all right, we're here, we're setting up and we're shooting.
00;47;31;17 - 00;47;41;15
Cullen
We're not we're not taking coffee breaks. We're not doing anything like that until we get through, you know, a chunk of our schedule today. And then we can we can do scheduled lunch.
00;47;41;21 - 00;48;05;02
Clark
And part of that, too, could be, you know, paid attention when you're in the process that we are in pre-production and you're working on your shoot schedules to keep in mind, you know, So start from the beginning right? Yeah. Production that, hey, you know, we want to have the cameras rolling tops, tops 90 minutes after call. So, you know, be efficient when you call people to set.
00;48;05;10 - 00;48;26;14
Clark
That's another kind of side of this that I've seen in a little more amateur filmmaking where not very much attention to detail was taken or consideration was taken for call times. And, you know, everybody in the entire film was called the set, you know, way before they were actually needed. It's just just, you know, kind of disrespectful, amateur.
00;48;26;14 - 00;48;27;08
Clark
It's a waste of people.
00;48;27;08 - 00;48;29;01
Cullen
Oh, yeah. I can't stand that stuff in.
00;48;29;02 - 00;48;49;07
Clark
By the time people get to a scene with, you know, by the time they actually start working, it's, you know, it's hard to maintain your energy sometimes. And it's just, you know, you can really have kind of a trough there. So I think all the way around it's a it's a really powerful little tool. And. Yeah, so 90 minutes.
00;48;49;17 - 00;48;51;10
Clark
Yeah. All right, man. Well.
00;48;51;26 - 00;48;53;11
Cullen
50 minutes for us. Yeah, I was going to.
00;48;53;11 - 00;49;05;20
Clark
Kind of 90 minutes. We like half. That's barely over half that. So yeah, really. And, but yeah, but I think, I think we've covered pretty much everything in that in this lesson. Colin, any last words here?
00;49;06;14 - 00;49;11;28
Cullen
Uh, Reed. Reed. Reed. Or should I say, what should I say? I should say rules.
00;49;11;28 - 00;49;14;10
Clark
Rules? Yeah.
00;49;14;10 - 00;49;23;08
Cullen
No, I think, I mean, again, I think that, that the things that Herzog say here, there are things that he has said are very interesting in terms of not this is not a very typical versus.
00;49;23;08 - 00;49;24;09
Clark
One this time. I know.
00;49;24;09 - 00;49;35;07
Cullen
Not very controversial, but but also not not rules that one would really want in that if that rules again, you think of like how to pass off a how to sandbag a light stand and things like.
00;49;35;08 - 00;49;52;29
Clark
That. Right. Right. And this is much more you know, that Herzog's masterclass as a whole is not that kind of thing. And there are no tons of places where you can get that kind of information. And those are good things to know. But really his masterclass is about is I the way I kind of describe it is it's about a philosophy of filmmaking.
00;49;53;12 - 00;50;29;04
Clark
Yeah. So yeah, so certainly if listeners here, if you haven't heard, seen or heard his masterclass at Masterclass QCOM and you're thinking about it, it is definitely more of a philosophy of filmmaking and of art as opposed to a really nuts and bolts like step by step, step by step kind of thing like that. But there are so many places where you can go and they get, get that kind of information for free or do you know other things volunteer or, you know, it's all little shoots you can go and I mean, hell, I learned a lot when I first came out here just doing background work.
00;50;29;06 - 00;50;43;14
Clark
Yeah. To be on a huge, you know, major studio set, television or film or commercial. I did all three. And you learn so much about those little nitty gritty things, but there's nowadays with YouTube and everything, my gosh, there's tons.
00;50;43;14 - 00;50;45;24
Cullen
You can see the Hurlbert Academy. Hurlbert, of course.
00;50;45;25 - 00;51;08;20
Clark
Oh, right. All right. Well, wrap it up here, everybody. I thank you for hanging out with us, We hope. Thanks so much, Ben Enjoyable. And thanks for being here. As always. A treat, especially just imagining you in your beret and your director's chair. Just fill my heart when I'm sitting right now. All right, guys. Well, until next time, where we will be.
00;51;08;20 - 00;51;15;05
Clark
What are we going to be talking about next week? I think next lesson is shooting strategy.
00;51;15;05 - 00;51;18;19
Cullen
Yeah, all of us doing strategy. So you're kind of getting into the. Yeah, the step here.
00;51;18;19 - 00;51;25;12
Clark
We are. We're like now we're get yeah, we're moving from pre-production to production. Exciting stuff. Yeah. Okay. So until then, we'll see you soon.
00;51;25;22 - 00;51;34;00
Cullen
So you guys.